FB: Region 6 fan poll

[bleedpurple]

Only thirteen teams receiving votes, and each of the three not in the top 10 were placed last by their voter. That's dang close to a consensus.

I had UW-SP as my #10 team (but for the first time all year I didn't have 10 teams from the West in my national ballot). I just can't look past the loss by Concordia to Jamestown, even though it was the first week. To me, that loss is as bad as losing to Carleton/St. Olaf.

Point really disappointed me this past week. I really wanted to put UWL or UWSP in my top 10. However, when UWL lost to a bad UWEC team...there's no way I can justify putting UWL in my top 10. UWSP showed me no reason they belong in the top 10 after their offense (and special teams) failed to score a single point in Whitewater (even with UWW's banged up secondary that La Crosse lit up). I understand UWW is good, but UWSP was suppose to be at least competitive, and not give up 24 points at half. Also, by the sounds of it, the lead should have been a lot more than that if UWW receivers didn't drop as many balls as they did.

So I decided on Concordia-Moorhead as my 10th team. They at least put up a fight against the top team in their conference...and probably should have beaten St. Thomas. Which is much more than I can say for Point against UWW. To me, it was a no brainer: CMH > Point

One of my observations of football that I have never verified statistically is the belief that the third of three consecutive high challenge/high emotion games is really a tough spot for a team. It's one of the reasons I feel like Oshkosh has been at a particularly difficult place in the schedule for UW-W the last couple of years. The game has come on the heels of Morningside and Platteville. UW-W got through it this year. Last year, not so much. This year, Point came to Whitewater on the heels of Platteville and Oshkosh. Not to take any credit at all from UW-W, that was a tough spot for Point.

[TwoArmedScot]

I'd love to hear the justification from whoever had St John's at #9.
I'm not sure they should be lower than #9 in the country, much less regional.

Based on St. John's performance against St. Thomas, at home, they are the third best MIAC team if you compare that to Concordia's performance against St. Thomas, at home.  I don't think that the second, or third for that matter, best MIAC teams are better than the top three WIAC teams just based on the fact that the WIAC has tougher schedules.  Also, I'm not going to put St. John's ahead of Linfield (Reputation) or Coe (UNDEFEATED) so that's how St. John's ends up 8 in my poll this week.  Probably shouldn't have had them at 9 last week, that was an oversight on my part, but I can't see them any higher than 8 until they show us something against a quality opponent...or someone above them lays an egg.

[retagent]

Someone - like Linfield?

[Greggers]

How can you make that assumption when really the WIAC has built their reputation on having whitewater be a top 2 team and assuming that because platteville and Oshkosh played them close they are all really good? Maybe Whitewater is not the team we think? Hard to make judgements when really nobody has played anyone. I think the playoffs should be more competitive this year then possibly the past 5 years

[jamtod]

Someone - like Linfield?

Or Concordia... against Jamestown.

Although I absolutely believe this Concordia team is much better than week 1, but if the polls are based on performance to date this year, I'd have a very hard time putting Concordia above St John's. The rest of the explanation could make sense. I think St John's is actually a very strong team and would not want to have to face them again.

UW-P has two really nice looking losses, but I don't think that's going to help them in the RR and I think they'll be (and maybe should be?) on the outside looking in until they can knock off UW-O or UW-W.

[wally_wabash]

Someone - like Linfield?

Or Concordia... against Jamestown.

Although I absolutely believe this Concordia team is much better than week 1, but if the polls are based on performance to date this year, I'd have a very hard time putting Concordia above St John's. The rest of the explanation could make sense. I think St John's is actually a very strong team and would not want to have to face them again.

UW-P has two really nice looking losses, but I don't think that's going to help them in the RR and I think they'll be (and maybe should be?) on the outside looking in until they can knock off UW-O or UW-W.

Platteville got massive help this week when Wartburg beat Dubuque.  That's going to bump UW-P up to, at worst, third in the at-large line from the West region which gives them a shot.  Dubuque getting home at 9-1 almost certainly would have kept UW-P from having any chance at all at making the field. 

