2015 D3 Season: NATIONAL PERSPECTIVE

[TennesseeJed]

Anyone know, or know where to find out how websites like Hero and Massey rank the teams the way they do? Which of these (I'm sure there is more) are the most reliable?

Who sneaks on the new rankings coming out tomorrow? Seems like a good number of teams toward the bottom of the top 25 have dropped games over the last week. Should see some new faces.

Here's some info on Massey to get you started:  http://www.masseyratings.com/theory/index.htm. 

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

Anyone know, or know where to find out how websites like Hero and Massey rank the teams the way they do? Which of these (I'm sure there is more) are the most reliable?

Who sneaks on the new rankings coming out tomorrow? Seems like a good number of teams toward the bottom of the top 25 have dropped games over the last week. Should see some new faces.

Massey seems to be the more accurate and therefore reliable source as compared to the Bennett rankings(Hero).

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

D3 Soccer Top 25 Poll

Through games of Sunday, October 11, 2015

#   School (1st Pl. Votes)   Record   Pts.   Prev.
1   Franklin & Marshall (15)   12-0-0   982   1
2   Amherst (5)   10-0-0   956   2
3   Montclair State   13-1-0   860   5
4   Brandeis   10-1-1   859   3
5   Kenyon   9-1-0   854   4
6   Calvin   12-0-1   718   8
7   Whitworth   10-0-1   714   7
8   Trinity (Texas)   11-2-0   696   10
9   Christopher Newport   9-0-4   680   6
10   UW-Whitewater   12-2-0   603   11
11   Elizabethtown   11-1-1   564   12
12   Carnegie Mellon   8-2-1   542   13
13   Thomas More   10-1-1   488   17
14   Eastern   11-0-1   458   19
15   Plattsburgh State   11-1-2   444   20
16   Denison   9-1-1   381   9
17   DePauw   8-1-2   349   24
18   Texas-Dallas   11-1-1   313   —
19   Oneonta State   9-3-1   311   14
20   Loras   7-3-1   299   22
21   Eastern Connecticut   10-2-1   215   15
22   Tufts   6-3-1   192   25
23   UW-Oshkosh   10-1-2   183   —
24   Connecticut College   8-2-1   103   —
25   Messiah   8-3-1   99   —
Dropped out: No. 16 RPI, No. 18 Rutgers-Camden, No. 21 St. Lawrence, No. 23 Kean

Receiving Votes: MIT 70, RPI 62, Haverford 46, Kean 44, Case Western Reserve 44, Middlebury 42, Ohio Wesleyan 38, Stevens 36, Mass-Boston 30, Rowan 26, St. Lawrence 20, Emory 18, Salisbury 14, Brockport State 12, Keuka 12, Cabrini 10, Occidental 10, Skidmore 8, Colorado College 6, Penn State-Behrend 6, Endicott 4, Macalester 4, Lycoming 4, Hobart 2

[PaulNewman]

So, roughly in order of placement, compared to new D3 poll, I have Haverford, OWU, Colorado College, Skidmore, and MIT IN, and D3 instead has Carnegie Mellon, Denison, Tex-Dallas, ECSU, and Conn Coll.

Head to head that would result in:

Haverford vs CMU
OWU vs Denison
Colorado College vs Tex-Dallas
Skidmore vs ECSU
MIT vs Conn College

Interesting how that sort of lined up with regional or near-regional match-ups.

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

So, roughly in order of placement, compared to new D3 poll, I have Haverford, OWU, Colorado College, Skidmore, and MIT IN, and D3 instead has Carnegie Mellon, Denison, Tex-Dallas, ECSU, and Conn Coll.

Head to head that would result in:

Haverford vs CMU
OWU vs Denison
Colorado College vs Tex-Dallas
Skidmore vs ECSU
MIT vs Conn College

Interesting how that sort of lined up with regional or near-regional match-ups.

As I said yesterday, you were pretty spot on. Well done!!!

[Golden_Fan]

National Poll for 10/13

http://www.nscaa.com/rankings/4643

[Flying Weasel]

Well, as a long-time critic of the NSCAA's rigid national rankings (which for many years inflexibly placed the regional #1's in spots 1 thru 8, the #2's in spots 9 thru 16 and so on and only in the past couple years allowed some exceptins to that framework, but not too much), let me say that this week's rankings are a welcomed break from that past as they mixed things up a bit.

New England: #2, #7, #21
East: #12, #20, #22
Mid-Aatlantic: #1, #8, #16
South Atlantic: #5, #13, #25
Great Lakes: #6, #9, #19
Central: #3, #18, #24
North: #11, #14, #17, #23
West: #4, #10, #15

Now they still have regional balance in how many teams are included, but the order was more flexible than I have ever seen  Now maybe they have been like this previously this year as I haven't paid close attention thus far.

