2014 D3 Season: National Perspective

[Mr.Right]

That is ridiculous they moved those games. If that is all the snow on the ground that is nothing. 1995 National Championship Semi-Final at Williams was played in a blizzard and many November games in New England are played with some snow on the ground and snow falling. Nowadays everyone has to move the game to a turf field. Calvin worked all year for that home field advantage and the NCAA screws them

Are we sure the NCAA forced the move?  Is it possible that Calvin and the other teams were agreeable to the move?  Is it possible that Calvin and the other teams even proposed the move?  I have no idea, but I wasn't going to assume that this was solely on the NCAA.

Well I did not say it was definite but implied it was probable. Every pod has a NCAA representative and they are the go to guys for operations. Ultimately these representatives make the final call. A coach like Jay Martin knows all to well about being a NCAA rep and has all kinds of connections with these guys being in the business for almost 40 years. I am sure in this part of the country he is revered and if he says the field is unplayable, the field is unplayable. I am not saying this is what happened but something to think about.

[Midwest Soccer]

You really think a visiting team's coach made the call on where to play the game? That doesn't make too much sense to me.

[Mr.Right]

I did not say he made the call.........I said he has the influence to possibly influence the decision. I did not say it happened, I was just throwing it out there as I have heard of these things happening before.

[lastguyoffthebench]

Chalk up another loss for the bracket pool....

King's had three chances to end it, but failed to convert in PKs.

[KnightFalcon]

Remember, OWU already played on Calvin's field this year ... and lost. So if he saw an opportunity to play on a larger space with a more consistent surface, it should not be a surprise if he at least raised the issue. Again, not saying he did, but it certainly is a plausible scenario. And I'm sure Calvin was reluctant to give up a home game to go play at their arch-rival's field

[Mr.Right]

I totally agree that is why I bring this up. Why would Calvin want to switch sites under any circumstance? Coaches are very reluctant to do this. Also, the NCAA rep thing I brought up earlier makes me believe that Calvin did not want to switch.

[Flying Weasel]

That is ridiculous they moved those games. If that is all the snow on the ground that is nothing. 1995 National Championship Semi-Final at Williams was played in a blizzard and many November games in New England are played with some snow on the ground and snow falling. Nowadays everyone has to move the game to a turf field. Calvin worked all year for that home field advantage and the NCAA screws them

Are we sure the NCAA forced the move?  Is it possible that Calvin and the other teams were agreeable to the move?  Is it possible that Calvin and the other teams even proposed the move?  I have no idea, but I wasn't going to assume that this was solely on the NCAA.

Well I did not say it was definite but implied it was probable. Every pod has a NCAA representative and they are the go to guys for operations. Ultimately these representatives make the final call. A coach like Jay Martin knows all to well about being a NCAA rep and has all kinds of connections with these guys being in the business for almost 40 years. I am sure in this part of the country he is revered and if he says the field is unplayable, the field is unplayable. I am not saying this is what happened but something to think about.

I was responding to the fairly definitive "the NCAA screws them", not "it seems the NCAA may have screwed them."  So I wondered if someone knew how it went down and figured I'd ask.  I don't doubt the possibility of the scenario you paint, but it's always better to move from speculation to fact if possible.  And another possibility that had crossed my mind was that if the field really was deemed unplayable, Calvin may have preferred to play at Hope over delaying one day and having to host (and hopefully play) on Sunday. 

[Mr.Right]

Ok I guess I should have said the NCAA possibly screwed them . However. I have to disagree with you on your point of Calvin choosing to play at Hope. I do not believe any coach would want to move the site off campus to another neutral campus 1 hour away.  When schools do not have an alternative turf field to play on the NCAA rep would step in and say we have to move this game. I was just suggesting that OWU or maybe another team might have influenced the "unplayable" angle. I would want any example in the last 20 years where a coach would purposely want to move the game to another site. Looking at the live cam that game could be played right now if need be on that field.

[KICKIN95]

This is more of a general question, but why does the NCAA accommodate schools that do not want to play on Sundays.  Making kids skip school so other kids don't have to skip church is an interesting precedent for the NCAA to set.

