Liberty League

[stlawus]

Crazy turn of events in the SLU-Geneseo game.  Geneseo went up 1-0 off a corner early in the 2nd half, and then with 17 minutes left SLU equalizes.  Less than a minute later SLU gets breakaway but is yanked down by the keeper who gets a red.  SLU converts the PK.

[stlawus]

Final in Geneseo is SLU 4, Geneseo 1.  Toshack rested a few key players last night against St. John Fisher and it paid off today.  All 4 goals coming in the last 17 minutes by players that didn't play last night. 

[deutschfan]

So after three weekends, two undefeated LL teams--SLU and Vassar.  Both teams are doing it with defense and well-balanced scoring, as well as demonstrating an ability to come from behind.  For SLU this is no surprise.  Vassar has plugged a bunch of holes with some excellent new talent.  Neither has played a particularly difficult schedule, and the Plattsburg and Oneonta games this week will tell more about the teams and the likelihood that they remain at the top of the table at the end of the league season. 

[Saint of Old]

Vassar and SLU seem set for the LL playoff.
I might need to revise my prediction for the league finishes after the weekend if Clarkson continues their good play.

Disappointing so far from Hobart and Skidmore, but I still feel like they will be fighting for a spot in the end.

[Saint of Old]

Big Big win for Hobart to get off the mark with a good come from behind win over Potsdam Bears. Potsdam is very impressive and will have a good year despite suffering their forst loss.

Oneonta dealt with RPI.
RPI will rebound, I still see them making the league championship.

Clarkson loses to a VERY GOOD Cortland side, and perhaps will now come back to earth a bit.

They have a good keeper, and I might have to re-evaluate leaving them off the league playoffs in early season prediction.
They will atleast be on the bubble, perhaps taking up a spot traditionally belonging to Skidmore.

Game of the week has to be Cortland v. SLU on Saturday.
Should be a very even game, maybe for top spot in the East come next standings.

[Ommadawn]

SLU and Oswego 0-0 at the half on what appears to be a beautiful afternoon in Canton, NY.  A few chances for both sides. The Saints seem to be resting a bunch of starters (Augustine, Bunton, Suitor, etc.) in anticipation of tomorrow's tilt with Cortland.  SLU had a couple of shaky passes in back, but Oswego could not capitalize.  I look for SLU to flip the switch and get it going in the second half.

[stlawus]

Very late PK conversion for SLU with 2 minutes left.  Oswego had a great chance with a minute left but Schierbeek came up big with a save on a corner.  As mentioned above, Tosh rested a lot of starters.  This strategy paid off last weekend as well.  Rather grind out an ugly win early in the season in exchange for a deep, well rested bench come playoff time.  Should be a great game tomorrow!

[deutschfan]

Am worried that LL teams are playing themselves into one dance spot--again.  SLU is consistent, not winning big but winning is enough.  Hobart, RPI and Skidmore have all floundered and unless they get the AQ are pretty much done.  Clarkson has lost a couple heartbreakers that also take them out of at-large contention.  Vassar came back to the pack giving up 4 in the second half of what could have been a defining tilt against Oneonta.  Yes Bard is undefeated but against what competition? 

[Ommadawn]

Am worried that LL teams are playing themselves into one dance spot--again. 

I could not agree more with your assessment, deutschfan.  After perusing the results yesterday, I was left with the same impression.  I think that as is often the case, the only way that the LL will get two teams in the NCAA tournament is if a team other than SLU wins the league tournament.  At this point, I think the chances of that happening are far less than 50%.

On a related matter, Hobart pulled out a hard-earned 2-2 tie with Geneseo after going a man down on a red card and a goal down shortly thereafter.  The Statesmen actually rallied to take a 2-1 lead after falling in a 1-0 hole, but were not able to prevent their full-sided opponent from equalizing.

[Mr.Right]

SLU and Oswego 0-0 at the half on what appears to be a beautiful afternoon in Canton, NY.  A few chances for both sides. The Saints seem to be resting a bunch of starters (Augustine, Bunton, Suitor, etc.) in anticipation of tomorrow's tilt with Cortland.  SLU had a couple of shaky passes in back, but Oswego could not capitalize.  I look for SLU to flip the switch and get it going in the second half.

