Liberty League

[Saint of Old]

Notes on the scorecard after second week where no Liberty League team has yet to win a statement game (in order of last year's finish): 1) Vassar--teams have learned to double Mrlik and let the rest of the team beat them, in two games the other Vassar X could not; 2) Skidmore--for second year in a row probably has the best player in the league (sorry Saint but I did note that your vote for best player received honor roll recognition for a meaningless assist in a blowout win after a 3-0 beat down); 3) Hobart--most likely the best team in the country without a win after outplaying Brandeis in a loss even at a man down and tying Rochester; 4) RPI--Mr. Right was right, managed to get a goal against run of play against Oneonta but was outclassed with no real dangerous player; 5) SLU--still needs help on both ends despite leading the league in goals scored; 6) Union--could Mr. Right use his magic and calculate an expected strength of schedule?; 7) Clarkson--its long absence from the playoffs is soon to be over; 8) RIT--still vacillates between mediocre and weak; 9) Bard--trouncing by very average Mt. St. Mary's team is indicative of another year looking in from the outside; and Newbie) Ithaca--was impressed by their defense and rate of play in the Brockport game reminding me of the last NYU team that won the UAA based on the strength of its defense and giving fair warning to the league that they are here to play.

Great analysis.
I think Saints lead the league in goals given up as well.
This week will tell us a lot about all the teams.

I agree that Hobart is very strong, a good tie against UofR is a sign of things to come.

[Mr.Right]

And that should do it.  Oneonta goes up 2-0 on a set piece.  This is what happens when you have no final third product and squander chance after chance.  Can't remember the last time it took 2 weekends for this program to get its first win.

Have they switched GK's yet? How about the backline? You would know better than I but MOST coaches would start to tap on the panic button and move players around. Absolutely making sure your most athletic / skilled / tough players were in the spine. I only saw the Wheaton game but the GK'ing in that game was not good. The defending certainly did not help either as I thought it was non-existent in that game. i will say they dominated Wheaton the first 20 minutes of that game but could not finish. They obviously put 5 away so they were finishing in that game but Wheaton's defense was just as horrid in that game. I assume you played for Durocher? What would he do?

Panic may just have been averter Mr. Right, but not in my opinion.
You make some great points there.
Having played, I wont ever say any player should be switched out, but I will say, players should get a chance to grab an opportunity if the guys infront of them are not performing as they should.

What would Durocher do?

I think that Durocher would have this group making a deep run in the NCAA with the talent on the team.
Coach Tosh may still be able to do that as well.

What Durocher did better than any coach I ever had was that he always made sure each and every player on the team knew their role on the team. His secret was that he knew each of his players really well even on a personal level.

Besides a few of the boyz, I'm not convinced each player on the Saints know their role inside out at this point...

I still have faith in Tosh, he is a great Coach, he knows more than anyone the type of pressure that comes from Coaching SLU and I am sure he went in with eyes wide open.

The team has to start playing better.
If I am not mistaken, they have outshot all 4 opponents despite having a losing record.
Someone must step up to be the consistent scorer the team needs.
Back to back wins next week and the season looks a whole lot different.

For stretches of the game yesterday, I actually thought the boys dominated Oneonta, but they were dominated on the scoreboard where it counts. Finding a scoring threat (Hope you see this #9, #14, #22) will help solve that problem.

Finally the team must tighten up in the back.
Giving up 3 goals or more each in the first 3 games just wont cut it.
Normally at SLU, players who don't play defense don't play.
Team gave up 4 goals total  in 2000 and 2011 for the entire season and gave up 5 to Wheaton last weekend.

Apologies for the rant from a has been, but improvement is needed and it falls on the shoulders of the team to give 100% and represent the crest.

These 4 years go faster than you think.

Interesting response Saint of Old...usually you are very measured, optimistic and positive even in the worst of situations(i.e SLU losing at home to Amherst in the 2014 NCAA 2nd Round and all the shenanigans with the Amherst bench etc in that game). I gathered from your response that you feel some of the players and coaches are not on the same page. While I am not only intrigued by your response including stating that Durocher would have had this talented SLU side whipped into shape, which is either a confirmation of how good a coach Durocher was or a definite slight on the current coach or BOTH but am more curious to know WHY you feel that the players do not know their roles on this side or more matter of factly how do you know this?

