Liberty League

[jknezek]

Hamilton does not and will not regret affiliating with the NESCAC schools. The image cache is worth more than any athletic struggles.

[StatesSoccerFan]

My feeling, but just judging off recent teams over the past few seasons and I'll use these teams because they have all been recent LL champs but Vassar, Hobart and SLU would finish somewhere similar to where Hamilton and Bowdoin finished this season 7th-8th range but ahead of the usual bottom 3 (Bates, Colby and Trinity). Just based on recent teams don't think they would finish with those top 6 NESCAC teams over a regular season. From SUNYAC I do think Cortland and Oneonta would be able to finish somewhere in that 3rd to 6th range in that league standings.

[College Soccer Observer]

I think Oneonta would struggle to finish in the top half.  Since 2019, they beat Hamilton in 2019, Lost to Hamilton and Middlebury (NCAA) in 2021, beat Hamilton, beat Tufts (NCAA), lost to Bowdoin (NCAA) in 2022, tied Hamilton in 2023, tied Hamilton in 2024. 

Cortland lost to Amherst (NCAA) in 2021, lost to Middlebury in 2023 (NCAA), lost to Williams and has no wins against NESCAC teams.  They are good programs, but I cannot see them doing better than 5th or 6th. 

[stlawus]

Not that I necessarily disagree, but Cortland never played those teams at home.

[PaulNewman]

If NPI going forward resembles what we got this year, then 5th or 6th in NESCAC will be solidly in the mix year in and year out.  This year's 6th seed may well win the national title.  Based on performance the past half-decade, Cortland and Oneonta probably would slot in somewhere between the 4-8 range, as high as 4th in their best years and so on.  But even if they usually landed at the lower end of that range, what would that really prove?  Did I dream that Buff St knocked out Tufts?  And Buff St typically has not been in the top 2-3 in SUNYAC.

These arguments remind me of the GOAT debates that are obsessions with sports talk radio, ESPN, apparently millions of sports fans, etc, etc.  What a massive waste of time in our society.  Anyone not deemed #1 looks like a failure.  Putting a number on Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Bob Cousy, Dan Marino, Gayle Sayers, Roger Staubach, Bo Jackson, Pete Sampras, etc, etc just seems so silly...and distorting and demeaning.

Beyond that, these comparisons made entail several logic fails.  SUNYAC are all state schools.  They in general do not have access to the massive New England prep (and similar nationally) machine flooded with talented athletes who for the most part have had substantial advantages in our pay-for-play system.  They also would never be part of NESCAC, but if they were, their status and access would change.  Same with trying to do hypotheticals with how very good to elite non-NESCAC schools would do in NESCAC. 

If you put any of W&L, Kenyon, Denison, Dickinson, Haverford, Carleton, GAC, Trinity, CMS, etc (just to name a few), my guess is that the best among those would be even better and those that struggle more would be better. 

Like, why?  Why are we doing this?

[SKUD]

^ amen PN!  and happy Thanksgiving!

[Ejay]

We're doing this for fun and entertainment.  It's an interesting conversation to consider how W&L would do in the NESCAC, just as it's interesting to have a weekly pool of 10 games and try to predict who will win and by what score.

[MunnyTim]

Well, as a point of evidence, W&L just handled Williams, who finished 4th in the NESCAC this year.  They took the '21 Conn team (regular season champs and losers of the NESCAC final to Tufts) to OT in the final four in Greensboro.

Zero doubt that W&L would be a consistent top half NESCAC team and when the right mix/right luck came along, NESCAC semis and finals would be in Lexington.

[Another Mom]

Also beat Tufts last year in regular time during the ncaa tournament.

That said, its style is different from a lot of NESCAC teams, so it's a little unclear to me.

I think we can say they are all strong teams.

[PaulNewman]

Lol...OK...let's project Tufts moving  to the NEWMAC. First every year, or the change might impact what Tufts has had going the past decade? Williams to the WIAC? What happens? Midd to the SUNYAC?  Bates in the GNAC?

[EnmoreCat]

Lol...OK...let's project Tufts moving  to the NEWMAC. First every year, or the change might impact what Tufts has had going the past decade? Williams to the WIAC? What happens? Midd to the SUNYAC?  Bates in the GNAC?

We have the technology!

[paclassic89]

This is what AI has to say

Based on recent historical data through early 2024, Washington and Lee has indeed been very strong in D3 soccer, regularly making deep runs in the NCAA tournament and competing well against top-25 opponents. The NESCAC, with powerhouses like Tufts, Amherst, and Connecticut College, is generally considered the deepest D3 conference.

Looking at common opponents and NCAA tournament results, Washington and Lee has shown they can compete with NESCAC-level competition. For example, they've had competitive matches with teams like Williams and Amherst in NCAA tournament play. Their style of play, emphasizing possession and technical skill, would translate well to NESCAC competition.

However, one big challenge would be adapting to the grueling NESCAC schedule - playing multiple top-25 caliber teams every week is different from the ODAC where there's more variance in quality between opponents.
Given their program strength and resources, I'd estimate Washington and Lee would likely finish in the top half of the NESCAC most years - probably in the 3rd to 5th place range. They'd be competitive with the top teams but might find it challenging to consistently finish at the very top given the week-to-week difficulty.

But I want to acknowledge that this is quite speculative - conference strength can vary significantly year to year, and hypothetical matchups are very difficult to predict accurately.

[Saint4life]

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/2024-NCAA-D3-Men-All-Region-Teams-112623.pdf


All Region Teams are out! Interesting to note George Charalambous who didn't receive any love in All-LL voting gets second team All Region and is the highest voted LL GK and DPOY Devall doesn't get any All Region recognition. We've seen this last year with Second Teamers making the All Region Team and First Teamers are left out, most notably Mogul who repeats as All Region Second Team.

I understand that LL Voting is based of votes and All Region/America is a formula based on votes, own coaches ranking (not for GKs), appearances, and record of the team, as well as accounting for the entire season.

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/2024-United-Soccer-Coaches-Senior-College-All-America-Voting-Procedures-Coaches-3.pdf

It's interesting how two years in the row there has been significant changes between LL and All Region which I can't remember prior to that has ever happened this significantly.

 

[stlawus]

If you think that's weird just look at the d3hoops.com all region selections every year. I remember SLU having a literal All American not get selected for d3hoops 1st or 2nd team all East Region.   These soccer disparities are small potatoes in comparison.

[kevdog]

What is even more interesting is the the player of the year Henry Brown is not even on any of the list.