2014 NCAA Tournament

[Gregory Sager]

Not only built like a tank, but athletic enough to dunk in traffic in addition to a good off-hand - thanks for the footage.

"Athletic" is a good word to describe him. He was a first-team d3football.com All-American at tight end as a senior as well.

[havej]

As a former D3 player I hadn't followed that much until the last 5 years or so.  I had not heard of any of the centers listed as the tops in the last 20 years so I googled Ben Strong.  Really amused by a poster "sdbrum" who went on and on in his 2008 posts on this board about how bad Joakim Noah was compared to Ben Strong after seeing both in action.  Thought it was only a matter of time before Noah would be outta the L and Strong in.  Trashed everything about Noah's game imaginable.

Wonder if Thibs realizes he should ask Gar about making this change on his current roster.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Your historical amnesia regarding Reich (2000-03 was not that long ago) is remarkable, Chuck. I mean, c'mon -- he was the four-time MVP of one of the top leagues in D3. (One of these days the UAA braintrust will wise up and rename their MVP award the Derek Reich Trophy.) He was a three-time d3hoops.com first-team All-American (Pat will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember there being any other three-time first-teamers). And when he was named to the d3hoops.com All-Decade first team, I recall nary a peep in protest from anyone about it.

Gibbs? All that guy did was put his team on his back and carried them to a national championship as a senior in 2002. (Don't know why you'd think he played more than 20 years ago; it's barely been a dozen years since he cut down the net in Salem.) He had 25 points and 25 rebounds in the championship game that year. He scored over 1,900 points and pulled down nearly 1,500 rebounds in four seasons at Otterbein. And he shot nearly 64% from the field over the course of his career, which is an insane number even for a guy who spent all of his time around the basket. And he was named as the All-Decade team's second-team center. All in all, not bad for a center who probably doesn't stand any taller than 6'1 (depends upon whom you ask).

Re: Gibbs.  I think the problem was that Ott has never even made the NCAA tourney since then (this year they hopefully bottomed out at 4-22) - it just felt like ancient history.

Re: Reich.  I confess I didn't realize just HOW good he was.  I didn't start following anyone outside the CCIW until 8-10 years ago.

[nescac1]

Strong and Gibbs were both beasts, based on the eye test it's hard to put Mayer over either of them.  (Reich I know less about, I'm embarassed to say, considering that I overlapped with him during one year while a grad student at UChicago, but his credentials are certainly impressive). 

But man, Mayer sure did post back-to-back impressive tournaments.  His stat line over 10 games in those two tourneys: 21.3 ppg, 10.5 rpb, 3.3 apg, .8 spg, 2.2 bpg, 61 percent from the field.  He was consistently excellent from game to game, and played his best, for the most part, against the toughest opponents.  And what's doubly impressive is that he did that against a slew of REALLY good big guys -- three all-Americans in Kearney, Langon, and Hannon, plus several other top-notch defensive centers / shot-blockers in David George, Victor I-won't-even-try-to-spell-his-name, and Hans Miersma, who won something like three confernece players of the year and may have been the best o fthe bunch defensively.  Williams hit very few teams without really good interior players over the past two tourneys (Mary Washington was probably the biggest exception, Mayer vs. that front line was a comical mismatch). 

What's most impressive to me is how well-rounded his game is -- how many big guys can average 3.3 assists, can shoot it out to the three point line, and can bring the ball up the floor, while still being a very powerful low post presence?  He is not the most dominant center D3 has seen in recent years, that has to be Gibbs and Strong, and as seniors, Sanborn and Whittington were both truly dominant as well.  But he is definitely the most well-rounded, and the most offensively skilled.  I at least have Mayer as the top Williams center ever, which is no small feat in itself given competition from Ben Coffin and Troy Whittington.  No disrespect to some of the solid big guys Williams will have next year, but there is no one remotely like Mayer anywhere on the Ephs' future roster, alas ...

[Gregory Sager]

Strong and Gibbs were both beasts, based on the eye test it's hard to put Mayer over either of them.  (Reich I know less about, I'm embarassed to say, considering that I overlapped with him during one year while a grad student at UChicago, but his credentials are certainly impressive).

Don't feel bad, since that puts you in the same boat as at least 98% of the U of C student population during the Reich era.

I've never encountered a campus more indifferent to intercollegiate sports -- well, at least among the schools that actually have intercollegiate sports -- than the University of Chicago. While watching Maroons games at the Ratner Center I've joked with other fans that somebody should conduct a study to see how many students walk in the front door of Regenstein Library for every student who walks into the Ratner gym to see a game. Five hundred? A thousand? Eight thousand?

[nescac1]

Good call, Greg.  I think 1000-1 is fair.  I went to one UChicago vs. Wheaton game when I was in grad school.  Both were fairly highly regarded teams at the time, I believe.  The crowd was so depressing that I never went again.  It was more fun to watch our program's flag football team, which featured a former NFL all-pro lineman and a former Big 12 QB.  Needless to say, the rest of UChicago never stood a chance ...

[Mr. Ypsi]

Revised top post players of the last 20 years:

Career Value:
  1. Derek Reich
  2. Ben Strong
  3. Jeff Gibbs

Peak Value:
  1a. Ben Strong
  1b. Jeff Gibbs
  3.  Derek Reich?

