Liberty League

[Saint_Dad]

LL awards are out.  I am not going to rag on Brown being player of the year given his latter season late game heroics, although his ROY award last year is still irksome and kudos to the former Union player who should have won it, left for Conn College after being snubbed, and was the second leading scorer on the NESCAC champion.  What I do take issue with, and this is despite my Vassar affinity, is any team, including Vassar, having 10 players honored.  This happened a couple years ago with SLU.  This is such a diss to the rest of the league.  Vassar didn't run the table and it was trounced by Ithaca.  Ithaca also tied number 2 SLU.  Ithaca also made the league tourney and lost in pks.  It was not a bottom feeder by any means.  Yet, it has one player honored on the third team.  Similarly RIT who gave Vassar a run in the LL semis has one player honored on the third team.  Finally, Bard received no honors at all and this is a team that started 5-0.  This phenomenon of the top one or two teams loading up on the vast majority of league recognition is so high school. 

I wouldn't mind seeing more awards added.  Defenders and midfielders have a hard time being recognized.
Why not
goalkeeper of the year.
Defender of the year (field player)
Offensive player of the year
And either midfield player of the year or all around player of the year.

[deutschfan]

So a final post mortem on the season.  Vassar was a great side with the impossible task of winning at Middlebury after a grinding battle with Rowan that was in doubt for the first 80 minutes while Middlebury had a JV scrimmage against Hunter.  Unfortunately for Vassar their NCAA lot was set with their two non-conference losses to Brandeis and Montclair St.  In both of those one score contests Vassar was missing its best forward, Duncan Keker, who, despite being injured for 8 games still amassed a 20 point season.  Two wins in those games and Vassar might have been hosting and currently practicing for the round of 16.  While Vassar graduates some stellar seniors in Rodhouse, Liu, Hall and Keker, they have excellent quality returners especially if Tobolski is not wooed away by a Davidson (close to home), or Colgate, or Dartmouth or Amherst, or....  The last superstar freshman with 10 plus goals for Vassar was Mattie Mrlik who led them to their LL tourney title in 2016.  Mrlik's family ties to Vassar ran deep with both his older brothers being sports stars there.  Will Tobolski be like Mrlik, and Gaudiano at RPI who stayed with their schools, or Charlie Kelly who left Hobart after his boffo 2013 season with Hobart--only time will tell.   

[Saint of Old]

Vassar does deserve credit.
Some of us were playing when they entered the league in 00 and steadily kept working to build up.their program year after year.
An all-time coach left but the D3 Arne Slott seems to have picked up the torch and taken the team to an even higher level.
I see Vassar being a top teamnin the league for some time to come.

[stlawus]

It's hard to replace most of your back line, but as long as Vassar has Tobolski their floor is very high.  Recruiting seems pretty consistent as Hood has figured out how to leverage the school's academic profile much in the same way the NESCACs do to get good players on a yearly basis.

Can't see too much change next year.  Very likely Vassar and SLU will be fighting for the top again. SLU loses Mogul but have a lot of returning sophomores and first years, as well as Ogango who missed all of this season.  My guess is he slots in at his natural RB position next year. An offseason of development for the young SLU wingers would go a long way. 

[StatesSoccerFan]

Hard to tell where teams in LL stand for next year at this point.  This new D1 roster cap for next season is going to make many D1 players available to transfer to D3 schools as they may not have a home at their D1 schools any longer. Coaches will have to tell 5-6 players they do not have a roster spot. Curious to see which LL teams are able to dip into that pool. I assume strong academic schools in NESCAC and UAA conferences or schools with great facilities have a huge advantage with these kids but D3 rosters will definitely change dramatically including many LL teams as there will be an influx of D1 kids looking for new home to play. This is big factor for next year and going forward. I assume the D1 transfer portal is massive this year. That being said this will make it very difficult for D3 players making the jump to D1 if they are thinking of transferring. Big changes.

[Saint_Dad]

So a final post mortem on the season.  Vassar was a great side with the impossible task of winning at Middlebury after a grinding battle with Rowan that was in doubt for the first 80 minutes while Middlebury had a JV scrimmage against Hunter.  Unfortunately for Vassar their NCAA lot was set with their two non-conference losses to Brandeis and Montclair St.  In both of those one score contests Vassar was missing its best forward, Duncan Keker, who, despite being injured for 8 games still amassed a 20 point season.  Two wins in those games and Vassar might have been hosting and currently practicing for the round of 16.  While Vassar graduates some stellar seniors in Rodhouse, Liu, Hall and Keker, they have excellent quality returners especially if Tobolski is not wooed away by a Davidson (close to home), or Colgate, or Dartmouth or Amherst, or....  The last superstar freshman with 10 plus goals for Vassar was Mattie Mrlik who led them to their LL tourney title in 2016.  Mrlik's family ties to Vassar ran deep with both his older brothers being sports stars there.  Will Tobolski be like Mrlik, and Gaudiano at RPI who stayed with their schools, or Charlie Kelly who left Hobart after his boffo 2013 season with Hobart--only time will tell.   

