FB: Region 6 fan poll

[bleedpurple]

Sure, comparatively speaking, Mount and NCC "haven't played anybody" yet this year (though we all know Wabash is a worthy program, just down a bit this year).  That said, both Mount and NCC have crushed every opponent so far.  We know what good football looks like at the D3 level, and they're certainly playing very good football to this point.    In my view, one does not need to draw on past year's performance to gauge this year's teams.  They're really good.

Also, huge tip of the cap to SJU, UWW, UMHB, Hardin, and others, for really playing grade A non-conference opponents to start the year.  It's made September fun to follow and none of those teams should be overly punished by voters for outcomes in those game. 

Only 4 weeks into the season, and to me the biggest question mark at this point is Linfield.  They've only played 2 games and have looked pedestrian in each.  October will give us a better read on how they are this year.

I actually agree with Pat's post, this post, and Smed's post.  I think all of the above can be true.  Mount and NCC are surely fine teams and are worthy of their #1 and #2 ranking. In a sense, their recent history (and in Mount's case, long. history) has established them as elite programs. But it's also likely true that neither of them would be #1 if UMHB hadn't scheduled UW-W.  Again, I am engaging in this entire conversation knowing it's just fun discussion, not something that determines the arc of anyone's season.

[smedindy]

Sure, comparatively speaking, Mount and NCC "haven't played anybody" yet this year (though we all know Wabash is a worthy program, just down a bit this year).  That said, both Mount and NCC have crushed every opponent so far.  We know what good football looks like at the D3 level, and they're certainly playing very good football to this point.    In my view, one does not need to draw on past year's performance to gauge this year's teams.  They're really good.

Also, huge tip of the cap to SJU, UWW, UMHB, Hardin, and others, for really playing grade A non-conference opponents to start the year.  It's made September fun to follow and none of those teams should be overly punished by voters for outcomes in those game. 

Only 4 weeks into the season, and to me the biggest question mark at this point is Linfield.  They've only played 2 games and have looked pedestrian in each.  October will give us a better read on how they are this year.

I actually agree with Pat's post, this post, and Smed's post.  I think all of the above can be true.  Mount and NCC are surely fine teams and are worthy of their #1 and #2 ranking. In a sense, their recent history (and in Mount's case, long. history) has established them as elite programs. But it's also likely true that neither of them would be #1 if UMHB hadn't scheduled UW-W.  Again, I am engaging in this entire conversation knowing it's just fun discussion, not something that determines the arc of anyone's season.

Well, scheduled is fine. Lost is another. Had they not lost, they'd be pretty well consensus #1 especially after pole-axing Hardin Simmons.

Heck, they still could be #1 after all if Wheaton beats NCC and Mount looks average against JCU or Heidelberg. But those are BIG ifs, because I think both of those teams are the cream of the crop right now, and everyone else looks like a semi-finalist (depending on the draw of course).

[Toby Taff]

For me the question of reward is what does the AA do with the SOS data at playoffs. If it rewards soft sos and punishes teams that challenged themselves early, do teams just schedule victims to avoid the loss. My hope is the OOC SOS scheduling is rewarded by the selection committee to encourage more of it.

[Dr. Doolittle]

Strength of schedule can help you or bite you in the butt!  A weak non-conference sos will make your team look good and get stats, but will not prepare you for the tough game.  While a strong sos can prepare you to become a better team, you can lose an early game to hurt your ranking, as some of the historic D3 programs have this season.

[bleedpurple]

Sure, comparatively speaking, Mount and NCC "haven't played anybody" yet this year (though we all know Wabash is a worthy program, just down a bit this year).  That said, both Mount and NCC have crushed every opponent so far.  We know what good football looks like at the D3 level, and they're certainly playing very good football to this point.    In my view, one does not need to draw on past year's performance to gauge this year's teams.  They're really good.

Also, huge tip of the cap to SJU, UWW, UMHB, Hardin, and others, for really playing grade A non-conference opponents to start the year.  It's made September fun to follow and none of those teams should be overly punished by voters for outcomes in those game. 

Only 4 weeks into the season, and to me the biggest question mark at this point is Linfield.  They've only played 2 games and have looked pedestrian in each.  October will give us a better read on how they are this year.

I actually agree with Pat's post, this post, and Smed's post.  I think all of the above can be true.  Mount and NCC are surely fine teams and are worthy of their #1 and #2 ranking. In a sense, their recent history (and in Mount's case, long. history) has established them as elite programs. But it's also likely true that neither of them would be #1 if UMHB hadn't scheduled UW-W.  Again, I am engaging in this entire conversation knowing it's just fun discussion, not something that determines the arc of anyone's season.

