Pool C -- 2014

[Hawks88]

That Alfred State game is just a lose-lose.  If Fisher crushes them, they are doing what they are supposed to.  If it's within 3 scores then it's a problem.  If Fisher loses, their program will implode right on the spot.  But no matter what the outcome, their SOS will suffer bringing that team to the fold. 

Isn't Alfred State still provisional and has no affect on SOS? If you go to the SOS page they are at the bottom listed as 0-0.

[boobyhasgameyo]

I knew they were a provisional member of D3, but I didn't know that it wouldn't have any impact on the SOS as a result.  Thanks for the knowledge share!  +k

[smedindy]

Having no affect on SOS is just as bad as a negative affect. It's one data point they have to throw out.

Unless is something as horrid as an Alfred State game....

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Pat can correct me on this since I can't be sure due to the time of the night and the day I had... but I believe provisional teams now can count towards all criteria, but still aren't eligible for post-season play. Or at least they have to maybe be a second year provisional. The idea is that teams, especially conference teams, aren't hurt by having a game they have to play (i.e. conference) because it doesn't go towards any data or information.

[cubs]

If Oshkosh wins out to finish 6-1 in WIAC and 6-4 overall, do they have any chance at a Pool C, with three NC losses being to a D1-FCS (South Dakota State) a pair of NAIA (Robert Morris and Marian) schools? 

Just curious and I figured there at least one of the more knowledgeable posters on here would know...

[smedindy]

They will have a chance. I wonder where their SOS will wind up, though and if they'll be RR'd.

[wabndy]

If Oshkosh wins out to finish 6-1 in WIAC and 6-4 overall, do they have any chance at a Pool C, with three NC losses being to a D1-FCS (South Dakota State) a pair of NAIA (Robert Morris and Marian) schools? 

W/l record against non d3 opponents is still a secondary criteria. Stacked against a 9-1/8-2 team in with multiple RRO opponents, I don't see how a 6-4 could ever get a pool C, even if we got to the secondary criteria. To repeat one of Pat's mantras, it's not who you lose to, it's who you beat that counts.

[smedindy]

They'd have beaten all of the WIAC but Whitewater, including Platteville and Stevens Point. That's a good resume! If it gets to the secondary criteria they're hosed, but beating Platteville and UW-SP is pretty strong, as I think even a two loss WIAC team will still be regionally ranked...

It's how a 6-1 Oshkosh with a decent SOS (it will rise after Platteville and UWSP) will stack up in the West and then against the others.

[cubs]

Thanks for the replies guys....  Didn't realize it was a "secondary" criteria.

[wally_wabash]

They'd have beaten all of the WIAC but Whitewater, including Platteville and Stevens Point. That's a good resume! If it gets to the secondary criteria they're hosed, but beating Platteville and UW-SP is pretty strong, as I think even a two loss WIAC team will still be regionally ranked...

It's how a 6-1 Oshkosh with a decent SOS (it will rise after Platteville and UWSP) will stack up in the West and then against the others.

This is where it gets tricky for Oshkosh.  If they beat Stevens Point, Stevens Point probably can't be an RRO and they probably need that result to get to the front of the West's at-large queue.  They are an interesting case for sure.  Doesn't hurt to have a WIAC apologist chairing the committee either. 

[smedindy]

The moral of the story is "Win Your League..."

[hazzben]

They'd have beaten all of the WIAC but Whitewater, including Platteville and Stevens Point. That's a good resume! If it gets to the secondary criteria they're hosed, but beating Platteville and UW-SP is pretty strong, as I think even a two loss WIAC team will still be regionally ranked...

It's how a 6-1 Oshkosh with a decent SOS (it will rise after Platteville and UWSP) will stack up in the West and then against the others.

This is where it gets tricky for Oshkosh.  If they beat Stevens Point, Stevens Point probably can't be an RRO and they probably need that result to get to the front of the West's at-large queue.  They are an interesting case for sure.  Doesn't hurt to have a WIAC apologist chairing the committee either.