[Mr.Right]

Notes on the scorecard after second week where no Liberty League team has yet to win a statement game (in order of last year's finish): 1) Vassar--teams have learned to double Mrlik and let the rest of the team beat them, in two games the other Vassar X could not; 2) Skidmore--for second year in a row probably has the best player in the league (sorry Saint but I did note that your vote for best player received honor roll recognition for a meaningless assist in a blowout win after a 3-0 beat down); 3) Hobart--most likely the best team in the country without a win after outplaying Brandeis in a loss even at a man down and tying Rochester; 4) RPI--Mr. Right was right, managed to get a goal against run of play against Oneonta but was outclassed with no real dangerous player; 5) SLU--still needs help on both ends despite leading the league in goals scored; 6) Union--could Mr. Right use his magic and calculate an expected strength of schedule?; 7) Clarkson--its long absence from the playoffs is soon to be over; 8) RIT--still vacillates between mediocre and weak; 9) Bard--trouncing by very average Mt. St. Mary's team is indicative of another year looking in from the outside; and Newbie) Ithaca--was impressed by their defense and rate of play in the Brockport game reminding me of the last NYU team that won the UAA based on the strength of its defense and giving fair warning to the league that they are here to play.

Yea RPI and Hobart have each been such an enigma in totally different ways. Somehow someway RPI continues to have successful season after successful season without the likes of a superior player that can take over a game. Just 11 guys working hard every game. I will say they might have some of the best luck in D3 as I have never seen a team the past few years get as many results as they do against better competition with 2-3 SOG. On the flip, I have never seen a team underachieve year after year like Hobart does especially out of conference. I know Shaun Griffin is a fantastic coach and has been for years BUT for some reason his Hobart teams just do not get results when they need them. They either come out flat or sometimes I feel they are not ready to play and are not focused for 90 minutes. In fact they remind me a ton of Pilger's sides at Trinity. Talent is there but they could be so much more if the focus was also there. In fact, Hobart has such an advantage in admissions over most LL teams and has such a great campus and school that they SHOULD be a Top 20 team consistently in D3 IMHO.

I have been a big fan of Skidmore's the past couple years ever since Ron McEachen starting recruiting some Jamaicans to Skidmore and playing some dynamic futbol but also being very disciplined defensively like his teams at Univ of Vermont used to be. Unfortunately for him he was forced to retire because I think he could have gotten even more out of these teams than they have. Still they have played well the past few years and the current coach is a big part of this but the next step is the NCAA's and I am not sure this team has the depth to get there. We will see.

On the Flip, I have never enjoyed watching Vassar play under Jennings but you cannot argue with his results. While we all poke fun at Guinn at Union for his ridiculous scheduling it does his team no favors when league play starts. He has a good young team this year and will get some results for sure.

Wide open year and will be fun to watch the LL this year especially with the expanded playoffs and i love starting my weekend off with the Friday afternoon first half of the back to back's.

[Saint of Old]

And that should do it.  Oneonta goes up 2-0 on a set piece.  This is what happens when you have no final third product and squander chance after chance.  Can't remember the last time it took 2 weekends for this program to get its first win.

Have they switched GK's yet? How about the backline? You would know better than I but MOST coaches would start to tap on the panic button and move players around. Absolutely making sure your most athletic / skilled / tough players were in the spine. I only saw the Wheaton game but the GK'ing in that game was not good. The defending certainly did not help either as I thought it was non-existent in that game. i will say they dominated Wheaton the first 20 minutes of that game but could not finish. They obviously put 5 away so they were finishing in that game but Wheaton's defense was just as horrid in that game. I assume you played for Durocher? What would he do?

Panic may just have been averter Mr. Right, but not in my opinion.
You make some great points there.
Having played, I wont ever say any player should be switched out, but I will say, players should get a chance to grab an opportunity if the guys infront of them are not performing as they should.

What would Durocher do?

I think that Durocher would have this group making a deep run in the NCAA with the talent on the team.
Coach Tosh may still be able to do that as well.

What Durocher did better than any coach I ever had was that he always made sure each and every player on the team knew their role on the team. His secret was that he knew each of his players really well even on a personal level.

Besides a few of the boyz, I'm not convinced each player on the Saints know their role inside out at this point...

I still have faith in Tosh, he is a great Coach, he knows more than anyone the type of pressure that comes from Coaching SLU and I am sure he went in with eyes wide open.

The team has to start playing better.
If I am not mistaken, they have outshot all 4 opponents despite having a losing record.
Someone must step up to be the consistent scorer the team needs.
Back to back wins next week and the season looks a whole lot different.

For stretches of the game yesterday, I actually thought the boys dominated Oneonta, but they were dominated on the scoreboard where it counts. Finding a scoring threat (Hope you see this #9, #14, #22) will help solve that problem.

Finally the team must tighten up in the back.
Giving up 3 goals or more each in the first 3 games just wont cut it.
Normally at SLU, players who don't play defense don't play.
Team gave up 4 goals total  in 2000 and 2011 for the entire season and gave up 5 to Wheaton last weekend.