RE: "good" losses- I think it's easy to get seduced by "good" losses, which usually translates to "not getting squashed by a top 5 team", but I'd still prefer to see a quality win in there somewhere, which UW-P doesn't have this time around.  We're going to have a similar thought problem in the North Region after John Carroll loses to Mount Union- JCU is going to have losses to two of the best teams in the division and absolutely nothing noteworthy amongst their 8 wins.  What do you do with that?  It's difficult to sort through. 

[02 Warhawk]

How can you make that assumption when really the WIAC has built their reputation on having whitewater be a top 2 team and assuming that because platteville and Oshkosh played them close they are all really good? Maybe Whitewater is not the team we think? Hard to make judgements when really nobody has played anyone. I think the playoffs should be more competitive this year then possibly the past 5 years

But that's not why the WIAC has the reputation they do. The WIAC did really well against non conference teams this season.  This was discussed a few pages back. The #2 team in the WIAC beat the #2 team in the OAC by 3 touchdowns this year. Also, when UWW doesn't make a post season run, usually another WIAC team takes its place with a deep playoff push (i.e. Oshkosh - 2012)

I do agree with you about the playoffs being more competitive this year. UWW does have some holes, as does Linfield, St. Thomas and Mount Union. Maybe that means this is MHB's year?

[ExTartanPlayer]

How can you make that assumption when really the WIAC has built their reputation on having whitewater be a top 2 team and assuming that because platteville and Oshkosh played them close they are all really good? Maybe Whitewater is not the team we think? Hard to make judgements when really nobody has played anyone. I think the playoffs should be more competitive this year then possibly the past 5 years

But that's not why the WIAC has the reputation they do. The WIAC did really well against non conference teams this season.  This was discussed a few pages back. The #2 team in the WIAC beat the #2 team in the OAC by 3 touchdowns this year. Also, when UWW doesn't make a post season run, usually another WIAC team takes its place with a deep playoff push (i.e. Oshkosh - 2012)

Agree.  I'm often defending "the little guy" on the boards and/or saying we shouldn't judge teams solely by the league they play in, but the WIAC's non-Whitewater teams have done plenty in recent years to show there's usually a second (and sometimes a third) top-20 caliber team lurking behind UWW.  Oshkosh won two playoff games last year (including a 42-7 romp over the OAC runner-up) before lsoing to UWW in the quarters.  Platteville beat North Central in a high-profile non-league game last year.  Stevens Point beat North Central in the same kind of game in 2014.  Platteville won a playoff game in 2013.  Oshkosh, as noted, went to the semifinals in 2012 during UWW's hiccup year.  No doubt that UWW is the driving force behind the league's reputation as a powerhouse, but the rest of the league is as good as any from #2 on down, and probably better.

I do think some WIAC fans may overestimate their league as a whole, believing that the entire league would beat champions from some of the lesser leagues, and I don't think that's necessarily true.  But the #2, #3, and #4 teams from the WIAC are surely as good or better than the 2-3-4 teams from any other league, and I think we have enough evidence by now to know that in a given year the WIAC generally produces several top-25-caliber teams.

Incidentally, the OAC used to be able to make a similar claim (in the early 00's, there was a long tradition of OAC #2's getting into the playoffs and crushing everyone they played until hitting Mount again in the quarters or semis).  The last few years have shown us that the rest of the OAC is now quite ordinary. 

[bleedpurple]

How can you make that assumption when really the WIAC has built their reputation on having whitewater be a top 2 team and assuming that because platteville and Oshkosh played them close they are all really good? Maybe Whitewater is not the team we think? Hard to make judgements when really nobody has played anyone. I think the playoffs should be more competitive this year then possibly the past 5 years

You would have to ignore quite a few results this year and in the past to believe that UW-P and UW-O are not really good or that UW-W is not the team we think. It's always hard to make judgements about what will happen in the future. But there is definitely evidence out there. Both UW-W and UW-O made it to the quarters last year and UW-W made it to the semi's. UW-O handled OAC #2 easily. I know this all has been mentioned. But also, UW-W beat the NAIA #2 (at the time and current #5), Morningside by two touchdowns. Morningside went on the beat Doane, the team that displaced them at #2, 69-7.  We can pooh pooh the NAIA if we want, but Morningside is a good football team.

