Liberty League

[deutschfan]

Besides the SLU snub, the NCAA didn't do Vassar any favors by sending them to Middlebury, home of the number 1 seed.  Rowan will be a tough out in the first round while Middlebury coasts putting up 10 or so against below .500 Hunter while resting their starters in the second half.  Fortunately, this is pretty much the scenario every other year when Vassar travels to Canton with Bard in tow.  Their first game against SLU or Clarkson is a war while their next opponent has a walkover against Bard and is rested for the next day's game.  This is Vassar's best and most physical team since 2012 when they beat a Tufts team in the first round that would go on to win two national championships in the following years, and then lost in the last 30 seconds to a very, very good Brandeis team when Brandeis was a national power.  Most of that 2012 team had the experience of beating Number 1 in the country SLU in penalty kicks in the LL tourney the year before.  Bottom line--this Vassar team can advance to the next weekend.  It won't be easy but it is not out of the realm of possibility.

[Saint_Dad]

That is no excuse to have back to back games for a loss. It is the same for the other team and use to be how it was every weekend for years. Some games were not even 24 hours between games. You have to do it in the NCAA tournament so you might as well get some experience in how it is.

No excuses. And you are right Another Mom, a deep bench is very important, especially when it comes to the NCAAs, where you play back to back games. This is one area that a team like Conn College excels, and SLU will usually play 13 or 14 in a game. They will need to have a deeper bench to have a chance in the NCAAs in the future.
Vassar is an excellent team with an great style of play. Keker and Tobolski will cause problems for any defense out there. I wish them well.

[flyingdutchman]

I understand the frustration with 8 NESCAC teams in the tournament, but the whole point of the NPI system is to get the "best" teams into the tournament. Yes, some of the NESCAC teams like Bowdoin or Wesleyan have a 7-5-5 record and 7-4-5 record, but they have quality results that prove they can compete with the best. Bowdoin has tied Tufts twice, Conn, and Williams. Those are ties against the 2nd, 5th, and 6th best ranked teams. Whether or not NPI is weighing a quality tie too much in the calculation is one thing, but it shows they can compete on any given day with the best. Wesleyan on the other hand has a tie vs Babson(#10), a tie vs Bowdoin, a tie against Williams, and a win over #5 Conn. Again, showing that a team like Wesleyan who is the 6th or 7th NESCAC team into the tournament is deserving of being a top 32 team in the country. It's difficult when teams like St Lawerence don't make the tournament given their recent results and run but you have to understand that in order to make the tournament, especially with the new NPI system you can't lose or tie bad teams. ST Law loss to SUNY Geneso the 161st ranked team. Tied Ithaca the 163rd ranked team, tied Clarkson the 108th ranked team. Tied Hobart the 172nd ranked team. I truly believe that a lot of teams ranked ahead of teams such as Ithaca aren't as good as them but it doesn't help when your conference doesn't get results outside of your conference. Take a look at the NESCAC out of conference record, and you'll realize one of the reasons they are all ranked so high. 

[Saint of Old]

I understand the frustration with 8 NESCAC teams in the tournament, but the whole point of the NPI system is to get the "best" teams into the tournament. Yes, some of the NESCAC teams like Bowdoin or Wesleyan have a 7-5-5 record and 7-4-5 record, but they have quality results that prove they can compete with the best. Bowdoin has tied Tufts twice, Conn, and Williams. Those are ties against the 2nd, 5th, and 6th best ranked teams. Whether or not NPI is weighing a quality tie too much in the calculation is one thing, but it shows they can compete on any given day with the best. Wesleyan on the other hand has a tie vs Babson(#10), a tie vs Bowdoin, a tie against Williams, and a win over #5 Conn. Again, showing that a team like Wesleyan who is the 6th or 7th NESCAC team into the tournament is deserving of being a top 32 team in the country. It's difficult when teams like St Lawerence don't make the tournament given their recent results and run but you have to understand that in order to make the tournament, especially with the new NPI system you can't lose or tie bad teams. ST Law loss to SUNY Geneso the 161st ranked team. Tied Ithaca the 163rd ranked team, tied Clarkson the 108th ranked team. Tied Hobart the 172nd ranked team. I truly believe that a lot of teams ranked ahead of teams such as Ithaca aren't as good as them but it doesn't help when your conference doesn't get results outside of your conference. Take a look at the NESCAC out of conference record, and you'll realize one of the reasons they are all ranked so high. 

