Liberty League

[stlawus]

I'm no coach or expert but I'm quite sure SLU does a lot of 5v2 work to prepare for the possession game. It's a standard drill for essentially every team on the planet but it's that way since it can be extremely effective if practiced correctly. I usually see SLU do a lot of it in their warmups, more so than their opponent. There's a brief clip on the SLU soccer Youtube page in the 2021 highlights video of a goal scored on the training ground. You can get a brief glimpse of how they work the ball around in their style.

Having seen enough games over the years I've got a fairly good grasp at assessing teams, which is made a bit easier by some teams having the same coaches for a long time so you see the same style year in year out. RPI always plays a similar style to SLU as Clinton has the same philosophy. Hobart is a bit more direct but also move the ball around. All these teams generally play the same throughout the whole season. They might change their formation but the style is usually the same.

When it comes to recruiting, you're recruiting players first and foremost. A team like Amherst might have the luxury of picking players based on style but everyone else just wants the best players possible and then go from there. In the ever changing recruiting landscape of the division 3 world beggars can't be choosers.

[Saint of Old]

stlawus: Thanks for your recent updates. I always appreciate how plugged in you are to both the soccer and hoops worlds! Since you referred to tactics in a recent message, I'll try to ask a few things I've wondered about for a while.

What's a typical practice like for a team that plays possession? What's the most common—or most useful?—drill that a possession team does during the week, and how does it enforce their style? The obvious follow-up, of course, is about a team that plays more directly. What are they doing at their practices? How do they develop their habits? I realize there are countless approaches to training, and the St. Lawrence version might be similar to the Hobart version to the RPI version, but I guess the thrust of my question is: how do teams implement a possesion approach at practice every day? And how does that evolve between late August and late October?

(Saint of Old: I'm especially curious about your thoughts here. You and I were on campus the same four years and even spent some time in the same circles; you with the soccer guys, me with the basketball guys. Fish was our mutual acquaintance  )

Over the years, I've watched lots of Saints' games and notice their style. They string together plenty of passes, and sometimes I cringe when that slow-roller is headed to a back or the GK. They also build some lovely sequences, and every season, some of their goals are really impressive. But their opponents are no slouches, and even the prototypical example—someone like Amherst—imposes plenty of possession on their opponent (right?), though it might not look quite as...polished? Is that the correct word?

So I'm guessing this next question has a subjective answer, but how does a serious fan classify a team? Is it just the Eye Test? Do you watch enough games and get a sense for a style of play? There's no metric for this distinction, right? None of this is meant to doubt or second-guess. I'm just genuinely curious!

Finally, how do coaches recruit for their tactical preferences? Do possession coaches only recruit from possession clubs and HSs? Or do coaches go in search of skill, fitness, and athleticism and trust that they can mold the player to fit the tactics?

Thanks!

Ralph, looks like you were a student during the Camelot era
Matt Fish is a good guy and strong athlete whonhad a good shot.

Biggest thing with how the Saints played was that back in the day, they possessed and penetrated at the same time.
Practice was 90% technical with ball control always the focus.
We were a passing team so everyone on the squad was a good passer with one or 2 of us wide guys taking bit on the run every now and then.

Perhaps the biggest thing was fitness levels.
Not sure if we were the most technical or fastest, but no one focused on fitness as much as Coach Durocher.

Team is a bit different now, but personal is policy.

Late 90s Early 00 Coach recruited technical players and then made them super fit and even more technical.

I am not as familiar with the new team, but the style has changed a bit... More passes around the backline than penetrative, but maybe the gamebhas changed and some of us are just dinasours.

When we played a 4-3-3 system with wingers pressing and a passing game, I think it was very rare as most people did not... Well besides Russo at Williams who also was recruiting skilled Jamaican players   to mesh with an already technical team.

[stlawus]

SLU's 3rd scrimmage in 4 days ends with a 1-1 draw across the border in Brockville against Queen's University. Queen's has a roster with d1 transfers and lots of other high end talent so a great test for the Saints heading into the opening weekend. Heard beforehand Queen's were going to take the game quite seriously.  Not totally sure on how long starters played but SLU went into halftime up 1-0 off a Henry Brown goal.

[kevdog]

stlawus: Thanks for your recent updates. I always appreciate how plugged in you are to both the soccer and hoops worlds! Since you referred to tactics in a recent message, I'll try to ask a few things I've wondered about for a while.

What's a typical practice like for a team that plays possession? What's the most common—or most useful?—drill that a possession team does during the week, and how does it enforce their style? The obvious follow-up, of course, is about a team that plays more directly. What are they doing at their practices? How do they develop their habits? I realize there are countless approaches to training, and the St. Lawrence version might be similar to the Hobart version to the RPI version, but I guess the thrust of my question is: how do teams implement a possesion approach at practice every day? And how does that evolve between late August and late October?

(Saint of Old: I'm especially curious about your thoughts here. You and I were on campus the same four years and even spent some time in the same circles; you with the soccer guys, me with the basketball guys. Fish was our mutual acquaintance  )

Over the years, I've watched lots of Saints' games and notice their style. They string together plenty of passes, and sometimes I cringe when that slow-roller is headed to a back or the GK. They also build some lovely sequences, and every season, some of their goals are really impressive. But their opponents are no slouches, and even the prototypical example—someone like Amherst—imposes plenty of possession on their opponent (right?), though it might not look quite as...polished? Is that the correct word?

