WBB: Little East

[7express]

2 atrocious performances by Keene State to open the season.  30+ point loss to Westfield State while not surprising they lost they shouldn't have lost by 30.  Now today they lose at home to Framingham State by almost 20!!  Now THAT's a bad loss!  They should rack up loss number 3 Saturday afternoon against the Monks of St. Joseph (ME) who was the preseason favorite to win the GNAC.  The question is, can the Owls keep this under 10??

[amh63]

I feel your "pain" 7!

[deiscanton]

After seeing how successful the women's basketball version of the Grinnell system has been for Westfield State the past few seasons, the Western Connecticut women's basketball coach decided to implement it starting this season for her team.  In their first game using the System, Western Connecticut lost to Eastern Nazarene by a score of 102 pts for the Lions vs 94 points for the Colonials.  WestConn plays Mitchell at noon in the consolation game of the Brandeis Invitational, but Keene State and the rest of the league will have to get used to playing against the Grinnell System at least twice in conference play.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

After seeing how successful the women's basketball version of the Grinnell system has been for Westfield State the past few seasons, the Western Connecticut women's basketball coach decided to implement it starting this season for her team.  In their first game using the System, Western Connecticut lost to Eastern Nazarene by a score of 102 pts for the Lions vs 94 points for the Colonials.  WestConn plays Mitchell at noon in the consolation game of the Brandeis Invitational, but Keene State and the rest of the league will have to get used to playing against the Grinnell System at least twice in conference play.

The System in the women's game is really a different beast from the men's side.  There are some unique quirks that sort of developed independently from what they did at GC.  Incidently, Grinnell is not adhering to the System through their first two games this year.  They're playing more like the Houston Rockets than the Grinnell we've all come to expect.

There's at least an intro to some of these changes in my column from last year - http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2016-17/system-here-to-stay

[7express]

Conference begins this season right where they left off last year......shooting themselves in the foot with incredibly poor out of league results.  As correctly predicted in this space just last night Keene State did indeed lose to St. Joes of Maine to fall on 0-3 on the year with Sandi Purcell starting the season shooting only 14-56.  As I've been saying for the last handful of years unless you have an incredible stout D (think Tufts, Amherst, maybe Whitman and or Newport) that is capable of winning multiple games in the 30's and low 40's you have got to be able to score the basketball.  And even those stout D teams can points up, that's why those are 4 of the top 10 teams in the country if not 4 of the top 5.  For a team that doesn't have many scoring threats (and even less this year after D'Analfo graduated and Vital transfered out) your top scoring threat (Purcell) has to shoot a lot better than 14-56 if you want to win.

Western sounds like they have a bit of the Grinnel system this year, and HoopsFans alma mater Eastern Nazarene isn't terrible now by any means; actually they are quite good, but it's a game the Colonials should win none-the-less.  At last check Eastern was losing at home to a terrible NESCAC team (Trinity).  About the only saving grace comes from 2 of the projected worst teams.  RIC and Plymouth are a combined 5-1, with RIC winning at an OK Manhattanville team, and Plymouth winning on the road at Magicman State University (aka Plattsburgh State). And a special shout out to Rivier for not making the conference record any worse than it already is: they are 0-3 against the conference (Plymouth, Boston, Dartmouth) and have lost by an average margin of 55 points.  Luckily for them, but unfortunately for the rest of the conference Rivier plays conference opponents the remainder of the season.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

After seeing how successful the women's basketball version of the Grinnell system has been for Westfield State the past few seasons, the Western Connecticut women's basketball coach decided to implement it starting this season for her team.  In their first game using the System, Western Connecticut lost to Eastern Nazarene by a score of 102 pts for the Lions vs 94 points for the Colonials.  WestConn plays Mitchell at noon in the consolation game of the Brandeis Invitational, but Keene State and the rest of the league will have to get used to playing against the Grinnell System at least twice in conference play.

The System in the women's game is really a different beast from the men's side.  There are some unique quirks that sort of developed independently from what they did at GC.  Incidently, Grinnell is not adhering to the System through their first two games this year.  They're playing more like the Houston Rockets than the Grinnell we've all come to expect.