Well, scheduled is fine. Lost is another. Had they not lost, they'd be pretty well consensus #1 especially after pole-axing Hardin Simmons.

Heck, they still could be #1 after all if Wheaton beats NCC and Mount looks average against JCU or Heidelberg. But those are BIG ifs, because I think both of those teams are the cream of the crop right now, and everyone else looks like a semi-finalist (depending on the draw of course).

So, I guess that's where we really disagree. You say that NCC and Mount "are the cream of the crop" right now. I say, there's little to no evidence that their 2022 version is any better than UW-W or UMHB. Had they scheduled either of them, they may well be the teams that look "like a semi-finalist".  Maybe not of course, but my contention is we have no way of knowing. I will keep UW-W out of my argument because of my admitted bias, but I believe UMHB would beat NCC. Mount is a different issue with their prolific passing game and I know HSU exposed the CRU a bit in that area.  But I also think the CRU could score a ton on Mount. 

[bleedpurple]

For me the question of reward is what does the AA do with the SOS data at playoffs. If it rewards soft sos and punishes teams that challenged themselves early, do teams just schedule victims to avoid the loss. My hope is the OOC SOS scheduling is rewarded by the selection committee to encourage more of it.

This.  Probably the most important point of all.

[smedindy]

Sure, comparatively speaking, Mount and NCC "haven't played anybody" yet this year (though we all know Wabash is a worthy program, just down a bit this year).  That said, both Mount and NCC have crushed every opponent so far.  We know what good football looks like at the D3 level, and they're certainly playing very good football to this point.    In my view, one does not need to draw on past year's performance to gauge this year's teams.  They're really good.

Also, huge tip of the cap to SJU, UWW, UMHB, Hardin, and others, for really playing grade A non-conference opponents to start the year.  It's made September fun to follow and none of those teams should be overly punished by voters for outcomes in those game. 

Only 4 weeks into the season, and to me the biggest question mark at this point is Linfield.  They've only played 2 games and have looked pedestrian in each.  October will give us a better read on how they are this year.

I actually agree with Pat's post, this post, and Smed's post.  I think all of the above can be true.  Mount and NCC are surely fine teams and are worthy of their #1 and #2 ranking. In a sense, their recent history (and in Mount's case, long. history) has established them as elite programs. But it's also likely true that neither of them would be #1 if UMHB hadn't scheduled UW-W.  Again, I am engaging in this entire conversation knowing it's just fun discussion, not something that determines the arc of anyone's season.

Well, scheduled is fine. Lost is another. Had they not lost, they'd be pretty well consensus #1 especially after pole-axing Hardin Simmons.

Heck, they still could be #1 after all if Wheaton beats NCC and Mount looks average against JCU or Heidelberg. But those are BIG ifs, because I think both of those teams are the cream of the crop right now, and everyone else looks like a semi-finalist (depending on the draw of course).

So, I guess that's where we really disagree. You say that NCC and Mount "are the cream of the crop" right now. I say, there's little to no evidence that their 2022 version is any better than UW-W or UMHB. Had they scheduled either of them, they may well be the teams that look "like a semi-finalist".  Maybe not of course, but my contention is we have no way of knowing. I will keep UW-W out of my argument because of my admitted bias, but I believe UMHB would beat NCC. Mount is a different issue with their prolific passing game and I know HSU exposed the CRU a bit in that area.  But I also think the CRU could score a ton on Mount.

North Central has one non-conference game and they kept it in region and scheduled an historically good team. They've gone away from NAIA land and usually schedule close to home. 2019 they did go to Christopher Newport, but that was going to be a good matchup then C-N fell off a ledge. It happens. I like that they've scheduled teams like Wabash, Aurora and Lake Forest in the past few years.

Mt. Union also has one non-conference game. They've also tried to stay close to home, except for a home-and-home against NC Wesleyan.

Again scheduling UW-W and UMHB may sound 'nice', but we're dealing with one game, and it seems like a philosophy of sticking nearby if possible. (I know UW-W is 'nearby' for North Central but they schedule Week 2 as their non-conference while UMU schedules week 1 - UW-W was occupied.) UMHB did get an extra non-conference game this year thanks to Bellhaven leaving, but you still have to fit their NC games in the first two weeks since conference play starts Week 3 for them now.

It's a tough puzzle.

[smedindy]

The bottom of the rankings will be...interesting. The SCIAC and NWC all have interlocking common wins and losses that 'cancel' each other out.

