Messiah -- D1?

[D3soccerwatcher]

D3SW, I'm putting this response here so that we aren't talking about non-NESCAC things on the NESCAC thread.

You seem to like presenting some very limited data to maintain your points.  Yes 7-2 on SOG in the Messiah-Lycoming game but 32-2 overall.  Lycoming had 2 total shots total all game and reportedly played with 10 men behind the ball in Messiah's final 3rd.  Is that what you mean by "figuring out how to play Messiah"?

NCAC New England - good call on moving this discussion to this thread.

I think what often happens is coaches are too proud to completely change their system for a given game to give their team a chance to win.  Lycoming had a new coach last year and he knew defense was going to be important for his program to progress.  So he focused on that.  Also having played Messiah earlier in the season he knew he would have to defend even harder to give his team a chance to win in the conference play-offs.  I'm sure he didn't want to put 10 field players behind the ball all game, but I think he also knew that if he could hold Messiah to 5-7 shots on frame he at least would a have chance - however ugly that might look on the stat sheet.  Kudos to him.  Conversely, you have teams, who for whatever reasons, decide to go head-to-head, straight up against Messiah and end up losing big (even in the national semi-finals), instead of focusing on defending and giving themselves a chance to win in the end.  That's what I was talking about.  Does that make sense?

[PaulNewman]

Yes, that makes a lot of sense.....just not when you use that to make an argument that Messiah wasn't even a league winner and that then means something significant vis-a-vis the NESCAC, although frankly I can't even recall what point you were trying to make with demoting Messiah as a conference non-winner.

[ppn512]

I attend Messiah College and write about d3soccer for both Philly Soccer Page and D3soccer.com. Layton Shoemaker laid a key foundation to the success it has found today. He sadly passed on January 1 2013. For those who want to learn more about the Messiah program - men's and women's soccer - I highly suggest reading the book The Messiah Method.

As many pointed out, Messiah soccer won't go to d1 because the whole athletic program - 22 teams- would have to go to d1. Also, Messiah puts an equal importance on education and athletics.

[NEPAFAN]

I attend Messiah College and write about d3soccer for both Philly Soccer Page and D3soccer.com. Layton Shoemaker laid a key foundation to the success it has found today. He sadly passed on January 1 2013. For those who want to learn more about the Messiah program - men's and women's soccer - I highly suggest reading the book The Messiah Method.

As many pointed out, Messiah soccer won't go to d1 because the whole athletic program - 22 teams- would have to go to d1. Also, Messiah puts an equal importance on education and athletics.

I understand that and agree, but the idea that all of d1 doesn't place an equal importance on education and athletics is false.

[PaulNewman]

Maybe this has been covered, but is it true that Messiah would have to be D1 in all sports???

Hopkins is D1 for lacrosse only, Union and a few others for ice hockey only, etc.

[jknezek]

Maybe this has been covered, but is it true that Messiah would have to be D1 in all sports???

Hopkins is D1 for lacrosse only, Union and a few others for ice hockey only, etc.

See page 1, second post...

[PaulNewman]

OK, thanks.  I thought I vaguely remembered something like that.

Do you know what the reasoning was from the NCAA? 

[jknezek]

I'm not a big wikipedia fan, but this has a surprisingly good explanation that I could find on short notice:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_III_%28NCAA%29

See the section on DIII schools with DI programs about 1/4 of the way down the page. I know that no scholarship athlete can cross over. So if you go to Johns Hopkins to play lacrosse you can't also play football, I believe that is regardless of whether you are on scholarship for lacrosse.

[D3soccerwatcher]

Should Tufts go D1?

[KnightFalcon]

Put at least ONE star on their crest before starting the crazy talk

[lastguyoffthebench]

FW,

Found this all-decade team from the old d3soccer.net forum:   

1st team All-Decade 2000-2010
F:  Matt Bills: 2002 3rd team AA; 2-time 1st team All-Region & Conference POY ('03 & '02); 3-time 1st team All-Conf ('03-'01); T-1st in career goals (68) (likely 1st but for sr. year injury); 2nd in career points (162); T-8th in career assists (26); Record 4 straight GW goals in 2002 playoffs, including all-time neglected scorer in OT winner (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le_20gew4wQ at 4:14).

RW: Troy Sauer:  3-time All-Region ('01 -'00 1st & '02 2nd); 3 time 1st team All-Conf ('02-'00); 3rd in career assists (33); T-15th in career points (93); Unofficial leader in assists taken away under DB.

LW: Dan Wagner:  Runaway winner by 30+ votes; 2005 3rd team All-Region; 2-time All-Conf ('06 1st & '05 2nd); T-8th in career assists (26).

MF:  Hayden Woodworth: Leading vote-getter among all nominees; Messiah's 1st National POY ('02); 2-time AA (1st in '02 & 2nd in '00-injured in '01); 2-time 1st team All-Region ('02 & '00); 2000 Conference POY;  3-time 1st team All-Conf ('02, '00 & '99); 2003 4th rd pick of DC United; 1st overall pick in 2002 NISL draft by Harrisburg Heat.

MF: Geoff Pezon:  2010 National POY; 2-time 1st team AA ('10 & '09); 2009 Conference POY; 3-time 1st team All-Region & All-Conf ('09-'07); 1st in career assists (46); T-7th in career goals (54); 4th in career points (154); 20 career GW goals.