Saints do not deserve a bid.
If you cannot win double digits with the schedule they had then you stay home when the big boys are playing.
Some of us said early this seasons and seasons past that this type of football will jot be successful. You do not play 14 people all season with a negative style of football and win titles.
First season in 30 years the team has back to back single win seasons.
Team went from one of the most diverse teams in country to the whitest in the land.

The flair and creativity went with the diversity.
Pipelines that produced all-americans yearly were cut off.

SLU is still a good side, but certain decisions has changed the program from a National Contender to a Conference contender. No shame in that, but expectations have to be curtailed.

[stlawus]

I understand the frustration with 8 NESCAC teams in the tournament, but the whole point of the NPI system is to get the "best" teams into the tournament. Yes, some of the NESCAC teams like Bowdoin or Wesleyan have a 7-5-5 record and 7-4-5 record, but they have quality results that prove they can compete with the best. Bowdoin has tied Tufts twice, Conn, and Williams. Those are ties against the 2nd, 5th, and 6th best ranked teams. Whether or not NPI is weighing a quality tie too much in the calculation is one thing, but it shows they can compete on any given day with the best. Wesleyan on the other hand has a tie vs Babson(#10), a tie vs Bowdoin, a tie against Williams, and a win over #5 Conn. Again, showing that a team like Wesleyan who is the 6th or 7th NESCAC team into the tournament is deserving of being a top 32 team in the country. It's difficult when teams like St Lawerence don't make the tournament given their recent results and run but you have to understand that in order to make the tournament, especially with the new NPI system you can't lose or tie bad teams. ST Law loss to SUNY Geneso the 161st ranked team. Tied Ithaca the 163rd ranked team, tied Clarkson the 108th ranked team. Tied Hobart the 172nd ranked team. I truly believe that a lot of teams ranked ahead of teams such as Ithaca aren't as good as them but it doesn't help when your conference doesn't get results outside of your conference. Take a look at the NESCAC out of conference record, and you'll realize one of the reasons they are all ranked so high. 

This isn't about SLU, and I 100% disagree with the notion that NPI is about getting the best teams in. It should be about getting the most deserving teams in, not the best. Major difference. There is no reason a team barely above .500 should be in the NCAA tournament. Not one. Again, this is completely contrary to the point of division 3. Every year in every sport there are lots of good teams that get left out, but they are left out because they didn't win games.

[Saint_Dad]

Saint of old, I think you are being a little harsh, but I do see your points.
The team played much more direct this year, and the last two years were without overtime, which most likely would have added a couple more wins.  Regarding diversity, their star Kenyon was injured and the man from Hong Kong was watching from the stands, as I heard he played a few pro games during his year off and was no longer eligible. You would have been looking at a much more diverse team, much deeper team, and a certain national contender. Going deeper into the bench is important, especially when/if you get the the NCAAs. Hopefully more good things to come. Some really good kids and good soccer players.

[deutschfan]

LL awards are out.  I am not going to rag on Brown being player of the year given his latter season late game heroics, although his ROY award last year is still irksome and kudos to the former Union player who should have won it, left for Conn College after being snubbed, and was the second leading scorer on the NESCAC champion.  What I do take issue with, and this is despite my Vassar affinity, is any team, including Vassar, having 10 players honored.  This happened a couple years ago with SLU.  This is such a diss to the rest of the league.  Vassar didn't run the table and it was trounced by Ithaca.  Ithaca also tied number 2 SLU.  Ithaca also made the league tourney and lost in pks.  It was not a bottom feeder by any means.  Yet, it has one player honored on the third team.  Similarly RIT who gave Vassar a run in the LL semis has one player honored on the third team.  Finally, Bard received no honors at all and this is a team that started 5-0.  This phenomenon of the top one or two teams loading up on the vast majority of league recognition is so high school.   

