Liberty League

[kevdog]

Vassar has 0 chance, no team is getting a pool C from the Liberty League.  You have to be in the top echelon of the regional rankings to have a shot, not a single Liberty League team has been regionally ranked.  Hobart might tomorrow but they'll be towards the bottom.

As Saint said, this is not unusual for SLU in the year after a major graduation loss.  The league has gotten better top to bottom as well.  I heard a few weeks ago Tosh is going to recruit from Europe this offseason.  At least I think that's what I heard, was admittedly more of an eavesdrop on my part during a game.   Today was the first time I've ever heard him get after the team as he's normally positive and encouraging.  It worked to an extent since they ramped up the intensity in the 2nd half.   They're really going to miss Woelfinger, his presence in the box is immeasurable and just look no further than Vassar to see a team deal with the loss of a tremendous keeper.   Good news for SLU is that most of the offensive output returns as well as the entire back line.  Just gotta get some players some development in the offseason and bring in some guys that can make a difference.  2 first years also missed the whole season due to injuries, so as Wenger often said "it's like a new signing". 

Any RPI fan reading all our griping could understandably come to the conclusion that us SLU fans think we lost more than RPI won and I just have to say that is not the case.  RPI deserves all the credit.  If they defend like they did today by clearing almost every chance in the middle of the box it will be a long day for Hobart.  I was glad I was able to see Clinton while walking back to my car to offer a quick congratulations in person, as I fully agree the guy is a class act.

Besides Petrone whot was the other freshman that missed time.  Was it Scheibler?  Replacing Woelfinger will be tough but I think Charalambus is up for the task. He looked pretty good against Plattsburgh.  Hope Tosh can find some players.  Durocher was a master at finding players that could play D1 but wanting to come play at SLU.  His last recruiting class (2015 freshmen class) was very good one to leave Tosh with.

[stlawus]

Petrone is one of those D1 types and Scheibler had a concussion that kept him out for the whole season, apparently he also impressed in preseason before getting concussed.  League is going to lose quite a bit after this year.  RPI started several graduate students as does Hobart.  Vassar loses Fauth and some seniors, Ithaca started a handful of 5th years and grad students, Union loses a bit on defense and their best player is a senior (albeit with optional 5th year) but is otherwise in decent shape.

Fully agree with the recruiting comments, but recruiting has changed quite a bit since Durocher left.  Also have to be mindful of the looming enrollment cliff in a couple years with an already dwindled high school population.  Fewer kids, more or less the same amount of schools and an entirely different club/academy landscape.

[deutschfan]

Well I too had Vassar and SLU 1-2 at the beginning of the season.  This is my Vassar post mortem.  In the games I saw I didn't witness any glaring keeper mistakes.  Rather, when they gave up goals it was because the defense just got beat.  The West Conn game was a harbinger of that.  Offensively, they got it done when Fauth did but otherwise no other player stepped up offensively.  Keker has 7 goals but they were less than impactful, three from the St. Mary's blowout, and no game winners in league.  Fiske finished great feeds from Fauth.  Allen, the NC fy coming off a 100 point senior high school season started in 17 games at central mid-field, played over 1300 minutes and had zero points on the year.  College soccer is definitely harder than high school.  Losing Fauth next year is somewhat like SLU losing Sibanda this year although they closed their careers in very different ways due to Sibanda being a much better player--especially in the League tournament.  This is no knock on Fauth as Sibanda was one of a kind.  It will be interesting to see how many Vassar players return as 5th years.  The tuition is not inexpensive and barely making the playoffs with a first round exit has to be extremely disappointing, especially having played Middlebury and Montclair even.  However, it has been a number of years since Vassar had a run in the LL Tourney.  I'm sure that Fauth and the rest of the team and coaching staff believed they would be dancing again this year with 9 starters returning.  Next year is much more of a question mark.  Maybe players will stay because they feel they have unfinished business or they are loyal to the school.  It is easy to be fond of the institution when everyone on campus has a smile on their face.  In the end that is probably what counts the most.       

[stlawus]

Agree on all points, but you can't discount the intangibles from a goalkeeper like leadership and organizing a defense.  It's why I think SLU will really miss Woelfinger, he's always communicating and putting guys in the right spots.  Wnorowski was no different. 