So I'm guessing this next question has a subjective answer, but how does a serious fan classify a team? Is it just the Eye Test? Do you watch enough games and get a sense for a style of play? There's no metric for this distinction, right? None of this is meant to doubt or second-guess. I'm just genuinely curious!

Finally, how do coaches recruit for their tactical preferences? Do possession coaches only recruit from possession clubs and HSs? Or do coaches go in search of skill, fitness, and athleticism and trust that they can mold the player to fit the tactics?

Thanks!

Ralph, looks like you were a student during the Camelot era
Matt Fish is a good guy and strong athlete whonhad a good shot.

Biggest thing with how the Saints played was that back in the day, they possessed and penetrated at the same time.
Practice was 90% technical with ball control always the focus.
We were a passing team so everyone on the squad was a good passer with one or 2 of us wide guys taking bit on the run every now and then.

Perhaps the biggest thing was fitness levels.
Not sure if we were the most technical or fastest, but no one focused on fitness as much as Coach Durocher.

Team is a bit different now, but personal is policy.

Late 90s Early 00 Coach recruited technical players and then made them super fit and even more technical.

I am not as familiar with the new team, but the style has changed a bit... More passes around the backline than penetrative, but maybe the gamebhas changed and some of us are just dinasours.

When we played a 4-3-3 system with wingers pressing and a passing game, I think it was very rare as most people did not... Well besides Russo at Williams who also was recruiting skilled Jamaican players   to mesh with an already technical team.

Being the fittest team under Durocher is an understatement. In the early 90s you had two sets of shoes in your locker- your cleats and your running shoes and your running shoes wore out faster. Durocher played a high pressure style where the team would narrow one side of the field. Everybody had to be in sync and move at the same time for it to work. The key was to make the other team have no place to go and as Durocher would say if they can switch the field 70 yards, let them. Some teams could do that back then (RIT was one them. They were highly technical and well coached but just not as fit as the SLU teams). The SLU teams would work their way out of the back down the wings as Saint of Old said. The players started to get a lot more technical as years went by but fitness levels of those players were extremely high especially in the early years of Durocher's tenure. As the great Roy Phiel ( RIT coach in the late 80's early 90s) said they are the fittest team I have ever seen. They never stop running.

[RalphyReinbeck]

stlawus, Saint of Old, kevdog: This is all super. Thanks, SLU crew! Here's hoping for a great season in Canton!

[deutschfan]

Coming out of hibernation for the 2024 season.  Some good season openers that will help provide an early assessment of who is going to prevail in what appears to be a wide open league.  These games include SLU v. Geneseo who they tied last year; Vassar v. West Conn who they lost to last year; RPI v. New Paltz; RIT v. Brockport; and Union v. powerhouse Oneonta.  I feel bad for Union--finally make the LL tourney after 8 years, lose their best player and first year to Conn College after getting dissed in the ROY award, and graduate a bunch of seniors.  I was also hoping that Gaudiano would come back for a sixth year at RPI as a second year grad student after a career with one of the greatest first year performances in LL history followed by a covid year and an injury year.  I guess you have to graduate some time.  His will be difficult shoes to fill as will Fauth's at Vassar.  Here's to the start of another great year with an excellent group of commentators on this board.

[stlawus]

Return of the (deutsch) Mack.  Was wondering when we'd get the rest of the band back together.

RPI looked pretty pedestrian against New Paltz earlier.  All their midfield losses to graduation are already giving them a project to work through.

[deutschfan]

Kudos to Freddyfud.  Prescient call.  Tobolski gets a hatty in his first college game and his third goal is a marvel, strips a defender just past midfield, dribbles a couple of times, sees the goalie is off is line and curls about a 40 yard shot over the goalie's head. 

[Saint of Old]

I played in the last century so maybe I am a dinasour, but back then the CenterMid normally had the ball at his foot more than the Goalie... but I guess the game has changed and side to side passes will start to win games for SLU, but I doubt it.

[Freddyfud]

Kudos to Freddyfud.  Prescient call.  Tobolski gets a hatty in his first college game and his third goal is a marvel, strips a defender just past midfield, dribbles a couple of times, sees the goalie is off is line and curls about a 40 yard shot over the goalie's head. 

A rival of my son for several years.  I don't know anything about the LL, but he would be one to watch in any league.  He knows how to finish.

[kevdog]

Possession is nice but it doesn't win you games. Possession with purpose will. SLU goalie touches the ball more than its midfielders is a recipe for not a winning formula. SLU is just lackadaisical in the first half and are looking for the pretty pass in the final third. Shoot the ball. They may get a deflection and it goes in. Plus it will make the defense play honest instead of packing it in

[Saint of Old]

Not your Daddy's Saints.

[kevdog]

Not your Daddy's Saints.

That's for sure

[stlawus]

I have no idea what I just watched. I can handle seeing the team get beat straight up because the other team is bigger, faster and more talented. Instead it's the same ole self destruction and no sense of urgency play style until it's too late.

This could get really ugly with 4 straight road games that include Cortland and Oneonta, a program that this team can never beat.  I don't want to get too dramatic one game into the season, but something has got to give here.

[kevdog]

I know it is one game but if SLU plays like that it will be a long season. They need a dominant player who can take over games. They have always had one and some years they would have 2-3 players.