Targeting Rule - Was it Targeting?

[smedindy]

I agree with the spirit and intention of the targeting rule. I think any suspension should be dealt with after the game and not automatic.

[bashbrother]

Look for these at the Monon Bell Game.

[wabndy]

Looks like we are zaprudering this.  Watch the original "live" portion of the play with the wide camera angle.  I don't think the Line Judge was reacting to Houston's post play actions.  The LJ had already committed to throw the flag - he looks down hat his flag then takes two pulls to get it out immediately at the hit.  The LJ basically had his head down when Houston was standing over the witt player. 

If you were to pause when Houston was about a 1/2 yard away from impact, I think you'd clearly come away with the impression that he was targeting.  Crown of helmet is zeroed in on the WR.  Only in that last half second does Houston twist his head to the left so that the shoulder takes the impact.  Had the LJ blinked in that instant before the hit and then heard the very loud pop - he's already decided to throw the flag before houston gets both feet planted again.  I'll give the ref a pass.  I don't know what the league office was thinking. 

If the NCAA is going to stick with this rule - It'd be an interesting discussion for officials to possibly disregard the sound of the hit.  It would seem to me that a shoulder pad hit - with multiple internal layers of hard plastic - hitting a WR's flak jacket or hip pads would make a louder sound than a helmet.

[firstdown]

Hodges uses a technique for defensive backs that is more widely seen in the NFL of the shoulder hit.  Many college dbs are not physically strong enough to stop a ball carrier using the shoulder pads and need to wrap up the ball carrier.  Hodges is both strong and fast and is able to carry out this technique effectively and safely.  As you will note in the replay, Hodges moves his head to avoid helmet contact as he has been trained to do.  I had a direct view of the play and watched him turn his body to correctly execute the stop.  There was a loud pop from the collision, but it was the sound of a shoulder pad hit.  I have watched Hodges   for all of his three year career at Wabash and I have never seen him lead with the helmet. 

By that point in the game, the refs were pretty mad at Wabash for taking umbrage at a couple of bad calls and missed calls.  The ref in question reacted to the sound and the hard hit which were executed properly.  I don't believe that any penalty was appropriate on this play.  The ejection certainly was not justified and based solely on a ref being unprofessional by being in "I'll show you mode."

Because the Monon Bell Game Bell will be televised nationally, and there will no doubt "Free Houston" tee shirts in evidence, both the inappropriate nature of the call and the lack of proper action by the NCAC to overturn the ejection, will be aired far and wide.  I dislike seeing this type of thing occur, and the NCAC still has time to undo the suspension before the game and avoid having this matter receive national, negative attention.

Finally, I understand and support the goal of the NCAA to eliminate targeting with the helmet and promote safety in the game.  This situation was neither and by improperly administering the penalty and letting it stand, and then receiving national exposure about its improper imposition will have an extremely chilling impact on officials who will be reluctant to call this penalty which it does occur for fear of getting national, adverse publicity for its misapplication.

[bashbrother]

Great post First Down.....   You verbalized much of what I was trying to write in a current post.    I will add that I also believe the NCAC is a little weak administratively and they know that DIII football is a much lower profile than Div. 1.     I am sure they look at Witt & Wabash as the town bullies beating up on the rest of the league.....

I believe they think that there is a greater risk in over-turning it than just letting it stand.   I would go as far to say that IF that specific hit happened in a BIG-10, SEC, PAC-12 conference,  that the league would have overturned it.    The replay culture in that upper divisions, has the refs, getting calls over-turned on them in real time on the field almost every game and thus,  they are used to it.

Sorry for Hitting    #FreeHouston

[Schwami]

By that point in the game, the refs were pretty mad at Wabash for taking umbrage at a couple of bad calls and missed calls.  The ref in question reacted to the sound and the hard hit which were executed properly.  I don't believe that any penalty was appropriate on this play.  The ejection certainly was not justified and based solely on a ref being unprofessional by being in "I'll show you mode."

Do we know this?  Refs are out to get Wabash?

While I disagree with the call that was made, it seems to me that questioning the motives of the refs is a bit of a stretch.  Refs make mistakes, it doesn't have to be more than that.