Apologies for the rant from a has been, but improvement is needed and it falls on the shoulders of the team to give 100% and represent the crest.

These 4 years go faster than you think.

Interesting response Saint of Old...usually you are very measured, optimistic and positive even in the worst of situations(i.e SLU losing at home to Amherst in the 2014 NCAA 2nd Round and all the shenanigans with the Amherst bench etc in that game). I gathered from your response that you feel some of the players and coaches are not on the same page. While I am not only intrigued by your response including stating that Durocher would have had this talented SLU side whipped into shape, which is either a confirmation of how good a coach Durocher was or a definite slight on the current coach or BOTH but am more curious to know WHY you feel that the players do not know their roles on this side or more matter of factly how do you know this?

In fairness, I think that after many players on various teams wont know their role after the first two weekends of the year. What I say has to be taken with a grain of salt as coming from an old Saint who thinks the boyz should be playing better. Like I said, I think Tosh is a great Coach. He has had the boyz in the dance his first two years at the helm. Also, this man was partly responsible for the rise of the program from the mid 90s. Coach Durocher had 4 losing seasons in the beginning before he found consistent success.
I think its the players have to step up and play the way they know they can.
I have taken a bit of brotherly flack on these boards for how highly I think of some of these players, but there is no disappointment without expectation, and I respect these players a lot and think they should and will turn it around.
Finally, I don't have ANY inside knowledge or sources, just a has been who dedicates wayyyyy too much of my time to a program I love.
There are a few of us out there which is what makes this site and board so much fun to be involved it.

[deutschfan]

Its brotherly flack and brotherly love.  I want to get back to Mr. Right's Hobart assessment.  I agree that they have an excellent coach and are in a situation where they should be able to recruit.  The women's team seems to perennially compete for the national championship.  I have always been curious as to the reason why at some schools the women's program dominates the men in success when you would think the school would be equally attractive to both genders.  While it could be argued that it is due to a difference in strength of coaches between the men's and women's program at Hobart I don't believe that's the case.  Another example is Wash U where the women's team is always in the national mix and Joe Clarke on the men's side is a very capable and experienced coach.

[Part_Bart]

Its brotherly flack and brotherly love.  I want to get back to Mr. Right's Hobart assessment.  I agree that they have an excellent coach and are in a situation where they should be able to recruit.  The women's team seems to perennially compete for the national championship.  I have always been curious as to the reason why at some schools the women's program dominates the men in success when you would think the school would be equally attractive to both genders.  While it could be argued that it is due to a difference in strength of coaches between the men's and women's program at Hobart I don't believe that's the case.  Another example is Wash U where the women's team is always in the national mix and Joe Clarke on the men's side is a very capable and experienced coach.

Bit of a homer bias on Hobart, having watched closely and not so closely over the years.  My sense is that part of the underperformance in early season is due to too much detail too soon: Too many plans and ideas.  Shaun is a great recruiter and so he has many capable players. This leads to problems with playing time and clarity of roles. Combining together tactical complexity, fighting for minutes, and concerns about role leads to some curiously flat games, odd mistakes, and early season struggles.  This is also why Hobart comes on so strong towards the mid-season, why they often prevail in the many OT games they play, and why the other team seems so excited if they can find a way to win.

Deutschfan wryly (and I think rightly) observed that Hobart may be the best no-wins-yet team in the country (and certainly in the league). The early season losses to an organized Eastern Connecticut (and a soft goal), the unfortunate loss to Brandeis (who were outplayed by a 10 man Hobart), and the Rochester tie (sigh) puts lots of pressure on Hobart to win the league in order to dance.  They could not pull off threading that needle's eye last year. Hobart is a better squad this year.  Still, it is not even mid-September and my read is that they will have to try to do so again this year.

[d3d3d3]

Union has appeared at No. 23 in the national poll, with RPI also receiving votes.

http://unitedsoccercoaches.org/web/Rankings/College_Rankings/NCAA_DIII_MEN/web/rankings/ncaa/diii_men.aspx

[deutschfan]

Thanks d3.  Saw that.  The Union ranking is way off base.  Union could win all of its preseason games and still be untested.  If Union is 23, Hobart without a win should be in the top 15, and Vassar, who wupped West Conn 4-0 compared Union's 1-0 squeaker, should be in the top 10.  Both are ridiculous notions as is Union's ranking.   

[d3d3d3]

Deutschfan seems to have a logical, reasonable informed opinion about the poll and where the Liberty League teams should stand in truth. So how can the voters be so far off? It's ridiculous. Clearly someone voting is familiar with the LL, right? How hard is it to look at common opponents and SOS? This is meant in no way to disparage Union - but to disparage the voters. Do a little homework. It would take 5 minutes this early in the season.