[D O.C.]

LINFIELD layed their egg in the 2nd half in Belton.

[02 Warhawk]

              2016 Week 9 West Fan Poll

Rank      Team           Previous     Points   
1)   UW-Whitewater (8)      1          80     
2)   UW-Oshkosh             2          70   
3)   St. Thomas             3          66   
4)   Linfield               4          51     
5)   St. John's             5t         44     
6)   UW-Platteville         5t         43   
7)   Coe                    7          35     
8)   Monmouth               8          24     
9)   Concordia-Moorhead     10         15   
10)  UW-Stevens Point       N/A         4

Dropped Out: Dubuque

RV)  Whitworth (3), Central (2), Redlands (2), Dubuque (1)


Thanks to those for participating: art76, doolittledog, Walla Walla Wildcat, desertcat1, HansenRatings, TwoArmedScott, wartnight and 02 Warhawk

[02 Warhawk]

 
1)  UW-Whitewater (8)      80      ( 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1)
2)  UW-Oshkosh             70      ( 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
3)  St. Thomas             66      ( 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3)
4)  Linfield               51      ( 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6)
5)  St. John's             44      ( 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 8)
6)  UW-Platteville         43      ( 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 7, 7, 8)
7)  Coe                    35      ( 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8)
8)  Monmouth               24      ( 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9)
9)  Concordia-Moorhead     15      ( 7, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, -, -)
10) UW-Stevens Point        4      ( 9,10,10, -, -, -, -, -)

RV) Whitworth               3      (10,10,10, -, -, -, -, -)
RV) Central                 2      ( 9, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)
RV) Redlands                2      (10,10, -, -, -, -, -, -)
RV) Dubuque                 1      (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)

[HansenRatings]

Surprised I'm the only vote for Central. Looking at their results versus mutual opponents between them and Dubuque, it seems like they're probably the better team to me, and in their game against DBQ, they probably played better overall if you ignore their fluky turnover performance.

I can see Redlands sneaking in on some ballots, and it makes sense, but the Trinity loss is "meh" and they're winning a lot of close games by 1-score margins, so I'm not convinced they're that good.

[Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat]

I'm not sure about any of the schools outside the WIAC, MIAC, and Linfield.  Is Coe really any good?  The 2015 conference winner got stomped by STJ in Round 1 but in other years the league has been a tough out.  Monmouth is a real question mark as it would seem that if they played in a different conference that they wouldn't be undefeated at this point.  CM gets a vote because they played STU so tough.

I voted for Redlands because... well... wasn't impressed with Whitworth enough which puts Central right with them and who knows about Dubuque... Probably a bunch of teams that are about the same...

I did move Linfield up ahead of UWP given their performance on Saturday. That was a Linfield performance that we are used to seeing and if they can sustain that level of play they are going to be a tough out.  George Fox has played everyone tough this year (including UWP - I went to the game) and Linfield simply destroyed them.  We will see if it can carry forward over the next two weeks.

[02 Warhawk]

              2016 Week 10 West Fan Poll

Rank      Team           Previous     Points   
1)   UW-Whitewater (5)      1          75     
2)   UW-Oshkosh             2          70   
3)   St. Thomas (3)         3          69   
4)   Linfield               4          54     
5)   St. John's             5          43     
6)   UW-Platteville         6          40   
7)   Coe                    7          35     
8)   Monmouth               8          24     
9)   Concordia-Moorhead     9          17   
10)  Redlands              N/A          6

Dropped Out: Dubuque

RV)  Central (2), UW-Stevens Point (2), Whitworth (1), Dubuque (1), Northwester (1)


Thanks to those for participating: art76, doolittledog, Walla Walla Wildcat, desertcat1, HansenRatings, TwoArmedScott, wartnight and 02 Warhawk