I just do not agree with this approach by SLU's coach. You never rest starters before the game begins against anyone. That alone is sending a message to your team that you are playing a weak opponent and they might as well take the day off. Always start your starters and let them get a quick lead then you REST them. I believe he got burned doing this last year as well and he will get burned again doing it.

[stlawus]

SLU and Oswego 0-0 at the half on what appears to be a beautiful afternoon in Canton, NY.  A few chances for both sides. The Saints seem to be resting a bunch of starters (Augustine, Bunton, Suitor, etc.) in anticipation of tomorrow's tilt with Cortland.  SLU had a couple of shaky passes in back, but Oswego could not capitalize.  I look for SLU to flip the switch and get it going in the second half.

I just do not agree with this approach by SLU's coach. You never rest starters before the game begins against anyone. That alone is sending a message to your team that you are playing a weak opponent and they might as well take the day off. Always start your starters and let them get a quick lead then you REST them. I believe he got burned doing this last year as well and he will get burned again doing it.

Normally I would agree, as I felt the same last year.  But in recent years SLU has been bitten by the injury bug pretty hard.  The last 3 seasons have seen players drop like flies.  I think this approach is two fold: keep players fresh for conference play and also reduce risk of injury come tournament time.  Last year Ryan Grant went down early in the season and didn't return until half way through.  Dede suffered an injury in the LL tourney and was largely ineffective throughout the NCAA tournament.  Let's also not forget that 2014's leading scorer, Rob Brandell, missed the entire season due to a broken leg. 

[Sandy]

SLU and Oswego 0-0 at the half on what appears to be a beautiful afternoon in Canton, NY.  A few chances for both sides. The Saints seem to be resting a bunch of starters (Augustine, Bunton, Suitor, etc.) in anticipation of tomorrow's tilt with Cortland.  SLU had a couple of shaky passes in back, but Oswego could not capitalize.  I look for SLU to flip the switch and get it going in the second half.

I just do not agree with this approach by SLU's coach. You never rest starters before the game begins against anyone. That alone is sending a message to your team that you are playing a weak opponent and they might as well take the day off. Always start your starters and let them get a quick lead then you REST them. I believe he got burned doing this last year as well and he will get burned again doing it.

Normally I would agree, as I felt the same last year.  But in recent years SLU has been bitten by the injury bug pretty hard.  The last 3 seasons have seen players drop like flies.  I think this approach is two fold: keep players fresh for conference play and also reduce risk of injury come tournament time.  Last year Ryan Grant went down early in the season and didn't return until half way through.  Dede suffered an injury in the LL tourney and was largely ineffective throughout the NCAA tournament.  Let's also not forget that 2014's leading scorer, Rob Brandell, missed the entire season due to a broken leg.

Or way back in 2011 when 3 of our starting forwards had torn ACLs. Or in 2012 when DeMello got an injury which left him out of the NCAAs.

[Saint of Old]

In Coach Tosh we trust

I do understand the frustration of not playing your "starters".
I think that in order to win a championship in this day and age, and maybe forever, a team needs close to 20 starters.
Each and every person on a roster must be able to contribute at a high level to be very successful at this level.

I do think the goal of the Saints is one thing only:
Win the Conference and then go from there.
If this is in the back of your head you play the season very differently.

Added bonus is a team is more difficult to scout if personnel can interchange at the discretion of the Coach.

[Part_Bart]

It is hard to get data on injuries and players across D3 in order to get a sense of the prevalence.
I'm familiar with https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/NCAA_M_Soccer_Injuries_WEB.pdf (and other sources like http://www.drdavidgeier.com/mens-soccer-injuries-ncaa/ and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3418955/).

These make it seem as if injuries are relatively rare (if there are ~8 injuries per 1000, and the average soccer squad has 33 people rostered, that would be one injury on every fourth team, or one major injury every four years per team). The data from St. Lawrence reported here would be much greater than the national average.  But it also resonates with what I'm seeing.

