Liberty League

deutschfan · October 08, 2022, 01:52:03 PM

Nice post CU. Agree CU was robbed in 2019 and that based on their freshman class their future is so bright they have to wear shades. Game of the day Skidmore v. Vassar. Fast fact--Vassar hasn't lost at Saratoga since 2008.

stlawus · October 08, 2022, 02:17:39 PM

Howler from Skid's 5th year keeper to put Vassar up

deutschfan · October 08, 2022, 04:01:21 PM

Maybe the defensive player of the week went to his head, but the first goal given up by Skidmore's keeper was absolutely atrocious goaltending. A slow ground ball that rolls through his hands. The gift allows Vassar to secure a tie. Between the Clarkson/SLU tie and this one we have learned zilch about which of the four teams atop the LL is the best.

Saint_Dad · October 08, 2022, 05:05:05 PM

So a few different thoughts from all of you about fitness levels and some tactical adjustments. CU had an excellent take where SLU's possession game wears their opponents down. These reasons as well as the kids at SLU are tough and work hard not to lose. They just don't give up. Coach Tosh seems to love these kids and they respond for him and each other. But I feel that the main reason is as stlawus stated is tactical. I believe that they want to possess and limit risk. They will forego lower percentage chances of through balls, passes over the top, or even putting direct kicks from distance into the box. Once the second half moves along and SLU needs a goal, they take more chances. This results in more direct play, more scoring opportunities, more goals, but exactly the same amount of goals conceded. I'd like to see them put more pressure on their opponents from the start. SLU has an excellent offense. Pipers can score from the 18, Miles and Saint Maximus are as dynamic and dangerous as any players in the conference. When Marvin moves forward, he can set up his teammates with precision through balls or score himself, and the freshman Ryan (6) is a tough scrappy player who is causing problems for the defense, especially on fast breaks. I think they have the best offense in the conference. For SLU, I think the best defense may be their offense. Don't get me wrong, their defense has been good, and Woelfinger has been an excellent goalie and leader, but I think if they are more aggressive in the first half, they will score, and it will make things much easier on them, will force their opponents to open up their game, which will give SLU the opportunity to score even more with what I believe is an explosive offense.

Saint of Old · October 08, 2022, 05:58:03 PM

Great observation Saint Pop.
Saints were just outshot 19-8 by RIT and still won 4-0.

They dont shoot just to shoot or attack without purpose.

Coach Tosh has a good vibe going in the camp.

That game against Vassar coming up will tell us where both teams are.

I have always had a lot of respect for Clarkson. When I played, every team in the league made the 1- step to play CU and SLU on Route 11.
No one wanted to ever play CU. Kids like the Secko brothers were pure Ballers.

I had CU outside my top 6 mainly due to their recent run in the league (except 20109).
In 2019 the committee gave Ithaca the at large bid (because Bombers got snubbed in 2018).

Dont get me wrong, the start that CU has is impressive, and I agree with their national ranking is well deserved.
Still, it isa very difficult league we are in. CU started the season 7 games shut out everyone, but have given up a goal in 3 straight LL games.
There are also other tough tests coming up against desperate teams who need points to qualify in the league.

League still wide open, but those last two #5and #6 spots is going to be crazy this year for who will get in.
If you get in, you can win.

stlawus · October 08, 2022, 06:08:48 PM

It will be interesting to see how the route 11 fixtures next weekend play out. Last year SLU made the trip downstate and burned themselves out by scraping out a very tough 2-1 win against Bard. They had no legs against Vassar the following day and played perhaps their worst game of the year. I've seen this happen not only in soccer but also in basketball as SLU has played some of their worst games of the last 10 years @Vassar in hoops. Now Vassar/Bard are making the trip up for the back to back fixtures. I get the feeling the Saturday games are going to be grinders.

deutschfan · October 09, 2022, 01:19:35 PM

Bard's status as Vassar's traveling partner has always been a ball and chain for Vassar doing the back to backs with SLU and Clarkson. The Bard game is generally a gimme for SLU. Bard has finished last in every year it has been in the league. It has not won a league game since 2016 and has three league wins in its history. That Bard was able to challenge a mediocre SLU team last year that made a miraculous league run with a ton o luck, especially in the RPI game where it was outshot 23-8 and out possessed about 70-30, does not change the general dynamic that Vassar is at a significant disadvantage when it plays SLU in the second game of the back to back. This will especially be true this year where Vassar's first game will be against an excellent Clarkson team. In many past years the Clarkson side did not represent near the challenge that it will next week. If Vassar runs the gauntlet next weekend it deserves to win league and the teams that make the semis can enjoy playing on one of the most idyllic grass pitches in the country at Gordon. Saturday's matchup between two SLU coaches will be fun to watch.

stlawus · October 09, 2022, 02:27:13 PM

I guess I never really put into perspective how bad Bard has been in men's soccer. 3 wins and 86 losses in the league, ouch. They are a great fit academically, but men's soccer isn't the only sport where they have struggled in. Vassar took a few years to get their feet under them when they joined, but it's been over a decade now with Bard.