I have questioned this myself a many times.  I have no issues with religion of any sort, but which takes precedence? (This is not the NCCAA)  I know some schools will not play because of their beliefs and this is a problem for the schools that are able to play and don't have to miss school to do so.  Will the schools that do not want to play on sunday flat out refuse to play or is it just a "we would rather not"?  Either way I think the NCAA should make a firm decision. I realize there are many more DIII schools than DI or DII that are faith based, but there still needs to be a clear rule.  IMO classes missed should trump religious beliefs in this Association, if you don't agree with me that is your right, but than I think the school is question may want to think about changing conferences. If a team chooses not to play because of this belief it is their choice and their forfeiture of the game.  I believe religion plays a very important role in peoples lives, but in this day and age everyone demands a definite line drawn and this issue unfortunately is no different.  Maybe leave it up to the teams playing each other, if the protesting team wishes to not participate on the scheduled date it can be granted a reschedule by the other team or a forfeiture if the teams cannot come up with a amicable alternate date.  I would love to hear other people's thoughts on this and their possible solutions, I just ask that it doesn't get to crazy and to try and keep the original question in mind.

I'm very much in agreement with your views on this.  I think telling college students that they must miss class in order to accommodate the religious practices of another team is a tricky statement to send. I'm curious to see what people think about this, or if anyone who has attended (or follows) a school that has a no-Sundays policy might be able to offer their opinion.

How many early season tournaments run Fri/Sat and no one seems to complain about that? Conferences have no problem scheduling games during the week - many requiring long travel time and missed classes.  And a Sunday evening tournament game can impact Monday classes just as much depending on the length of travel after the game. Where's the tolerance for different points of view? I don't think these schools ask to play on Saturdays because their "religion" demands it, but rather, they place a significant amount of value on Sundays for activities other than athletics.

I don't see anyone being intolerant?  I believe that no one complains about early season tournaments on Fri/Sat and the missing of classes because it is scheduled that way by a non faith based association that doesn't use religion as a reason for missing games or classes, which is the whole point to this discussion.  This is just a basic question as to why or if true why does the NCAA make schedule changes for "religious reasons".  You have to look at both sides instead of playing the "religious discrimination card".  Ultra sensitivity to issues is often the catalyst that fuels emotionally irrational decisions that end up displacing the majority for fear of disrupting the un silent minority.  If this was a Christian based Association and the "sunday rule" was written and in place than fine, but where and how does the decision get made as to who succumbs to the pressures of for lack of a better term "religious correctness".
I am not anti church or anti religion, my entire reason for elaborating on this subject was to get different opinions and find out who or what decides the outcome of this situation when it arises and why a non faith based athletic association would genuflect to the religious schools desires.

[KnightFalcon]

I'm detecting some ultra sensitivity here. Is your objection because the motivation for preferring not to play on a Sunday is driven by someone's religion? Would you object less (or not at all) if the reason was motivated by something else? And vice versa ... why would a faith based school genuflect to the non faith based athletic associations desires?

[Mr.Right]

I personally do not mind the religious exemption as long as it does not turn into an advantage for whatever reason

[Falconer]

Just realized that the coach of the team that Messiah plays this weekend, King's College, is yet another former Falcon player: Mark Bassett (http://departments.kings.edu/athletics/men/soccer/coaches.htm). I knew the name was familiar. I think he played under both Dave Brandt and his predecessor, the late Layton Shoemaker.

I still have no information about Danny Brandt's absence from the lineup in recent games. I assume an injury that must be fairly serious, but I don't know any specifics. Does anyone else out there have information?

[Falconer]

Let me quickly correct my own post a moment ago. Bassett is the coach at King's, but King's lost to Morrisville so they won't be playing the Falcons. Here's why I got confused: if you go here http://www.gomessiah.com/news/2014/11/12/MSOC_1112142419.aspx you see where Bassett's listed, without pointing out that King's is already out. I wrote the post after seeing a familiar name I hadn't expected to see, but it's a mistake influenced by the college's own web page in this case.   

[Falconer]

And, now it's fixed. That was fast. Someone from their athletic department must be reading this board this afternoon. The information about Bassett was embedded in the top part of the article until a moment ago...

[Gregory Sager]

For over half a century the NCAA has had formal legislation that requires championship schedules to be adjusted to accommodate schools that have rules against Sunday competition. The first such rule was imposed by the NCAA's executive committee in 1961 and was adopted by the NCAA membership at large two years later. It's informally called "the BYU rule," since it was adopted in response to Brigham Young's being forced to vacate College World Series opportunities a couple of times in the late '50s because of the school's refusal to participate in Sunday contests.

The "BYU rule" was modified in 1999 to require all sports to modify championship schedules to accommodate all schools that have a "written policy against competition on a particular day for religious reasons." (NCAA Bylaws, art. 31.1.4.1) Attempts to overturn the BYU rule around that time were countered by a widespread lobbying effort of NCAA member institutions of both secular and sectarian stripe.