FB: Region 6 fan poll

[colinsteinke]

Lots of good stuff here. A few to point out:

- UWW went 0 first-place votes last week to 6 this week, despite of only gaining 1 point from last week.
- Wide range of opinions on Bethel. Don't think we've had a team get a 1st place and a 9th place vote in the same week before.
- Lots of uncertainty on Linfield, especially since they've only played two games so far. A few first-place votes possibly just because they're a big name that hasn't lost yet. First place by default?

One of the more intriguing starts to a D-III season.  Along with Bethel's range, George Fox received one second place vote and was left off another ballot altogether.

This is obviously very subjective, but one thing I really like about these results is that St. John's and UW-W (and even to a degree Bethel and UW-P) have not been overly penalized for playing good teams. The order can be debated, but I do think you guys got the top 4 right.

The D3football.com poll does a pretty good job of sorting things out as well. The only unfortunate (but understandable) result on their poll in my mind is that the two top two (NCC and Mount Union) are benefitting from scheduling soft.  As much fun as we've had watching and analyzing the UW-W, UMHB, St. John's, Bethel, UW-P, Hardin Simmons loop, NCC and Mount and their soft schedules are benefitting the most right now.  I know it doesn't even matter, it's just fun to see how it's all shaking out.

Yea, this has bugged me. Everyone is cheering on UWW, UMHB, SJU for scheduling top echelon non-conference opponents. "This is how it should be!" And then NCC and UMU get rewarded for NOT doing that. Even with the losses, UWW and UMHB and SJU should be above those two teams until proven otherwise. Because everyone says SOS matters, but then it doesn't. You're right that the poll doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is who is left standing after the Stagg Bowl, but this has bothered me a bit this year.

[wildcat11]

I concur about Linfield - too little data and riding their resume on past performance.

Yeah, total one hit wonders....

[colinsteinke]

I concur about Linfield - too little data and riding their resume on past performance.

Yeah, total one hit wonders....

Up until last year, it had been a long while since Linfield had done much in the postseason. And their nonconference schedule isn't much to be excited about, nor are they blowing those teams out. So, this seems fair.

[criswyly]

yeah I'm thinking that Linfield is an overrated team who haven't beat anybody yet of significance. In fact they may be perhaps one of the most overrated teams in division 3. they hardly ever play anybody of significance out west, even though they seem to make it to the playoffs occasionally, probably because of their week schedule and conference. their beginner quarterback doesn't impress me and their so-called vaunted defense has yet to be proven. so we'll see. in the meantime I think they're overrated. but then again my friends think I'm full of it. LOL oh I don't have any friends...

[criswyly]

some people say that I'm losing it.

[Ice Bear]

I'll come clean on a few of my votes. Obviously I'm a UWW fan, but I was not one of the 6 to vote them in the top spot. I actually had them 3rd. I have Linfield in the top spot (w/ SJU #2), only because I wasn't comfortable putting anyone else up there.

Yes, Bethel had a great win at home against SJU, but the loss to UWP is still fresh in my head (which is a bad loss in my opinion, even taking into account injuries). I had Bethel unranked last week. Moved them up to 9th this week, right behind UWP (who I have at 8th).

Ice understands regardless of injury there must be some ranking consequence for a loss however Ice thinks this may be an exception. To Ice, the Royals are two completely different teams with Roste and w/out Roste. Ice agrees it's interesting to see the amount to which they are being punished from that loss after defeating the #2 team in the nation. Ice gets it though and certainly appreciates your willingness to put it out there.

Ice just can't jive with the cats as #1 in ****ing anything...simply because they are Linfield.

[Pat Coleman]

NCC and UMU get rewarded for NOT doing that.

I actually believe North Central and Mount Union are being rewarded for being really good at Division III football.

[desertcat1]

some people say that I'm losing it.

Yeah just like all the others cats , we love you buddy  marbles and all 


Ice you need to find a hot bear and chill. 

[Ice Bear]

some people say that I'm losing it.

Yeah just like all the others cats , we love you buddy  marbles and all 


Ice you need to find a hot bear and chill. 

Ice was just messing around. Tons of respect for the Linfield program. Ice says sometimes the sarcasm doesn't translate. Linfield is one hell of a program.

[bleedpurple]

NCC and UMU get rewarded for NOT doing that.

I actually believe North Central and Mount Union are being rewarded for being really good at Division III football.