Chapman is the main culprit - beating Pacific who beat Pomona-Pizer who beat Chapman.

Chapman beat Cal Lutheran who beat PLU who beat George Fox who beat Chapman.

[bleedpurple]

Sure, comparatively speaking, Mount and NCC "haven't played anybody" yet this year (though we all know Wabash is a worthy program, just down a bit this year).  That said, both Mount and NCC have crushed every opponent so far.  We know what good football looks like at the D3 level, and they're certainly playing very good football to this point.    In my view, one does not need to draw on past year's performance to gauge this year's teams.  They're really good.

Also, huge tip of the cap to SJU, UWW, UMHB, Hardin, and others, for really playing grade A non-conference opponents to start the year.  It's made September fun to follow and none of those teams should be overly punished by voters for outcomes in those game. 

Only 4 weeks into the season, and to me the biggest question mark at this point is Linfield.  They've only played 2 games and have looked pedestrian in each.  October will give us a better read on how they are this year.

I actually agree with Pat's post, this post, and Smed's post.  I think all of the above can be true.  Mount and NCC are surely fine teams and are worthy of their #1 and #2 ranking. In a sense, their recent history (and in Mount's case, long. history) has established them as elite programs. But it's also likely true that neither of them would be #1 if UMHB hadn't scheduled UW-W.  Again, I am engaging in this entire conversation knowing it's just fun discussion, not something that determines the arc of anyone's season.

Well, scheduled is fine. Lost is another. Had they not lost, they'd be pretty well consensus #1 especially after pole-axing Hardin Simmons.

Heck, they still could be #1 after all if Wheaton beats NCC and Mount looks average against JCU or Heidelberg. But those are BIG ifs, because I think both of those teams are the cream of the crop right now, and everyone else looks like a semi-finalist (depending on the draw of course).

So, I guess that's where we really disagree. You say that NCC and Mount "are the cream of the crop" right now. I say, there's little to no evidence that their 2022 version is any better than UW-W or UMHB. Had they scheduled either of them, they may well be the teams that look "like a semi-finalist".  Maybe not of course, but my contention is we have no way of knowing. I will keep UW-W out of my argument because of my admitted bias, but I believe UMHB would beat NCC. Mount is a different issue with their prolific passing game and I know HSU exposed the CRU a bit in that area.  But I also think the CRU could score a ton on Mount.

North Central has one non-conference game and they kept it in region and scheduled an historically good team. They've gone away from NAIA land and usually schedule close to home. 2019 they did go to Christopher Newport, but that was going to be a good matchup then C-N fell off a ledge. It happens. I like that they've scheduled teams like Wabash, Aurora and Lake Forest in the past few years.

Mt. Union also has one non-conference game. They've also tried to stay close to home, except for a home-and-home against NC Wesleyan.

Again scheduling UW-W and UMHB may sound 'nice', but we're dealing with one game, and it seems like a philosophy of sticking nearby if possible. (I know UW-W is 'nearby' for North Central but they schedule Week 2 as their non-conference while UMU schedules week 1 - UW-W was occupied.) UMHB did get an extra non-conference game this year thanks to Bellhaven leaving, but you still have to fit their NC games in the first two weeks since conference play starts Week 3 for them now.

It's a tough puzzle.

Yes, it is a tough puzzle.

But, for the record, UW-W contacted North Central about playing week 2 before the Mary Hardin-Baylor game was set and they had no interest in playing us. None of this is about the point I was making, though. I was not criticizing NCC or Mount Union for how they schedule. Heck, it will probably help them get a #1 seed.  I was just saying based on their competition, right now we couldn't possibly know how if they are good enough to put a semi-final ceiling on UW-W or Mary Hardin-Baylor. In NCC's case, we now have more data with a nice win in the battle for the Little Brass Bell.

[Dr. Doolittle]

The bottom of the rankings will be...interesting. The SCIAC and NWC all have interlocking common wins and losses that 'cancel' each other out.

Chapman is the main culprit - beating Pacific who beat Pomona-Pizer who beat Chapman.

Chapman beat Cal Lutheran who beat PLU who beat George Fox who beat Chapman.

PLU beating George Fox was a surprise considering they did it with the back up QB after he was knocked out in the CLU game the previous week.  PLU has a decent defense and run game.  Chapman is down this year based on their record and watching them vs CLU earlier this season.  P-P seems to be the team to beat this season in SCIAC, but CLU can play with anyone when they play defense.  Six straight shutout quarter with second half shut out vs PLU and Whittier game.  Redlands game will tell a lot about CLU and if they are good or not.  This is a very interesting/competitive year.