MF: Kai Kasiguran: 2007 National POY; 4-time AA (1st team: '07 & '05; 2nd team: '06 & '04); 3-time Conference POY ('07-'05); 13th in career points (97); 2008 1st rd supplemental draft pick of Chicago Fire; has own Wiki page.

RB (tie):  Jon Brubaker: 2-time All-Conference (1st in '05 & 2nd in '04); Started 70 of 72 games in the back between '03 and '05—over 3 year span, defense gave up an average of only .375 goals/game.

(tie): Kevin Schneider: Unofficial NCAA DIII leader for career minutes by field player without a goal; Messiah-record 17 SOs during sr. year; Played in every single game between '99 & '02 (96 games); played in every minute of every playoff game both fr. & sr year.

LB: Josh Mull: 2008 1st team All-Conf; 2007 2nd team All-Conf; prior to injury sr. year, had started 58 games between '06 & '08.

JD Binger:  Most votes among defenders; 2008 National POY; 2-time 1st team AA ('08 & '07); 3-time All-Region (1st in '08 & '07; 3rd in'06); 2008 Conference POY; 3-time 1st team All-Conf. ('08-'06).

Aaron Faro: 2001 3rd team AA; 2-time All-Region (1st in '01 & 2nd in '02); 2001 Conference POY; 3-time 1st team All-Conf ('02, '01 & '99); Messiah-record 17 SOs during sr. year; Likely the most versatile player of the decade.

GK: Dustin Shambach: 2-time All-Region (1st in '05 & 2nd in '06); 2-time 1st team All-Conf ('06 & '05); 1st in career shutouts & career GAA (min. 3500 MP).

Reserves (Nominees with the next ten highest vote totals listed by position)

David McClellan: 2005 National POY; 2-time 1st team AA & 1st team All-Region & 1st team All-Conf ('05 & '04);  2004 Conference POY; 9th in career goals (52) & T-8th in career points (126); Most total votes received for a non-starter.

Danny Thompson: 2010 1st team All-Conf; 9 career playoff goals; only current player voted all-decade.

Patrick Lenehan: 2007 2nd team AA; 2-time All-Region (1st in '07 & 2nd in '06); 3-time 1st team All-Conf ('07-'05); 14th in career points (94); Leading vote getter for super sub; best case for biggest shaft by not being nominated as a right winger.

Nick Thompson: 2010 2nd team AA; 3-time All-Region (1st team in '10 & '09 & 3rd team in '08);
2010 Conference POY; 4-time All-Conf (1st team in '10-'08 & 2nd team in '07); T-7th in career goals (54) & T-8th in career points (126); Messiah-record 7 career goals vs. Etown.

Dan Visser: 2007 1st team All-Region; 2-time 1st team All-Conf ('06 & '07); Best holding MF of the decade.

Matt Snavely: 2-time 1st team All-Conf ('02 & '01); Messiah-record 17 SOs during sr. year; Overcame many diseases; Versatile 1st reserve at either LW or LB.

Eric Frey: 2007 2nd team All-Conf; Only 3rd place positional nominee to receive double digit votes.

Brown Vincent: 2003 2nd team AA & 1st team All-Region; 2-time All-Conf (1st in '03 & 2nd in '02).
Andy Rosamilia: 2006 2nd team All-Conf; 1 of only 2 Messiah players with 4 rings (B. Faro).

Aaron Schwartz:  Heart & soul of '98-'01 squads.  Played majority of games during first championship season in 2000; beat out classmate & 2001 1st team AA Chris Boyles by 1 vote. 

[Flying Weasel]

I remember this list and discussion.  I wasn't in the country to see Josh Mull play, so I'm biased in favor of Matt Snavely at LB.  Imagine DMac (David McClellan) as a reserve!  Wow!  And just think about the current graduating class and how they would shake up the line-up.  Jack Thompson pushing Dan Wagner out?  Payne's gotta get in the starting line-up, right?  Or just a reserve?  Is there any room for Ramirez?  And where does Carter Robbions rank?  Does he unseat Faro in the starting line-up or only gets a spot on the bench?

[lastguyoffthebench]

I agree on Snavely as I have said previously on this board.

I was about to post almost the identical here.   Wags bumped by JT or is that a tie?  Payne can't crack that mid of Kai, Hayden, Pezon so I would have to bump out Sauer.   Robbins for Faro baaarely.

I also think Boyles the master of the drop kick was the best GK.


As far as 2010 to 2015

FW:  Wood
RW:  Kovach (Brandt to eventually take his spot)
LW:  JT
MF:  Payne
MF:  Myer
MF:  Ramirez
LB:   Kremers
CB:   Kyne
CB:   Robbins
RB:   Frey
GK:  West

[lastguyoffthebench]

My team would be:


   JT             Bills              Payne       
     
Pezon         Hayden           Kai
     
Snavely Robbins Binger Brubaker   (with Binger pressing fwd)

                 Boyles

[Gregory Sager]

This is the first time I've ever read this room. Wow, the first page is practically jknezek's Greatest Hits. That was some serious knowledge-dispensing on his part regarding D3 rules and philosophy.