Tyler Sanborn, Mike Mayer, Troy Ruths, and Joel Kolmodin would follow, in no particular order.  (If Kolmodin had been blessed with two knees that worked, he might well have cracked the top three.)

[CardsFan]

The 5-6 guys mentioned seem pretty locked in as the top centers of the last decade. I think a top 5 would be best for a decade. Reich and Gibbs were just before I started following D3 more nationally, but their stats and accolades speak for themselves. With Ben Strong, I never saw him in person, but the vast majority of D3 players aren't scoring 50-60 points in a game against an extremely athletic D2 school (Lincoln, PA) without supreme talent.

I think Troy Ruth's is being slightly undervalued. I saw him for two years at the Final Four and he was fantastic. His talent level was exceptional and he owned the 2008 title game vs. Amherst. Ruths and Gibbs are the only ones to win titles and to be MVP of the Final Four.

For the fifth spot, I have to put Mayer above Whittington. Mayer is one of the most technically sound big men I've ever seen in D3 and his value to his team cannot be overstated. Whittington possessed the most raw athletic ability of these guys. I've never seen a D3 player jump as high and as quickly as him. I'd make Whinnington the 6th man of this five.

I think Tyler Sanborn is clearly a level below these 6 guys. Sanborn was talented, but not at the level of Ruths, Mayer, Strong, Whittington.

Just my 2 cents

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Considering I saw all of these guys play in person... here is my list:

1 - Ben Strong
2 - Jeff Gibbs
3 - Troy Ruths
4 - Michael Mayer
5 - Derek Reich
6 - Tyler Sanborn
7 - Troy Whittington

You could honestly go round and round on those guys expect in my opinion the top two guys. I almost would go 1, 2, 3a, 3b, 3c, 3d, 3e as they all have aspects of their game I love and think are better than the others.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Dave, no Joel Kolmodin?  He was third team center on the all-decade team.  (Or was he too injured in any games you saw him?)

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Yeah... he was pretty banged up in games I saw him.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Your historical amnesia regarding Reich (2000-03 was not that long ago) is remarkable, Chuck. I mean, c'mon -- he was the four-time MVP of one of the top leagues in D3. (One of these days the UAA braintrust will wise up and rename their MVP award the Derek Reich Trophy.) He was a three-time d3hoops.com first-team All-American (Pat will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember there being any other three-time first-teamers). And when he was named to the d3hoops.com All-Decade first team, I recall nary a peep in protest from anyone about it.

Gibbs? All that guy did was put his team on his back and carried them to a national championship as a senior in 2002. (Don't know why you'd think he played more than 20 years ago; it's barely been a dozen years since he cut down the net in Salem.) He had 25 points and 25 rebounds in the championship game that year. He scored over 1,900 points and pulled down nearly 1,500 rebounds in four seasons at Otterbein. And he shot nearly 64% from the field over the course of his career, which is an insane number even for a guy who spent all of his time around the basket. And he was named as the All-Decade team's second-team center. All in all, not bad for a center who probably doesn't stand any taller than 6'1 (depends upon whom you ask).

Oh, my!  A rare chance to gloat over a factual error by Greg!  Derek Reich was 'only' a two-time first-team AA (2001 and 2003 - in 2002 Jeff Gibbs knocked him to second team).  And he was first team center only in 2001 - in 2003, Joel Kolmodin was so good that Reich somehow became a forward!

[Mr. Ypsi]

I didn't study the lists carefully, but in a quick scan, I don't think there has ever been a three-time first-team AA among the men (though 8-10 two-timers, including CCIW luminaries Adam Dauksas, Kent Raymond, Steve Djurickovic, and Joel Kolmodin - apologies to anyone I missed).  Carissa Verkaik (Calvin) did it for the women, and (IF she can stay healthy and stays in d3), Sydney Moss seems inevitable for the women.  (Didn't go back far enough to see if there were others - since the women do not yet have the parity of the men, I suspect there were.)

[Mr. Ypsi]

I didn't study the lists carefully, but in a quick scan, I don't think there has ever been a three-time first-team AA among the men (though 8-10 two-timers, including CCIW luminaries Adam Dauksas, Kent Raymond, Steve Djurickovic, and Joel Kolmodin - apologies to anyone I missed).  Carissa Verkaik (Calvin) did it for the women, and (IF she can stay healthy and stays in d3), Sydney Moss seems inevitable for the women.  (Didn't go back far enough to see if there were others - since the women do not yet have the parity of the men, I suspect there were.)

Nope - no others.  Since until Carissa Verkaik there had never been a F or So on the first team, there couldn't have been a three time winner.

[ronk]

I didn't study the lists carefully, but in a quick scan, I don't think there has ever been a three-time first-team AA among the men (though 8-10 two-timers, including CCIW luminaries Adam Dauksas, Kent Raymond, Steve Djurickovic, and Joel Kolmodin - apologies to anyone I missed).  Carissa Verkaik (Calvin) did it for the women, and (IF she can stay healthy and stays in d3), Sydney Moss seems inevitable for the women.  (Didn't go back far enough to see if there were others - since the women do not yet have the parity of the men, I suspect there were.)

Nope - no others.  Since until Carissa Verkaik there had never been a F or So on the first team, there couldn't have been a three time winner.

Ronda Jo Miller Gallaudet 1998-2000