[wm4]

PLU beating George Fox was a surprise considering they did it with the back up QB after he was knocked out in the CLU game the previous week.  PLU has a decent defense and run game.  Chapman is down this year based on their record and watching them vs CLU earlier this season.  P-P seems to be the team to beat this season in SCIAC, but CLU can play with anyone when they play defense.  Six straight shutout quarter with second half shut out vs PLU and Whittier game.  Redlands game will tell a lot about CLU and if they are good or not.  This is a very interesting/competitive year.

Really appreciate the info and perspective on the SCIAC/NWC. 

[MonroviaCat]

The bottom of the rankings will be...interesting. The SCIAC and NWC all have interlocking common wins and losses that 'cancel' each other out.

Chapman is the main culprit - beating Pacific who beat Pomona-Pizer who beat Chapman.

Chapman beat Cal Lutheran who beat PLU who beat George Fox who beat Chapman.

PLU beating George Fox was a surprise considering they did it with the back up QB after he was knocked out in the CLU game the previous week.  PLU has a decent defense and run game.  Chapman is down this year based on their record and watching them vs CLU earlier this season.  P-P seems to be the team to beat this season in SCIAC, but CLU can play with anyone when they play defense.  Six straight shutout quarter with second half shut out vs PLU and Whittier game.  Redlands game will tell a lot about CLU and if they are good or not.  This is a very interesting/competitive year.

I think they (the announcers) said the starting QB for the PLU-Fox game was their 3rd stringer.....and he got knocked out of the game near the end and another guys came on to seal the victory.  Regarding the SCIAC.  I think any of Redlands (if they can just find some O-linemen to block they will be pretty good), Pomona (great QB), Claremont (stout D and good running game) and possibly CLU (need to see how they fair against more solid competition) could win it this year.  That being said, I would not be at all surprised to see a multi-team tie and a Rose Bowl Rule playoff selection.

[Dr. Doolittle]

The bottom of the rankings will be...interesting. The SCIAC and NWC all have interlocking common wins and losses that 'cancel' each other out.

Chapman is the main culprit - beating Pacific who beat Pomona-Pizer who beat Chapman.

Chapman beat Cal Lutheran who beat PLU who beat George Fox who beat Chapman.

PLU beating George Fox was a surprise considering they did it with the back up QB after he was knocked out in the CLU game the previous week.  PLU has a decent defense and run game.  Chapman is down this year based on their record and watching them vs CLU earlier this season.  P-P seems to be the team to beat this season in SCIAC, but CLU can play with anyone when they play defense.  Six straight shutout quarter with second half shut out vs PLU and Whittier game.  Redlands game will tell a lot about CLU and if they are good or not.  This is a very interesting/competitive year.

I think they (the announcers) said the starting QB for the PLU-Fox game was their 3rd stringer.....and he got knocked out of the game near the end and another guys came on to seal the victory.  Regarding the SCIAC.  I think any of Redlands (if they can just find some O-linemen to block they will be pretty good), Pomona (great QB), Claremont (stout D and good running game) and possibly CLU (need to see how they fair against more solid competition) could win it this year.  That being said, I would not be at all surprised to see a multi-team tie and a Rose Bowl Rule playoff selection.

I agree that there will likely be several one loss teams in the SCIAC this year.  Rose Bowl rules will be interesting.

[Dr. Doolittle]

 possibly CLU (need to see how they fair against more solid competition) could win it this year. 

CLU had Chapman and failed on a 2 pt conversion for the win (losing by one pt and the week before in Texas lost by one point) , and beat PLU which beat George Fox?  What do you consider solid competition?  They should be undefeated, so we will see this Saturday how they play!

[olddog]

Dr. D, making reference to Whittier in backing your team up, tough pill to swallow.....This is the worse Whittier team I have seen in my memory. I can not find one stud, I can remember Whittier going 2-7, yet having a couple guys get invited to a Pro Day or doing a free agent try out....I doubt any of the 22 starters would start on UR's 0-4 team...maybe a linebacker would play. They are horrible, I think I might be in the O line rotation and I can remember Suspension Helmets.

CLU will get tested against UR. UR defense is very credible. Coaches have had two weeks to fix their issues, plus knowing UR playing time is wide open now. I am sure practices are very feisty.
UR is going to have to establish some kind of run game, I don't know if its more plays down hill, 12 Formation, refining RPO's....My vote is to play down hill, send TE down on backers. UR has gotten away from using a FB, I think we may see one. I hope we don't see the same thing.