2014 NCAA Tournament

[pjunito]

Putting my Jayson Stark umm.. I meant Tim Kurkjian cap on....

On Friday Night, Williams made 46 free throws. On Saturday Night, Williams gave up 46 points. When is the last time (if ever) a team made as many free throws in one game of the NCAAs tournament as they gave up in another? Let alone do it in back to back nights.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'm the only one who thinks Whitewater and Williams looked the best?

Or is it that they both had relatively weak competition (when compared to the other two)?

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm the only one who thinks Whitewater and Williams looked the best?

Or is it that they both had relatively weak competition (when compared to the other two)?

Both Amherst and IWU ultimately dominated their competition (except for IWU in their opening game).

For the FF teams, 15 of 16 games by double digits.  That's gotta be rare, if not unprecedented.

[Greek Tragedy]

Not that rankings matter, but Whitewater is the top ranked team of the four, but some are probably considering Whitewater the 4th best team in the Final Four. Go Warhawks! (took my Pointer hat off and put on my WIAC hat)

[nescac1]

If you base it on the Top 25 rankings, none of the four teams faced a particularly difficult path:

Whitewater: unranked, unranked, number 16, unranked (home, home, neutral, neutral)
IWU: unranked, number 5, number 24, unranked (all at home)
Amherst: bye, unranked, unranked, unranked (all at home)
Williams: unranked, unranked, 13, 17 (home, home, neutral, road)

Now, of course, rankings aren't the end-all and be-all.  I'm guessing IWU fans would not say that St. Norbert, despite its higher ranking, was a significantly tougher opponent (if at all) than Calvin or Dickinson.  Emory, Morrisville State and Mary Washington were on major rolls.  And so on.  But this is a year when a lot of highly-ranked teams in the Final Four's path fell by the wayside, and the Cinderellas just didn't have the horses and/or remaining energy to hang with the big boys in later rounds.  So, the mismatches were not surprising, but do make it especially difficult to make judgments regarding relative level of performance heading into Salem.  What is clear is that all four teams, even before the season, were universally seen as really talented, and all of them feature, in large part, the same key players they started the year with, who are generally tourney veterans and as healthy as you could ask for at this time of year.  Salem features four heavy-hitters from power conferences, all of whom have already played numerous tough rivalry games this year and are loaded with elite upperclassmen, which should make for more entertaining and highly competitive basketball than we saw in the Elite 8 round, to put it mildly.

[Titan Q]

Not that rankings matter, but Whitewater is the top ranked team of the four, but some are probably considering Whitewater the 4th best team in the Final Four. Go Warhawks! (took my Pointer hat off and put on my WIAC hat)

For what it's worth, both D3hoops.com and Massey have UW-Whitewater as the favorite to win the national championship...

D3hoops.com Top 25 - http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2013-14/week13
#3 UW-Whitewater
#6 Illinois Wesleyan
#7 Amherst
#9 Williams

Massey - http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cb2014&sub=11620
#2 UW-Whitewater
#3 Illinois Wesleyan
#5 Amherst
#7 Williams

[hopefan]

I'm the only one who thinks Whitewater and Williams looked the best?

Or is it that they both had relatively weak competition (when compared to the other two)?

Both Amherst and IWU ultimately dominated their competition (except for IWU in their opening game).

For the FF teams, 15 of 16 games by double digits.  That's gotta be rare, if not unprecedented.

C'mom Ypsi, give that one team some credit!!!

[HOPEful]

Not that rankings matter, but Whitewater is the top ranked team of the four, but some are probably considering Whitewater the 4th best team in the Final Four. Go Warhawks! (took my Pointer hat off and put on my WIAC hat)

For what it's worth, both D3hoops.com and Massey have UW-Whitewater as the favorite to win the national championship...

D3hoops.com Top 25 - http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2013-14/week13
#3 UW-Whitewater
#6 Illinois Wesleyan
#7 Amherst
#9 Williams

Massey - http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cb2014&sub=11620
#2 UW-Whitewater
#3 Illinois Wesleyan
#5 Amherst
#7 Williams

Those numbers are all so close that "the favorite" seems like an unfair title. Is there really an "underdog" in a #2/2 v. #6/3 matchup? How about in a #7/5 v #9/7?

[Greek Tragedy]

Amherst only played 3 games, so its 14/15, right? I get your point though!

I know in the Pool C board there was a lot of discussion on the NESCAC schools and how good they really are. Tough conference but they don't play everyone twice? Weak out of conference schedule? Well, they consistently do well in the NCAAs. Are we going to start complaing about their side of their bracket always being weak now?

[nescac1]

Greek Tragedy, let's PLEASE not go there.  We've long ago exhausted every argument that can be made pro and con-NESCAC.  There's no need to revisit -- NESCAC folks will never convince some posters that NESCAC teams get a fair shake, and, trust me, those same posters will never convince NESCAC folks that they have gamed the system.  Let's just enjoy the games between four really good teams this weekend! 

[Gregory Sager]

Hope and Calvin played 5 times in 2007

2007 Hope 76, Calvin 54--GR Hall of Fame Tournament
2007 Hope 65, Calvin 62--MIAA
2007 Calvin 77, Hope 71--MIAA
2007 Calvin 78, Hope 76--MIAA Tournament
2007 Hope 80, Calvin 64--NCAA 2nd round

The home team didn't win any of these games, last game at Aurora.