Vassar basketball experienced the same thing last year that the soccer team experienced this season.   I always thought the LL championship run by Vassar hoops in 21/22 could see some major regression the following season despite them returning all 5 starters, and while they had an injury that's what happened in the end.  Vassar was a great team last year no doubt, but now you have to wonder if some of it was over performance and this year was regression.  In fairness, you can say this about most teams every season but when you bring back 9 starters and you get a much different end result one has to wonder.

In retrospect, many folks myself included greatly underestimated the loss of Miles Levy for SLU.  Of course, Sibanda was in a class of his own but Levy came close to challenging SLU's single season record for assists last year.  I always have high expectations for SLU but I'm not completely surprised at their end result given the loss of 2 midfielders of that caliber.  I get that it's easy to make comparisons but I think sometimes SLU fans look back and think the Durocher years were sweet 16 seasons every single season, but like many coaches he also had ebbs and flows. 

[deutschfan]

 I don't think either SLU or Vassar overacieved in a remarkable 2022 season where two teams went through conference without a loss. Your thoughts about SLU's midfield are dead on. Levy was an unsung hero in the shadow of Sibanda. For Vassar this year's demise was not a function of player loss or injuries. I think it was fatigue.  They were a different team in the second half of their home win against Ithaca as opposed to yesterday. Yesterday's tilt was the third game in less than a week at Troy, Rochester and Ithaca. Playing Middlebury is admirable but scheduling them mid-league is questionable and going mid-league for a second trip to Waltham for a meaningless result made no sense to me. The back to back weekend is also always strenuous when the second game is against an opponent who plays Bard. Fatigue doesn't explain every loss like West Conn when they couldn't defend or put a corner kick in play but I think it was a major factor late.

[saint_forever]

Marco Wong another unsung hero of the SLU team. While is efforts were hardly ever truly appreciated, he did so much in breaking pressure and tracking ground. An extremely underrated player in the SLU 2022 team. Missing Toni Rogilano is also a big gap. Rarely got beat, and got forward so often. The SLU 2022 team was special, and frankly, if the first 15 minutes at Amherst went differently, I think they would have had a real chance at the Ship. All hypotheticals of course, but something to ponder. Tosh needs to be particular in his recruiting for next year, potentially go back to the Durocher roots of NYC and internationals. With a league that is dwindling in quality, the only way to attract top talent is to sell the prospect of a NCAA run. The SUNYAC is no better of a league than the LL, but it seems those top teams of Cortland and Oneonta constantly have NCAA experience as a selling point to recruits. Sad for the graduating seniors of this year, but excited for the years to come, SLU is a remarkable program, and like many others on this board, I have a real sense of pride in the future of it.

[Soccer BTN]

In response to the SLU fans that have voluntarily voiced their frustrations throughout the season - I do hope that you can view the games with some sort of pride. They keep the ball well, play in 1-2 touches and do well to keep their opponents chasing for stretches of the game. You can understand the frustration with the lack of dangerous chances to show for their possession, but constantly questioning the gaffer's tactics does no good for the players or the team's success. It also does no good for your blood pressure...and I doubt that anybody can afford to add more stress into their lives these days!

You have to think that there has been a shift in D3 soccer that has been even further highlighted with recent changes to the OT rules. In years past, a team that plays the style that SLU does would greatly benefit from having an extra 20 minutes to find a game winner. A team that has spent the better part of 90 minutes chasing their opponent would be content with sitting back and looking to hit on the counter - and you rarely find teams that consistently find success playing "not to lose" rather than "playing to win." We would love to think that D3 soccer can be played the same way that we see on TV at the highest levels, but the name of the game is creating dangerous chances and denying chances - which you have to say RPI did a phenomenal job of getting numbers back, staying compact, and being brave in the box.

Tosh clearly does a good job coaching his players to follow what he believes is the way to play - keeping the ball. Whether or not this is the style that will take SLU as far as their fans would like is a different discussion. If he changed his tactics to neglect possession and create as many chances as possible, I am sure there would still be complaints about the style. Tosh has done well recruiting in the past and all you can do is hope that this fuels his hunger to repay the faithful alumni.