There's at least an intro to some of these changes in my column from last year - http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2016-17/system-here-to-stay

To be fair.. anyone who runs The System do it their own way. There are "principals" and "basics," but everyone does it to their own team's abilities. Grinnel's is different each year one would argue and their's is different than Greenville's. While I understand what you are saying about women's teams playing it different, I don't think it is a gender thing where it is a personnel thing. I am sure if we looked at some men's and women's programs with similar talents running The System, they may look more alike.

Anyway, my point is each program that decides to use The System for offense (and defense) will run it differently as any offense runs slightly differently depending on the team.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

After seeing how successful the women's basketball version of the Grinnell system has been for Westfield State the past few seasons, the Western Connecticut women's basketball coach decided to implement it starting this season for her team.  In their first game using the System, Western Connecticut lost to Eastern Nazarene by a score of 102 pts for the Lions vs 94 points for the Colonials.  WestConn plays Mitchell at noon in the consolation game of the Brandeis Invitational, but Keene State and the rest of the league will have to get used to playing against the Grinnell System at least twice in conference play.

The System in the women's game is really a different beast from the men's side.  There are some unique quirks that sort of developed independently from what they did at GC.  Incidently, Grinnell is not adhering to the System through their first two games this year.  They're playing more like the Houston Rockets than the Grinnell we've all come to expect.

There's at least an intro to some of these changes in my column from last year - http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2016-17/system-here-to-stay

To be fair.. anyone who runs The System do it their own way. There are "principals" and "basics," but everyone does it to their own team's abilities. Grinnel's is different each year one would argue and their's is different than Greenville's. While I understand what you are saying about women's teams playing it different, I don't think it is a gender thing where it is a personnel thing. I am sure if we looked at some men's and women's programs with similar talents running The System, they may look more alike.

Anyway, my point is each program that decides to use The System for offense (and defense) will run it differently as any offense runs slightly differently depending on the team.

None of the women's coaches who run it talk about Grinnell.  They talk about Bunky Harkleroad and North Central.  I'm just reporting what the coaches talk about and the specific ways the women do it differently.

It's all interesting this year, since Grinnell doesn't seem to be running the System at all, but a new offense that Arseneault Jr is bringing in that looks a lot more like the Houston Rockets than what he played in college.  It will really be interesting to see the different variations that develop now that not everyone is sticking to the same principles in the same way.

[deiscanton]

I have been enjoying the discussion about the aspects of how Bunky Harkleroad helped current North Central women's basketball asst coach Doug Porter to adapt the Grinnell principles to create a version of "the System" for women's basketball, but I wanted to note that Western Connecticut scored a school record 128 pts in Saturday's victory over Mitchell in the consolation game of the Brandeis Invitational.  In their second game using their version of "the System", the Colonials shot 41 of 116 from the field-- 19 of 68 from 3 pt range:

http://wcsuathletics.com/sports/wbkb/2017-18/releases/20171118mlh0zo

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

What is really funny.. Ron Rohn at Muhlenberg STILL gets calls about his women's team running "The System" a decade or so after he stopped running it LOL.

[gordonmann]

Trinity ended up beating Westfield State and Eastern Conn.  Maybe they will be better this year?

[7express]

Eastern & Keene both end up finishing in last in tournaments that they host.  Yikes, not good!

[amh63]

gordonmann.....your question wrt Trinity's success is a relative one:)   This young season has had some surprises,,BUT,,,,Trinity does play in the NESCAC conference.  To date, Tufts and Amherst have been winning big and indicating that they are still the big dogs in their conference.
Oh yes, a big front court player from Glastonbury, Ct....Cam Hendricks..appears like she will be a major contributor this her soph year at Amherst.
Did you check her out in HS, 7 ?

[deiscanton]

Last night, Western Connecticut broke their own school record of 128 points set the previous game.  The new school record is now 129 points, set in a 129-63 victory over Purchase in the home opener for the Colonials.  WestConn shot 47-108 from the field, 17-61 from 3 pt range.  Albertus Magnus faces WestConn's "System" offense in the next game.

[7express]

The women's side is taking on water badly.