For the past decade we've been working with several dozen kids heading into college soccer. With many now graduated and others entering or in the midst of their college careers, my observation is that the prevalence of injury is higher than reported (every one of the kids we have helped has missed playing time with an injury, most from in-game events).  Using data from four teams where I have the most familiarity, they are averaging six injuries each season (concussions, lower-leg (knee/ankle) and some arm and shoulder damage (from falling or being tangled up).  On each of the teams, at least two kids each year seem to be missing most or all of the season for these injuries. 

it _seems_ that many of the private colleges are carrying larger rosters (in the low-to-mid 30's) than a decade back (when I first started paying more attention, and team sizes were high 20's up to 30). Not sure if this is a trend, or just that I am fitting facts to my belief system. But, one reason for doing so is to accommodate more injuries.

I saw posted in another thread (believe it was the National Perspective) an analysis of yellow and red cards earned by various teams, with the implication that aggressive behavior is on the rise (and cards are a proxy for this) -- and that it may be helping teams to win.  Readers on this thread are no stranger to the level of contact in both LL and SUNYAC games (and even more when the game brings together both an LL and a SUNYAC team).  Increased aggression is related to more contact (and more chances to be injured)....

Given the competitive nature of the LL (and SUNYAC), and that injuries are twice as likely to occur in games, it may be prudent to limit the potential for damage.  So, I'd be ok with coaches protecting players even as they build bench depth (and make it harder to be scouted).
Not so much a commentary on the opponent as a commentary on the changing nature of the game.

[1970s NESCAC Player]

It is hard to get data on injuries and players across D3 in order to get a sense of the prevalence.
I'm familiar with https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/NCAA_M_Soccer_Injuries_WEB.pdf (and other sources like http://www.drdavidgeier.com/mens-soccer-injuries-ncaa/ and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3418955/).

These make it seem as if injuries are relatively rare (if there are ~8 injuries per 1000, and the average soccer squad has 33 people rostered, that would be one injury on every fourth team, or one major injury every four years per team). The data from St. Lawrence reported here would be much greater than the national average.  But it also resonates with what I'm seeing.

For the past decade we've been working with several dozen kids heading into college soccer. With many now graduated and others entering or in the midst of their college careers, my observation is that the prevalence of injury is higher than reported (every one of the kids we have helped has missed playing time with an injury, most from in-game events).  Using data from four teams where I have the most familiarity, they are averaging six injuries each season (concussions, lower-leg (knee/ankle) and some arm and shoulder damage (from falling or being tangled up).  On each of the teams, at least two kids each year seem to be missing most or all of the season for these injuries. 

it _seems_ that many of the private colleges are carrying larger rosters (in the low-to-mid 30's) than a decade back (when I first started paying more attention, and team sizes were high 20's up to 30). Not sure if this is a trend, or just that I am fitting facts to my belief system. But, one reason for doing so is to accommodate more injuries.

I saw posted in another thread (believe it was the National Perspective) an analysis of yellow and red cards earned by various teams, with the implication that aggressive behavior is on the rise (and cards are a proxy for this) -- and that it may be helping teams to win.  Readers on this thread are no stranger to the level of contact in both LL and SUNYAC games (and even more when the game brings together both an LL and a SUNYAC team).  Increased aggression is related to more contact (and more chances to be injured)....

Given the competitive nature of the LL (and SUNYAC), and that injuries are twice as likely to occur in games, it may be prudent to limit the potential for damage.  So, I'd be ok with coaches protecting players even as they build bench depth (and make it harder to be scouted).
Not so much a commentary on the opponent as a commentary on the changing nature of the game.

College soccer is not quite the NFL, but every player who gets regular playing time gets injured during the season.  For some, that means only requiring treatment (as opposed to missing playing time), but injuries are a fact of life.

Other factors that you have not considered to explain larger roster sizes are (i) the elimination of JV or Freshman teams; and (ii) the desire to have at least 22 players present every day at practice (due to class and laboratory obligations).  With respect to the loss of JV or Freshman programs, coaches naturally will keep larger rosters, so as not to preclude the continued development of younger players who might otherwise miss an entire season or cease playing competitively altogether if varsity rosters were limited to 22-25 players.