[flyingdutchman]

I understand the frustration with 8 NESCAC teams in the tournament, but the whole point of the NPI system is to get the "best" teams into the tournament. Yes, some of the NESCAC teams like Bowdoin or Wesleyan have a 7-5-5 record and 7-4-5 record, but they have quality results that prove they can compete with the best. Bowdoin has tied Tufts twice, Conn, and Williams. Those are ties against the 2nd, 5th, and 6th best ranked teams. Whether or not NPI is weighing a quality tie too much in the calculation is one thing, but it shows they can compete on any given day with the best. Wesleyan on the other hand has a tie vs Babson(#10), a tie vs Bowdoin, a tie against Williams, and a win over #5 Conn. Again, showing that a team like Wesleyan who is the 6th or 7th NESCAC team into the tournament is deserving of being a top 32 team in the country. It's difficult when teams like St Lawerence don't make the tournament given their recent results and run but you have to understand that in order to make the tournament, especially with the new NPI system you can't lose or tie bad teams. ST Law loss to SUNY Geneso the 161st ranked team. Tied Ithaca the 163rd ranked team, tied Clarkson the 108th ranked team. Tied Hobart the 172nd ranked team. I truly believe that a lot of teams ranked ahead of teams such as Ithaca aren't as good as them but it doesn't help when your conference doesn't get results outside of your conference. Take a look at the NESCAC out of conference record, and you'll realize one of the reasons they are all ranked so high. 

This isn't about SLU, and I 100% disagree with the notion that NPI is about getting the best teams in. It should be about getting the most deserving teams in, not the best. Major difference. There is no reason a team barely above .500 should be in the NCAA tournament. Not one. Again, this is completely contrary to the point of division 3. Every year in every sport there are lots of good teams that get left out, but they are left out because they didn't win games.

So what is the difference then between best teams and most deserving teams? What team in your opinion, deserves to be in the tournament over some of those NESCAC teams. SOS is a real thing. The whole point of all the AQ spots is for teams that are successful in their conferences to be given a chance in the tournament even though we all know some of those teams aren't the best in the country. The at large bids however, are for the BEST teams in the country...

[paclassic89]

Winning games.  Period.  Teams that only beat the bottom 2 teams in their conference and lose/draw against everyone else shouldn't be rewarded. 

[Saint_Dad]

LL awards are out.  I am not going to rag on Brown being player of the year given his latter season late game heroics, although his ROY award last year is still irksome and kudos to the former Union player who should have won it, left for Conn College after being snubbed, and was the second leading scorer on the NESCAC champion.  What I do take issue with, and this is despite my Vassar affinity, is any team, including Vassar, having 10 players honored.  This happened a couple years ago with SLU.  This is such a diss to the rest of the league.  Vassar didn't run the table and it was trounced by Ithaca.  Ithaca also tied number 2 SLU.  Ithaca also made the league tourney and lost in pks.  It was not a bottom feeder by any means.  Yet, it has one player honored on the third team.  Similarly RIT who gave Vassar a run in the LL semis has one player honored on the third team.  Finally, Bard received no honors at all and this is a team that started 5-0.  This phenomenon of the top one or two teams loading up on the vast majority of league recognition is so high school.   

If not Brown, who would you have considered? If they're looking for offensive player, it's Brown. He had the goals, Mogul the assists, Keker missed too many games, and Tobolski is a freshman.  I'd say the two best players in the league that could play at a higher level are Tobolski and Mogul. 
Best defender who isn't a goalie? Baker Diaz.

[stlawus]

Mogul definitely has a future in the game, whether it be playing somewhere or coaching. 

[Saint_Dad]

Congrats to Vassar.  Looking forward to seeing how they stack up against NESCACS top team. 

[stlawus]

Well played to the Brewers. League is represented well.

[deutschfan]

Tobolski starts the year with a hat trick and has a hat trick in his first NCAA contest.  Pretty auspicious showing.  Vassar staff deserves LL coaching staff of the year just for recruiting Tobolski.  He will likely be pretty well marked tomorrow by Middlebury whose coaches have the advantage of being able to scout the second game today.

[Freddyfud]

Vassar staff deserves LL coaching staff of the year just for recruiting Tobolski.

His current Brewer teammate and former clubmate also from Chapel Hill may have a say...