Vassar's loss to Ithaca really killed them in the rankings, dropping from low 20's to low 40's and out of contention for an at large bid. Rankings are really tough on teams in the LL league. All teams will have an off game. A Nescac school has the luxury of having many off days and it doesn't affect their rankings, where Vassar had one off day and they lost all chances for at large bid.
Re SLU next season, I see Ogongo as more of a leader out there in the center of the field, perhaps as defending center mid. Midfield struggled this year, but Ogongo and Petrone will be a good start. We didn't see a comparable winger to Mogul in the LL, so he will be hard to replace. SLU should still be fighting for a top position unless some team gets a large influx of D1 transfers.

[deutschfan]

That's why I love this thread. I learn so much. Do alot of D1 teams carry over 28? 

[Kuiper]

That's why I love this thread. I learn so much. Do alot of D1 teams carry over 28? 

The average DI men's soccer team carries 32.5 players, so it stands to reason that a decent number carry over 28, but the average could be pulled up by a small number of huge rosters.

[StatesSoccerFan]

3 of the 4 teams in the Final Four from NESCAC. Now you see why they had 8 teams in the tournament. Best conference in men's D3 and it's not really close. If SLU, Hobart or Vassar were in that conference year in and year out what do you realistically think there conference record would be?

[paclassic89]

3 of the 4 teams in the Final Four from NESCAC. Now you see why they had 8 teams in the tournament.

Nobody was ever complaining about the top NESCAC teams getting in. It was the bubble teams like Hamilton and Bowdoin.  How did Bowdoin do btw?  Advanced past the 1st round and then got destroyed by Trinity.  Would Vassar have lost that game 3-0?  They got knocked out 2-1 by a Middlebury team that could end up winning it all.  Vassar/SLU would be able to compete in the NESCAC.   They're at least on par with a Hamilton/Bowdoin/Wesleyan

[College Soccer Observer]

As a NESCAC fan, I would much prefer to play SLU and Vassar instead of Trinity and Bates.  Better quality competition from those two LL sides.  Vassar has played Middlebury two years in a row, tying 2-2 at home in the regular season and then losing this year in the playoffs at Midd.

[PaulNewman]

OK, OK...one more...

Not sure why the LL is getting dragged into this.

I think it's a false comparison.  If you put Vassar and SLU in the NESCAC those programs potentially change significantly, especially with recruiting.  For the sake of argument, let's say one or both initially fell in the bottom half.  Look at Hamilton, which at least short-term has separated itself from the bottom three. 

Take Union, RPI, and Skidmore.  I could easily see those programs taking a leap.  Heck, Union is almost the same school as Conn College but with engineering, a silly dome-tower in the center of campus, and D1 hockey.  Absolutely no reason Union wouldn't become a powerhouse.  I think RPI made an Elite 8 recently and might even have beaten Messiah one time.

[kevdog]

Just to add to the conversation SLU use to play Middlebury and Hamilton on a regular basis on their schedule. I think Hamilton was the same league as many of the Liberty League teams.  SLU also played Amherst and Williams many times in the NCAA torunament and those games went down to the wire or Pk's.  Some of them SLU dominated the game but was unlucky.  The NESAC has some great teams in it and best of luck to them in the final 4.

[SKUD]

When do you think StLaw will answer Middlebury's challenge and get them on the schedule as they are proximity wise the closest high quality side?  That could be a great rivalry if only the liberty league team would step up to the challenge.

[stlawus]

SLU has been locked into scheduling agreements for several seasons.  Whether that's still the case next year remains to be seen, but that's generally the main reason why they haven't strayed far off the path in recent years.  There's always at least 6 games penciled in every season (Plattsburgh, Canton, Potsdam, Cortland, Oneonta tournament x2) so that usually leaves room for 1, maybe 2 more non conference games.  This has been filled by Geneseo, and SLU doesn't usually go more than 17 games.  I agree that SLU should be playing them, but to me it seems to be more of a timing/logistics issue.

I always wonder if Hamilton regrets going exclusively to the NESCAC. They played in the LL in soccer and basketball and those teams were much more consistently competitive compared to now.  Some of the most epic men's soccer and basketball games in Liberty League history were between SLU and Hamilton.

And yes the argument wasn't about the top 4 or 5 NESCAC teams getting in, it was the ones on the bubble.  You could put teams with comparable records from numerous leagues into the tournament and there's a good chance they would fare the same as Bowdoin and Hamilton.  Simply put, no team with sub.600 winning percentages should be in the tournament, period.