#FreeHouston

[wally_wabash]

Great post First Down.....   You verbalized much of what I was trying to write in a current post.    I will add that I also believe the NCAC is a little weak administratively and they know that DIII football is a much lower profile than Div. 1.     I am sure they look at Witt & Wabash as the town bullies beating up on the rest of the league.....

I believe they think that there is a greater risk in over-turning it than just letting it stand.   I would go as far to say that IF that specific hit happened in a BIG-10, SEC, PAC-12 conference,  that the league would have overturned it.    The replay culture in that upper divisions, has the refs, getting calls over-turned on them in real time on the field almost every game and thus,  they are used to it.

Sorry for Hitting    #FreeHouston

A suspension carry-over was lifted for Wittenberg's Mark Swope (he was disqualified for targeting early in the second half of their game with Wooster), so it isn't just as simple as they don't want to set a precedent of overturning all of these carry over targeting suspensions because that's an easy way to work around a stupid rule.  Clarification: the rule isn't stupid; the penalty is extraordinarily stupid. 

I would love to see the two plays and try to understand why one suspension was lifted and one was not. 

[firstdown]

Bashbro - I am always amazed how many times the officials get it right.  As we know from the NFL and DI, mistakes do occur.  Fortunately, coach's challenges and booth review help to minimize mistakes.  It is most important that fans feel that the officials do act with integrity.  When a mistake is made, it is important to correct it or the fans are left feeling that the officials are biased, unprofessional, or even more sinister conclusions.

In the Colts Texan game recently, the officials made 3 bid mistakes - 2 on 1 play.  The no call on ruffing the kicker followed by not allowing the Colts to challenge the play which was permissible.  Later, there was a play where it was ruled a fumble by the officials.  The call was then improperly overturned even thought the video evidence from the replays was not clear and convincing which is the standard by which the refs are to rule on the replay.  Fortunately, these mistakes did not change the outcome of the game.  Nonetheless, the officials later acknowledged and apologized for the mistakes.   

Either the officials or the NCAC should acknowledge the miscall and waive the suspension.  This will do a great deal to restore faith in the quality of officials.  To let it stand in the face of the evidence only reenforces the notion of a bad call and feeds mistrust of the officials.

Schwami - unless you were at the game, I disagree with you conclusion.  In the third quarter, there were several calls that were missed by the officials or were incorrect calls.  The Wabash fans acknowledged their displeasure by an increasing chorus of boos directed at the refs.  Rather than being professionals and shrugging it off, the number and severity of bad calls increased.  This demonstrated that the officials were reacting to the crowd's expressions of displeasure.  The call on Houston Hodges is but one example.  On a later play, Wabash was called for interference in the end zone.  On this play, the receiver moved prior to the snap of the ball ( a no call for illegal procedure).  Then, while there was contact in the end zone, the ball was clearly over the receivers head and out of the end zone.  Finally, when Wabash called the uncatchable nature of the pass to the attention of the official on the sidelines by waving the hand over the head, it was flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Wally - the unequal treatment of Hodges compared to Swope only makes it harder to fathom. 

If this isn't demonstrative of an "I'll show you attitude," I don't know what is.

[bashbrother]

There is no real way of knowing the intent of the officials....  I will admit officiating a NCAA football game is probably not a walk in the park....   

Even giving him/them the benefit of the doubt.    The rule was made for divisions with REAL replay.....   It is unfair to ask a DIII official without the luxury of replay to get every or even most targeting calls correct.  It is unfair to the players within DIII to impose ejections/suspensions based on  "I think I saw"

I am all for player safety.... as a former player that had three concussions in my time on the field... I get it... they suck.  But I just cannot handle a student athlete that gets a suspension totaling 1 game of an already short college playing career.

I sent this video to a friend of mine that is a current SEC Div. 1 official in Arkansas,  his response....  he probably wouldn't have called it, but he wished he had better video to look at it.   He said a video from field level would have helped.   My point.

I blame the NCAA & NCAC for not stepping up and making this right.

#FreeHouston

[firstdown]

Bashbro - well put.