I have a hard time imagining UWO getting much love. It might be secondary criteria, but I'd wager it'll still have a subjective affect (I'm not arguing it should, mind you) on how they're viewed.

More than that, you've got a lot of MIAC schools to position as well. SJU, Cobbers and Bethel are probably (assuming favorites keep winning) all sitting with a single 'good' loss, more d3 wins and multiple 'good' wins than UWO. And we tend to forget about all the other teams from non-power conferences that will be in the mix as well (Carroll, Pacific, St. Scholastica, Chapman).

There's just a lot of quality in the West, and not enough spots.

Teams that will be discussed by the West committee include, in no particular order:

Linfield
UWW
UWP
UWSP
UWO
Pacific
Chapman
Wartburg
Bethel
Concordia
SJU
GAC (depending on Saturdays result)
Carroll
CSS
Macalester (though their Hamline loss means they have virtually zero shot at being ranked)

In terms of D3 schedule, these are all currently unbeaten or 1 loss teams.

As always, we'll hopefully get more clarity as things progress. But the MIAC and WIAC could make things crazy.

[hazzben]

As a 'West' guy, here's how I'd slot them today. I realize Wally's mentioned before it's frustrating not having a West Fan Poll.

My West Poll w/ SoS:

1. UWW .467
2. Wartburg .589 (they feel like 'one of those teams'. The Wartburg posters are debating their merits compared to the 99 and 03 teams)
3. Linfield .556 (Judging by last year, I'd guess the committee actually puts Linfield here, based on SoS)
4. Bethel .596
5. Concordia .540 (committee could view them as 1-1 v. RRO...For both the Cobbers and Johnnies, they've got some good wins and losses)
6. SJU .503 (their lone loss came with their top 2 qb's out due to injury)
7. UWP .511 (Concordia loss looks better than the North Central loss at this point, committee won't know if the NCC loss is a RR result yet)
8. UWSP .521
9. Chapman .571
10. UWO .478

11. GAC .444 (I give them credit for the SJU loss, where Carroll has played no one of note)
12. Carroll .518 (RRO over W-L and SoS here. Plus, I think GAC and Pacific would beat them H2H. They don't pass the smell test to me)
13. Pacific .498 (UD loss is ugly, non D-3 results bring another loss)
14.CSS .484
15. MAC .348 (brutal!!)

I think the really muddy part is trying to figure out the MIAC and WIAC order. I debated putting UWP ahead of SJU, but I had a hard time separating them from Concordia, and I think Concordia is better than the non-Whitewater WIAC squads. Might be some MIAC bias here. But I watched the Little Brass Bell and wasn't impressed with North Central (at least compared to where they've historically been).

Pick it apart boys!

[wally_wabash]

7. UWP .511 (Concordia loss looks better than the North Central loss at this point, committee won't know if the NCC loss is a RR result yet)

Absolutely will be a RRO.  The North Region, after about the top 5 or 6 teams, is an absolute tire fire this year.  No chance that North Central falls outside of the top 10 (that we know of...if Elmhurst gets them in week 11, they might fall out, but it'll be secret). 

[hazzben]

7. UWP .511 (Concordia loss looks better than the North Central loss at this point, committee won't know if the NCC loss is a RR result yet)

Absolutely will be a RRO.  The North Region, after about the top 5 or 6 teams, is an absolute tire fire this year.  No chance that North Central falls outside of the top 10 (that we know of...if Elmhurst gets them in week 11, they might fall out, but it'll be secret).

I realize NCC will be a RRO. But the West Committee won't know that when compiling the first weeks ranking. Whereas they will know where they'll be slotting the West teams. Make sense?

NCC will help UWP down the road, just like Chicago might help Bethel (assuming NCC and Chi keep winning and remain ranked). But it won't in the first poll released.

Which brings up another question. Do we know what the criteria is this year regarding RRO...is it once ranked always ranked or not?