Last year's tourney winners Keene State are 1-5 losing 4 of their 5 games by double digits including an embarrassing 30 point loss to Endicott pre Thanksgiving.  Their lone win is over a bad 3-3 RPI team who's 3 wins have come against two division 3 teams that have combined for 1 win and a USCAA team.  USM is 0-6 but unlike Keene they have actually played a difficult schedule (their usual Maine teams in St. Joes, Bowdoin, UNE) and before their last 2 games have played them close but their last 2 they lost by an aggregate 163-94 score to St. Joes & Bowdoin.  Their only really bad loss is Bates, but it's a rivalry game so you throw the records out the window.  Smith is not horrible by any stretch, and Castleton has won at least 21 games 5 straight years (well on their way to 6 straight off to a 5-0 start) AND they will be a conference opponent next season, so tough to label that as "bad" either even at home.  Preseason #2 Eastern Connecticut has only played 2 games (how have they played 2 while USM & Keene have already played 6??) but they are 0-2 in those 2 games losing both at home, and now their next 3 games are against Amherst, Williams, and the conference opener @ RIC on Saturday.  Now even when RIC was in the toilet the last couple of seasons and the Warriors were winning league titles the Anchorwomen ALWAYS gave the Warriors problems, and with this being at the Murray Center in Providence Eastern is looking at an 0-5 start to the season.  Plymouth at 2-3 is a meh.  You expected them to beat Rivier (which they did) and you expected them to lose to UNE, Castleton, & Westfield (which they did).  They did win a true road game @ Plattsburgh, but magicman state university is 0-3 so far so that looks devalued some what.
That took care of the losing records, now let's analyze the winning records see if we've got something here (which I doubt):
RIC is the surprise so far at 5-1, but the teams they beat have only combined for 7 wins.  The best of those wins (Manhattanville at 3-1) was on a neutral court while the best team they've played overall (Roger Williams at 5-1) they lost by 12.  Even with these bad teams they are not winning going away (only won one game by more than 11 points) and still aren't scoring (have scored more than 55 points the same number of times they've been held in the 40's [twice each]).  With the schedule tightening up with conference play (as well as Emmanuel & Amherst out of conference) I don't see RIC hanging around, but they only have 3 upper classmen on the roster with only 2 having played so far.
Dartmouth & Western are both 3-1 but neither have played anyone so far.  Dartmouth plays Bowdoin on Thursday and than has the tough trip to Plymouth over the weekend before hosting Western the following Saturday.  Dartmouth's only loss is to that 5-1 RWU team, but Dartmouth had the lead with 7 seconds to play before they fouled and then gave up an offensive rebound on a missed free throw which lead to the game deciding free throws.  So far Western hasn't played anyone, but with the new offense they are averaging 118.5 points a game with the run and gun chuck it up.  The Dartmouth/Western game looks like it'll be for the top in the conference, and so far I will take the team that can actually score points.  Nobody in the conference has seen it (Eastern & Keene both played Westfield who runs it last year & Keene played Westfield again this year but that hardly counts) so until someone actually stops it, or shows they can stop it, pick the team that can score points!  I don't think any of the other 7 teams can score.  Good luck to the Owls or RIC getting to 90 points when they play Western!  Their only hope is the Colonials missing a bunch and finishing below 90 because there's no way RIC or Keene win if Western gets above 90.
The last team on the list we haven't digested is Boston at 4-1.  As usual, they've played next to no one, and really have no one of note on their schedule before New Years (since Keene, their opponent Saturday stinks) as both games against Eastern, Western & Dartmouth are on the second half portion of the schedule.  They only have 2 really toss up games left before January 6 when they play Eastern for the first time: @ MIT and @ Bridgewater State.  They should be no worse than 9-3 (and 2-0 in conference play) heading into the January 6 game.  I know this team was picked 5th in the preseason, but this might be the biggest challenger threat to Dartmouth/Western.  And Boston has a division 1 caliber big currently out with an MCL injury she suffered in high school last January, so if she gets cleared to resume basketball activities in January that would be a big boost for the Beacons.

It can change next month but my top 4 would be in order: Western, Dartmouth, Boston, Eastern.

[AllStar]

7,

Your summary is accurate.  This league is really, really down right now.  I don't see very many contenders for anything - and that is only on the regional scale, nevermind the national scale.