That 2007 D3 tourney game at Aurora's Thornton Gym is still the only Calvin vs. Hope contest I've ever seen in person. A bunch of us CCIW types (including fellow d3boards.com posters petemcb and Titan Q) sat between the fan sections of the MIAA archrivals and dubbed ourselves "Switzerland".

I was a bit disappointed that the game turned out to be a relative yawner. I suppose that years of reading so many MIAA-room posts about the epic nailbiters played between the two teams led me to expect that every game played between Calvin and Hope was predestined to end either in a buzzer-beater or an overtime, if not both.

[Titan Q]

I know in the Pool C board there was a lot of discussion on the NESCAC schools and how good they really are. Tough conference but they don't play everyone twice? Weak out of conference schedule? Well, they consistently do well in the NCAAs. Are we going to start complaing about their side of their bracket always being weak now?

I didn't follow that Pool C board conversation very closely, but I think it was more "Is the NESCAC's path to Salem easier?", as opposed to "how good they really are."  Based on national tournament results of the last decade, I don't think anyone questions how good the top of the NESCAC is year in and year out.

[Greek Tragedy]

Greek Tragedy, let's PLEASE not go there.  We've long ago exhausted every argument that can be made pro and con-NESCAC.  There's no need to revisit -- NESCAC folks will never convince some posters that NESCAC teams get a fair shake, and, trust me, those same posters will never convince NESCAC folks that they have gamed the system.  Let's just enjoy the games between four really good teams this weekend!

I wasn't going there, nescac1. As Titan Q pointed out, it may have been the path through the NCAAs. It was more of a rhetorical question. The success of the teams from the NESCAC in the tourney proves they are as good as advertised. When they get teams consistently in the Final Four, sooner or later "they" will realize the quality of those teams. If it only happened every so often, then some may be able to point at their path to the Final Four. I wasn't saying I questioned their quality.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm the only one who thinks Whitewater and Williams looked the best?

Or is it that they both had relatively weak competition (when compared to the other two)?

Both Amherst and IWU ultimately dominated their competition (except for IWU in their opening game).

For the FF teams, 15 of 16 games by double digits.  That's gotta be rare, if not unprecedented.

C'mom Ypsi, give that one team some credit!!!

Fair enough: the ONLY team to seriously challenge any of the FF teams was Webster, of the much-maligned SLIAC conference (and Webster was not even the regular season champion ).  IWU won by one point on a foul call against Webster that some SLIAC partisans will go to their graves saying was a miscarriage of justice.  I hadn't previously seen Webster, so can't say if they played great or IWU played crappy - probably some of each.

[AndOne]

I'm the only one who thinks Whitewater and Williams looked the best?

Or is it that they both had relatively weak competition (when compared to the other two)?

Both Amherst and IWU ultimately dominated their competition (except for IWU in their opening game).

For the FF teams, 15 of 16 games by double digits.  That's gotta be rare, if not unprecedented.

If you base it on the Top 25 rankings, none of the four teams faced a particularly difficult path:

Whitewater: unranked, unranked, number 16, unranked (home, home, neutral, neutral)
IWU: unranked, number 5, number 24, unranked (all at home)
Amherst: bye, unranked, unranked, unranked (all at home)
Williams: unranked, unranked, 13, 17 (home, home, neutral, road)

Now, of course, rankings aren't the end-all and be-all.  I'm guessing IWU fans would not say that St. Norbert, despite its higher ranking, was a significantly tougher opponent (if at all) than Calvin or Dickinson.  Emory, Morrisville State and Mary Washington were on major rolls.  And so on.  But this is a year when a lot of highly-ranked teams in the Final Four's path fell by the wayside, and the Cinderellas just didn't have the horses and/or remaining energy to hang with the big boys in later rounds.  So, the mismatches were not surprising, but do make it especially difficult to make judgments regarding relative level of performance heading into Salem.  What is clear is that all four teams, even before the season, were universally seen as really talented, and all of them feature, in large part, the same key players they started the year with, who are generally tourney veterans and as healthy as you could ask for at this time of year.  Salem features four heavy-hitters from power conferences, all of whom have already played numerous tough rivalry games this year and are loaded with elite upperclassmen, which should make for more entertaining and highly competitive basketball than we saw in the Elite 8 round, to put it mildly.

Actually, with the huge advantage of having all of their tournament games to this point at home, it should be no surprise to anyone that both IWU and Amherst are in Salem. In fact, both should have been embarrassed not to have made the Final Four. Particularly Amherst who enjoyed a bye and then 3 unranked opponents. At least IWU faced 2 top 25 (5 & 24) teams, although it was obvious that St. Norbert was really nowhere near a true #5 team.

Its too bad the NCAA can't channel some of the millions and millions ($71 million profit for the 2012 fiscal year increasing year-end assets to more than $566 million according to the NCAA financial statement) in its coffers to put on a true D3 national championship rather than what amounts to just a continuation of the regular season, but with the visiting teams coming from even further away with less fan support than they do during the regular season, especially the conference portion. I guess thats why I liked last year's format that saw not just the final four, but the final 8 teams play in Salem. I realize its an unrealistic dream to run the D3 tournament like the D1 tourney. However, once the D3 version gets down to a final 16, I'd love to see the remaining teams play at neutral sites. I understand that this would present some logistical problems, and of course cost more money, but it would level the field court, and remove the tremendous advantage that is inherent in having a team play 4 home games in a supposed national tournament championship. The NCAA can't deny money is there in the vault, and they're not going to go belly up by spending a little more on the D3 serfs. If not the final 16, at least for the final 8. Seemed to work pretty well last year. JMHO.