[blooter442]

...which for many years inflexibly placed the regional #1's in spots 1 thru 8, the #2's in spots 9 thru 16 and so on

What?! Thankfully I've not been around the game long enough to have been around for that, but I would have been pulling my hair out. #antilogic

Surprised that Brandeis' home tie with previously unranked MIT - who I think deserves its top 25 spot - didn't drop it more than one spot. FW, maybe you know: how much does a tie against a lesser-ranked (or nationally unranked) team generally hurt a team's ranking? I only ask because I overheard a Tufts player and his parents talking after the Brandeis game, saying that "a tie would have been fine [in terms of ranking, but the loss means that we'll go down quite a bit.]" I can very much understand a loss having crippling effects, but I still don't fully understand the effect a tie has.

[Flying Weasel]

Intersting to note that North Park made the NSCAA national rankings but didn't even get a vote in the D3soccer.com poll.  I'm not sure I'd have them in my Top 25, but still surprising no one gave them a vote as their 25th or 24th team, especially when looking over who did get votes. 

Similarly you'd think that beating Trinity once (3-1 at home) and taking them to double overtime in San Antonio the next time would have gotten Colorado more support. Again, I'm not sure I'd pick them in my Top 25, but figured more might have done so as one of their last couple team on their ballot.

[Flying Weasel]

...which for many years inflexibly placed the regional #1's in spots 1 thru 8, the #2's in spots 9 thru 16 and so on

What?! Thankfully I've not been around the game long enough to have been around for that, but I would have been pulling my hair out. #antilogic

But you have.  The first NSCAA rankings this year on September 15 (http://www.nscaa.com/rankings/4323/NCAADivisionIII/men/National/Poll1) broke down exactly like that:

New England: #1, #10, #19, #25
East: #8, #13, #21
Mid-Aatlantic: #4 #11, #22
South Atlantic: #7, #9, #18
Great Lakes: #3, #12, #17
Central: #5, #15, #24
North: #6, #14, #23
West: #2, #16, #20

Each region had one team in the top eight (#1 - #8), one team in the next eight (#9 - #16), and one more in following eight (#17 - #24) with New Engalnd getting a fourth team in at #25.  No regional #2 is ahead of any other region's #1 ranked team, and no regional #3 is ahead of any other region's #2 team.  That was this year and that breakdown is not coincidence.  This is what the NSCAA has been doing for decades.  There is no NSCAA national poll.  No one votes nationally for the NSCAA rankings.  Coaches vote regionally for the regional rankings and then somehow they concoct this national ranking (misnamed a national poll) from the regional polling.

[TheSwayzeTrain]

Just keeps getting worse for RPI. In the Top 10 to not even receiving votes in two polls and next up on their schedule is @ St. Lawrence. Tough times in Troy at the moment.

[Wisco21]

FW, maybe the committee is remembering North Park's waning form in the second half of last year. They lost to 1W-10L North Central (Ill.) at home this past Saturday.

In 2014, NPU goes 9W-1L in first half of season, and 4W-4L-1T in the second half, ending with a 2OT loss to Thomas More College in the NCAA first round.

I hope this is a just a conference fluke and they will recover, because after seeing them play live earlier this season.....boy, were they a fun group to watch.

[NERevs127]

Surprised that Brandeis' home tie with previously unranked MIT - who I think deserves its top 25 spot - didn't drop it more than one spot. FW, maybe you know: how much does a tie against a lesser-ranked (or nationally unranked) team generally hurt a team's ranking? I only ask because I overheard a Tufts player and his parents talking after the Brandeis game, saying that "a tie would have been fine [in terms of ranking, but the loss means that we'll go down quite a bit.]" I can very much understand a loss having crippling effects, but I still don't fully understand the effect a tie has.

The tie obviously helped MIT more than it helped Brandeis but you also have to remember Brandeis turned around and got a 2-1 away win at then #16 Case Western this week as well. That must have been why there was not a drastic drop after a second blemish on their record. Ties are an interesting result as it gives both the team 1/2 the points in their win percentage and barley changes either teams SOS or record. NSCAA doesn't seem too worried about SOS in their regional rankings and are more concerned at overall record. See the New England Rankings as an example

[lastguyoffthebench]

Discount Double Check...

http://herosports.com/college-rankings/d3-mens-soccer-rankings/

NESCAC rated as the 11th strongest conference.

See who rounds out the top 5.

[Flying Weasel]

I'm no NESCAC fan, but what?!?!?  Normally these mathematical rankings exaggerate the strength of the NESCAC and UAA.  11th?  Beaten by a conference that doesn't even exist anymore!  And why again should I give Bennett/Hero the time of day?