All in all - glad that a fanbase has so much representation on these boards. Reading your posts gave context as I watched their games that I might not have tuned in to without your presence here.

As for the remainder of the LL tournament - what are the predictions for Hobart vs. RPI & Union vs. Ithaca?

[Saint_Dad]

It was a tough and disappointing end to the season, although they left it all on the table in the final half.  I believe they had about 15 shots in the second half alone.  Their average for the season was about 10 shots per game.  It was great to watch them play with purpose although they couldn't get it done in the final third.  Missing Levy in the midfield was big, as well as Marco Wong, who continued to improve with every game last year.  Unfortunately he didn't come back for his senior year.  The midfield will get a makeover next year with Pijpers, Peacock and McDougald graduating.  Jeremy Ogango's position on the field moved forward and wouldn't be surprised to see him as a midfielder next year.  The way SLU plays, the midfield is the most important group as they play possession.  Many teams just skip the midfield and kick long balls.  They actually seemed to have the most success when they played the ball over the top yesterday, as the speed of Mogul and Edwards, and the toughness of Campbell, Brown and Graber, enabled them to complete many of those long passes.  I feel good about next year and the commitment that Tosh makes to playing his game.

[stlawus]

Oh don't worry, I don't take things too seriously, but you made several good points. You're dead on about the OT change, SLU used to love playing in OT, lost very few games in the extra stanza. As far as questioning tactics, you're pretty much right on all points, and as I said yesterday while having high expectations it's not realistic to put a lot of pressure on the program to make deep runs every single year even given the team's history. For as much as I've criticized the back passing the style of play is second to none, especially when you watch most other games and see lots of back to front. On the whole they were still a very young team and I'm quite confident in their near and long term future. Tosh is unquestionably the man to lead the program for hopefully many years to come.


As for predictions, I would love to see RPI do what SLU did in 2021 and make a run from the 5th seed, but I'm thinking Hobart gets that one. RPI had to block a lot of shots off the line against SLU and struggled to keep possession. I think with Hobart's ability to score from anywhere that makes that a near impossibility to replicate.

Ithaca has won 2 straight games after being down a goal, so despite having to travel I think they win to get to the final.

[stlawus]

Saint Dad, great point about Ogango. He looked really good in a holding midfielder position yesterday.  He's sneaky fast and has excellent ball control. With Scheibler ready for next season I would think he would slot in to Ogango's previous CB role. Would make a good sized CB pairing between him and Diaz.

[Christan Shirk]

REGION III - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 01, 2023

Rank	School	. Div. III . Record	. Div. III . SOS	. R-v-R .	. Overall . Record	. Prev. . Rank
1.	Cortland State	13-2-2	0.596	4-1-2	13-2-2	1
2.	Oneonta State	13-2-3	0.582	1-2-3	13-2-3	2
3.	Brockport State	9-2-5	0.580	2-1-3	9-2-5	3
4.	Rochester	8-2-5	0.579	1-1-2	8-2-5	5
5.	Buffalo State	11-4-3	0.563	2-3-1	11-4-3	6
6.	New Paltz State	9-3-4	0.584	1-3-2	9-3-4	4
7.	Hobart	10-5-2	0.571	1-4-0	10-5-2	--

[deutschfan]

Thanks Christian.  I hope you regale us with your Pool C insights this year even though I don't foresee a LL team obtaining a Pool C bid.  Hobart as the current number 7 in the region probably is out of luck if it doesn't win the tournament, especially sitting on 5 losses already, and with a 1-4 RvR which will not improve in the upcoming tournament games.  There will be some interesting bubble teams including last year's NCAA runner-up.

[deutschfan]

So I get that the SLU crowd is still in mourning. However it is time to pick the semis. Ithaca ends Union's Cinderella season and Hobart learns from the second half of the SLu/RPI game and dominates at home.

[Saint_Dad]

Still mourning. 

[stlawus]

I also think Hobart keeps up their winning ways.  I'll take Union advancing on PKs 5-3 after a scoreless regulation and OT.