Saint of Old · October 09, 2022, 07:16:48 PM

Bard is going to shock someone this season.
I don't know who and I hope it's not the Saints but they will punch someone. It is tough. Bard had a coach trying to build up the program a while back who suddenly and sadly passed away suddenly.
This is also a very difficult league and switching leagues is tough. Hamilton just finding themselves in NESCAC and they have been there for a decade or so.... I think the fact that the LL is mostly a 1 bid and sometimes rarely 2 bid league really has ppl underestimate the strength on the LL. Bard will get better and the entire league will be better as a result. They do beat quality non-league opponents, but football is 90% confidence, as an individual and as a team

Saint_Dad · October 10, 2022, 01:31:08 PM

Definitely an advantage for SLU this year with Clarkson being a strong team, especially compared to Bard. Hopefully SLU will come out attacking against Bard and put a few on the board in the first half in order to rest the starters and be ready for Vassar the following day.
Weekly rankings come out tomorrow. Any predictions? I assume Cortland will move to number 1 in the region. Will SLU move to 2 ahead of Oneonta? Brockport now has a big lead in the SUNYAC. Will SLU reach the top 25 nationally?

stlawus · October 10, 2022, 02:26:04 PM

Quote from: Saint_Dad on October 10, 2022, 01:31:08 PM
Definitely an advantage for SLU this year with Clarkson being a strong team, especially compared to Bard. Hopefully SLU will come out attacking against Bard and put a few on the board in the first half in order to rest the starters and be ready for Vassar the following day.
Weekly rankings come out tomorrow. Any predictions? I assume Cortland will move to number 1 in the region. Will SLU move to 2 ahead of Oneonta? Brockport now has a big lead in the SUNYAC. Will SLU reach the top 25 nationally?

I doubt SLU cracks the top 25 but might receive votes. Never underestimate Rochester staying high in the regional rankings. I could see SLU at 2 but Oneonta still has the head to head result, although that still didn't stop Cortland being above SLU despite SLU having the head to head result, a road win no less (Cortland does have a tougher schedule). Brockport definitely cracks top 4. Manhattanville might sneak in again.

Saint of Old · October 10, 2022, 06:45:36 PM

Quote from: stlawus on October 10, 2022, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on October 10, 2022, 01:31:08 PM
Definitely an advantage for SLU this year with Clarkson being a strong team, especially compared to Bard. Hopefully SLU will come out attacking against Bard and put a few on the board in the first half in order to rest the starters and be ready for Vassar the following day.
Weekly rankings come out tomorrow. Any predictions? I assume Cortland will move to number 1 in the region. Will SLU move to 2 ahead of Oneonta? Brockport now has a big lead in the SUNYAC. Will SLU reach the top 25 nationally?

I doubt SLU cracks the top 25 but might receive votes. Never underestimate Rochester staying high in the regional rankings. I could see SLU at 2 but Oneonta still has the head to head result, although that still didn't stop Cortland being above SLU despite SLU having the head to head result, a road win no less (Cortland does have a tougher schedule). Brockport definitely cracks top 4. Manhattanville might sneak in again.

I honestly hope SLU does not crack the 25 poll. My best case scenario is that they are #3 in the region with a shot at an atlarge without actually being in the top 25.
All the national ranking does is put a target on your back.
I dont think that the programs that have won it care too much about the ranking, for everyone else it is kinda cool to get ranked 1 or in the top 10, but then again, that comes with the added pressure as well.
Clarkson were ranked nationally for a good part of the season and it caused them to face some extra fire I'm sure.

Saint_Dad · October 11, 2022, 01:05:00 PM

Looks like SLU got the number 2 spot in the region. Hopefully they can do well this weekend and stay up. Brockport finally gets on the top. And as stlawus said, SLU got some votes for top 25. If they win them both this weekend, I assume they will show up. Either way, a great showing so far this year. Looks like a couple of nice days forecasted for both days as well.

d3d3d3 · October 12, 2022, 10:18:39 AM

On the Vassar/Bard thing - and I admit I'm a Bard guy - Vassar and Bard didn't enter the Liberty League at the same time. Vassar joined in 2000-01, Bard joined in 2011-12. That said, Bard's three wins in this many years is horrible.

Vassar had many lean years in those first 10 in the LL - and in 2012 went 4-3-1 in conference play and pulled off a pair of upsets to win the league title. That changed everything for the Brewers.

I think Bard has the right coach in place, and even though this year's roster is probably the best they've put out there, that doesn't mean W's in the Liberty League. It's a painfully slow process but they'll get there with this guy.

stlawus · October 12, 2022, 04:29:57 PM

Quote from: d3d3d3 on October 12, 2022, 10:18:39 AM
On the Vassar/Bard thing - and I admit I'm a Bard guy - Vassar and Bard didn't enter the Liberty League at the same time. Vassar joined in 2000-01, Bard joined in 2011-12. That said, Bard's three wins in this many years is horrible.

Vassar had many lean years in those first 10 in the LL - and in 2012 went 4-3-1 in conference play and pulled off a pair of upsets to win the league title. That changed everything for the Brewers.

I think Bard has the right coach in place, and even though this year's roster is probably the best they've put out there, that doesn't mean W's in the Liberty League. It's a painfully slow process but they'll get there with this guy.

Kostecky's pedigree is second to very few. If there is someone to build a sustainable competitive program it's him. Last year Bard had a really good season in baseball, so it's clear that it's not for a lack of resources/facilities etc. Men's basketball has gotten a lot better since their early days as well (no I'm not still upset Bard beat SLU at the buzzer last year I swear), so I see no reason why men's soccer can't right the ship.