Many Wabash fans are unhappy with the manner in which this has been handled.  With a national tv audience on Saturday, there will be an opportunity to express their displeasure via Free Houston tee shirts and the like. 

The Monon Bell Game is about celebrating the long and storied history of the Wabash - DePauw rivalry, and knowing that fans 100 years ago were doing the same thing and hopefully 100 years in the future they will still be enjoying the last game of the year.

Player safety is absolutely important as well.  I fear that some young player in middle school or high school won't understand the  nuances of this situation, and won't heed the warnings about the dangers of crowning or targeting.  This matter need to be resolved and behind us before Saturday.  I call on the NCAC and the NCAA to lift the suspension before Saturday and take this whole mess off the table.

[sigma one]

Preface:  I could be wrong about any of this, or some of this.  I do not think that the NCAA has any role here.  Yes, this is an NCAA rule, but they almost have certainly turned over the decision making to the conferences.  So, once the NCAC decision is made at conference level, and it has been, that's the end of it.  I believe, I think. 
     As for the tee-shirts--are we really thinking that the NCAC or the NCAA is all that concerned about national exposure of their decision?  This is a Division III football game, with a fairly large audience, but it's not the Super Bowl.  They will not be damaged; there will just be some questions about what the shirt means.  The NCAA and it's shortcomings are plastered all over Sports Center, et al, a dozen times a year for several days at a time. 
     And even if they overturn it at the 11th hour, those tee-shirts are stilll going to be in Greencastle.     
     I feel sorry for the player, his family, and all of us fans because we miss a half of HH playing both ways.  That stinks, even if it was a 50/50 call.
     Nice comment, though, about HH's strength.  He is, strong.  The Roster has him at 173lbs; he's not that.  Those of us who recall a hit he made at Wooster during the first game of his freshman year on a similar play are not surprised that he made the hit in this way.
     One last thing:  Hodges is an aggressive, smart player.  He is not a thug.  If we can't agree among us whether his hit was targeting, think of the refs in real time during a game at game speed. 
     The hit was not targeting, but it was close enough to be called that.  With benefit of replay the NCAC should have waived off the suspension.

     
     

[bashbrother]

     As for the tee-shirts--are we really thinking that the NCAC or the NCAA is all that concerned about national exposure of their decision? 

Nope, hardly....  I believe the designer and everyone else that will be wearing them... will simply be supporting a fine student athlete that is being prevented from playing by a ruling that should have been overturned.

WAF..... Depauw to Hell....  We Keep the Bell.   

[sigma one]

Yes, certainly that, bashbrother. 

[KitchenSink]

I've been a high school football official for 8 or 9 years.  NO - I don't think that hit was illegal, though I have not spent time with the college rulebook nor other college officials discussing the intent/focus/whatever of the rule.

I will only add that - as you see in many games, the officials are leaning on the side of throwing the flag and making the call for anything that looks along those lines.  "When in doubt, get the flag out"  Horse collar has gone through a similar thing - I lost track of how many times I saw a sleeve grab or a jersey/chest grab followed by a flag.  Asking the officials to judge a split second occurrence, you are going to have over-reach.  The appeal is a smart addition, but it's obviously imperfect.

[pumkinattack]

Haven't watched the video, but I generally agree with Toby's comment.

My larger problem is that the very definition of targeting implies intent and so now you are giving these officials the responsibility and authority to determine intent in a live, fast moving play (or even with instant replay).  That's dumb.  If you want to cut it out make the penalty a flag any time someone tackles in the open field (whih can include the backfield on a QB/skill guy, but exclude three guys tackling an RB within a yard or two of the LOS) without using his arms to tackle.

My same gripe as the playoff committee over the past few years.  Between the secondary/tertiary criterion and the the super secret final regional rankings. 

The system either needs to be stripped on interpretation or you have to allow much more room for determination and take the good and bad that comes with that, but the worst thing in the world is mixing the two.

Change this rule to take the interpretation out of the hands of the officials somehow.  Doesn't mean get rid of head shots, but aren't there 3-5 other rules which would both penalize somebody and give the authority to throw someone out anyway (unnecessary roughness, for example).  Why not apply those and drop this new rule altogether.