All the teams in the Top 10 are really good at Division III football and would have the exact same record as North Central and Mount Union if they played the same teams Mount Union or North Central did. I think the point being made is that they have ascended to #1 and #2 by virtue of. not losing.  And the teams they have not lost to are not good at Division III football.

I'm not even criticizing the pollsters when I say that. I don't think it's possible to put a Top 25 out there that won't cause debate right now. And I think a large part of the fan base probably prefers it this way.

[art76]

And I think a large part of the fan base probably prefers it this way.

Bingo - we have a winner!

[smedindy]

NCC and UMU get rewarded for NOT doing that.

I actually believe North Central and Mount Union are being rewarded for being really good at Division III football.

All the teams in the Top 10 are really good at Division III football and would have the exact same record as North Central and Mount Union if they played the same teams Mount Union or North Central did. I think the point being made is that they have ascended to #1 and #2 by virtue of. not losing.  And the teams they have not lost to are not good at Division III football.

I'm not even criticizing the pollsters when I say that. I don't think it's possible to put a Top 25 out there that won't cause debate right now. And I think a large part of the fan base probably prefers it this way.

Wait a minute...

In the past Mt. Union has played some decent teams in their one-game non-conference schedule. In 2021 they played an up-and-coming Westminster team that went 8-1 in their conference. Before then they had a home and home with Rose-Hulman, while not an elite program certainly isn't in the dregs of D-3.

North Central, this year, played Wabash for their lone non-conference game, who beat them in the playoffs a few years ago, was a playoff team in 2019, and the three losses last year were the most since 2004. Not good at Division 3 football my eye.

In 2021 they chainsawed Aurora, who the week before lost only by six to St. John's.

I think you're not thinking critically about that, and the limited number of teams that can play them with one non-conference game. Conference games are conference games, so dogging NC and UMU for those is disingenuous.

[bleedpurple]

NCC and UMU get rewarded for NOT doing that.

I actually believe North Central and Mount Union are being rewarded for being really good at Division III football.

All the teams in the Top 10 are really good at Division III football and would have the exact same record as North Central and Mount Union if they played the same teams Mount Union or North Central did. I think the point being made is that they have ascended to #1 and #2 by virtue of. not losing.  And the teams they have not lost to are not good at Division III football.

I'm not even criticizing the pollsters when I say that. I don't think it's possible to put a Top 25 out there that won't cause debate right now. And I think a large part of the fan base probably prefers it this way.

Wait a minute...

In the past Mt. Union has played some decent teams in their one-game non-conference schedule. In 2021 they played an up-and-coming Westminster team that went 8-1 in their conference. Before then they had a home and home with Rose-Hulman, while not an elite program certainly isn't in the dregs of D-3.

North Central, this year, played Wabash for their lone non-conference game, who beat them in the playoffs a few years ago, was a playoff team in 2019, and the three losses last year were the most since 2004. Not good at Division 3 football my eye.

In 2021 they chainsawed Aurora, who the week before lost only by six to St. John's.

I think you're not thinking critically about that, and the limited number of teams that can play them with one non-conference game. Conference games are conference games, so dogging NC and UMU for those is disingenuous.

Ok, in terms of trying to reverse Pat's language, it probably came out a bit harsh. However, I am not talking about the past. I am talking about 2022.  Mount Union played Defiance and North Central played Wabash. An argument can be made that Wabash is good at D-III football this year, but I don't see it being made by many Little Giant fans.  And Defiance, well...

[smedindy]

Wabash is down, for sure, because their defense is imaginary. But they can pile up points, and the only team to harness them was North Central.

I'll give you Defiance. But you gotta schedule someone, and sometimes you gets Defiance.

[wm4]

Sure, comparatively speaking, Mount and NCC "haven't played anybody" yet this year (though we all know Wabash is a worthy program, just down a bit this year).  That said, both Mount and NCC have crushed every opponent so far.  We know what good football looks like at the D3 level, and they're certainly playing very good football to this point.    In my view, one does not need to draw on past year's performance to gauge this year's teams.  They're really good.

Also, huge tip of the cap to SJU, UWW, UMHB, Hardin, and others, for really playing grade A non-conference opponents to start the year.  It's made September fun to follow and none of those teams should be overly punished by voters for outcomes in those game. 

Only 4 weeks into the season, and to me the biggest question mark at this point is Linfield.  They've only played 2 games and have looked pedestrian in each.  October will give us a better read on how they are this year.