[Ommadawn]

It was a mid-week night of mixed results for LL teams.  RIT routed Elmira 3-0 (from the stats, it looks like it could have been a lot worse), RPI fell 1-0 to Williams (it was weird not to streaming or live stats available for this game), Ithaca lost at home 3-2 to Hamilton (shots were as even as the score), and Vassar came from 2 goals down to prevail 3-2 at New Paltz.  Skidmore visits Union to kick off league play Friday night.  It will be interesting to see how Skidmore's dynamic duo up top fares against the undefeated Dutchmen and, perhaps of greater importance for Skidmore's long-term success, how well the new GK and Oyeniyi-less back line does against Union's attack.

[Mr.Right]

The Williams at RPI game was streamed live, sometimes this site will not show the availability of the stream but if you go to the Home teams website you can find it.  You did not miss much I promise you as Williams at RPI was an uneventful affair. I will comment on the Williams side on the Nescac thread but my observations of RPI have changed a bit after watching them for the full 90. 

I had to remind myself that for the most part this RPI side is pretty young. As usual, they worked very hard all game. Williams got the only goal of the game on a completely fluke play that the RPI GK made a mess of. What was supposed to be a cross from the flank was miss hit and ended up as a looping shot on goal in which the RPI GK was way out of position for and somehow(do not ask me how) the ball ended up in the back of the net. Just a bizarre play that that the GK completely mucked up and will have to put the loss on his own shoulders. As far as my observations on RPI, they were unusually disorganized in the back for parts of the game that ended up costing them. RPI's back 4 were not communicating with each other very well all game. Bad giveaways by the wingbacks and no vocal leader at CB to help. Their back 4 are not the most physically imposing and while somewhat technical and fast they were just 1 step to slow in moving the ball around. To their credit, Adam Clinton still tries to play futbal whenever possible as all players are looking for feet but they need to do it faster. Maybe it will take them a month or so to gel and crisply move the ball. Their striker up top was fast and skilled but not a player that could take over a game and he does not have much to work with behind him when going forward. I have to look at the stats but i do not remember even a handful of SOG for RPI. 2nd Half they did have about 3-4 good opportunities from set pieces coming from bad Williams fouls in their offensive 3rd but they are not a threat in the air. The big advantage RPI had was using the crazy bounces the ball takes off that crappy turf. They just couldn't get a foot on any to finish them off, By all means, Williams was not that much better but did enough to win. Their loss of Tommy Young for the year is going to really hurt them. RPI will battle all year and get some wins in the LL here and there but they will be fighting for 5th /6th place IMO. Teams can and will be scoring goals against them and I doubt they will be able to out score opponents. This is not an NCAA team this year. Not sure if they have any injuries but they have no significant depth off the bench.

[Ommadawn]

The Williams at RPI game was streamed live, sometimes this site will not show the availability of the stream but if you go to the Home teams website you can find it.  You did not miss much I promise you as Williams at RPI was an uneventful affair.

I'll look more carefully next time (I did spot some updates on the crawl of the RPI site, but in my haste somehow missed the stream and the live stats).

[Mr.Right]

Had no clue the Ithaca coach who took over for Byrne left after only 2 seasons to get into the New England Revolution's system as a staff coach,  NOT SURE about that decision but he will be coaching the U-23's and I think the U-15's. So the Ithaca job opened up quickly in May that was filled just as quick with former Norwich coach and Midd Alum Kyle Dezotel. He was at Norwich for about 10 years before leaving for Manahttanville College. I thought he would of been the natural choice to replace Saward at Midd but I guess not. He has Ithaca playing well.

[deutschfan]

I was rooting for Ithaca in its game against Hamilton as I root for a LL team every time it plays against a NESCAC team.  Unfortunately for 2017 it is NESCAC 2, LL 0, and no LL team has a statement game win yet.  Hope that changes this weekend.   

[Ommadawn]

I was rooting for Ithaca in its game against Hamilton as I root for a LL team every time it plays against a NESCAC team.  Unfortunately for 2017 it is NESCAC 2, LL 0, and no LL team has a statement game win yet.  Hope that changes this weekend.   

It is noteworthy that both of the NESCAC wins you alluded to were on the road.  Opportunities for signature wins by LL teams are RIT v Rochester, St. Lawrence v Cortland, and Vassar v Oneonta on Saturday (and possibly Vassar v Wesleyan next Tuesday).  After that, probably the last opportunity for a LL team to garner a signature win against an out-of-conference foe is September 27th when Skidmore plays Williams.