2015 D3 Season: NATIONAL PERSPECTIVE

[Nutmeg]

NCAC, I agree with your points..... . Do u think middle tier ussda players are a notch higher in terms of quality than top non-ussda players?

[PaulNewman]

NCAC, I agree with your points..... . Do u think middle tier ussda players are a notch higher in terms of quality than top non-ussda players?

Yes, I do, as a generalization, and with the caveat that there definitely exceptions.  There are excellent players who don't want to give up playing high school soccer, and while I understand the DAP philosophy I think a good number of the mid- to lower tier USSDA players are the losers by the high school rule.  Especially for the kind of kids who can be real difference makers at the D3 level, I think high school provides a forum for those players to be leaders and to develop a stronger sense of playing for a real team.  And I say that fully admitting that high school play dwarfs in comparison with DAP.  There are also location issues.  A really good player who lives on Cape Cod, for example, is going to have a difficult time accessing one of the two Mass DAP teams.  The older Savonen is a great example of this, and a great example of a non-DAP player becoming an All-American at the D3 level.  I'm sure there are many others and it would be interesting to go through the D3 All American teams to see how many were DAP and non-DAP.  There are also late bloomers.  Some of the kids who have been at the top and in pre-DAP and DAP programs since age 13 or 14 may burn out, and there are certainly examples of less acclaimed non-DAP players who arrive on campus very hungry and who beat out their DAP teammates for playing time.  But yes, all that said, DAP/USSDA is obviously the superior venue to play club level soccer.

I think this is going to be a really interesting season, and perhaps the most wide open D3 season in years.  Messiah will definitely be in the hunt and a serious title contender, but they won't be a landslide favorite as in recent years.  The Tufts story will be interesting.  Wheaton and Oneonta will be forces.  Amherst and SLU will still be there knocking on the door.  Some of us in the East may be sleeping on teams like Loras, Trinity and Whitworth.  And then there are teams like F&M, Kenyon, Brandeis, Rochester, etc who have made a name for themselves but still haven't knocked the door down.  And then some surprises will emerge, like a Thomas More, maybe a Gordon, maybe a Babson or Wheaton (MA).

One last comment regarding our prior discussion.  I suspect that very few D3 coaches worth their salt make any promises about playing or starting for all 4 years to any recruits, which isn't to say that they don't have a pecking order and push hard with admissions for real studs.  For one thing, it's just too hard to predict how kids are going to show up in terms of fitness and how they will respond to all that college has to offer (especially socially).  In hindsight, and let me admit up front that I was very critical at the time, Shapiro's biggest and most important move may have been putting Santos and Hoppenot on the bench for stretches early in the season.  Think about that.  Santos was a USSDA player who I am sure is one who could have played D1 and arguably the most talented player ever recruited in Tufts history, and after taking some hits to his pride in his senior season he came up big in the tournament.

[deutschfan]

The ability of D3 coaches to push for real studs in admissions is one reason I think you will see more mid-quality USSDA players ending up in D3 schools.  Unless you are a tier 1 USSDA or national pool player the Ivies, Stanford etc. are not going to bend very much if at all in their admissions standards.  Yet, a mid-level fulltime USSDA player can make up a lot of ground with admissions with a D3 coach pulling for them.  These players, who may not see professional soccer in their future, may want to become engineers, bankers, doctors or lawyers by obtaining an education at NESCAC or UAA schools, or schools of the likes of MIT, Cal Tech, Hopkins, Swarthmore, Haverford, Pomona, Claremont, Vassar or Carleton.  They will use soccer to help them ratchet up the academic quality of the school they attend.  Their leverage is greater at the D3 schools given the paucity of USSDA applicants.  I am surprised that the top academic D3 programs haven't seen more USSDA players flock to them to date but I believe that is the future.  Another reason why more USSDA players will look to D3 schools across the board is the availability of non-athletic scholarship money, but that is a whole different topic.       

[PaulNewman]

The ability of D3 coaches to push for real studs in admissions is one reason I think you will see more mid-quality USSDA players ending up in D3 schools.  Unless you are a tier 1 USSDA or national pool player the Ivies, Stanford etc. are not going to bend very much if at all in their admissions standards.  Yet, a mid-level fulltime USSDA player can make up a lot of ground with admissions with a D3 coach pulling for them.  These players, who may not see professional soccer in their future, may want to become engineers, bankers, doctors or lawyers by obtaining an education at NESCAC or UAA schools, or schools of the likes of MIT, Cal Tech, Hopkins, Swarthmore, Haverford, Pomona, Claremont, Vassar or Carleton.  They will use soccer to help them ratchet up the academic quality of the school they attend.  Their leverage is greater at the D3 schools given the paucity of USSDA applicants.  I am surprised that the top academic D3 programs haven't seen more USSDA players flock to them to date but I believe that is the future.  Another reason why more USSDA players will look to D3 schools across the board is the availability of non-athletic scholarship money, but that is a whole different topic.       

I think you're on to something, while noting that the segment of the population seeking college who also care a lot about the prestige of the schools above is significant but limited.

[deutschfan]

Another possible reason for a trend toward USSDA players looking at D3 schools is that the opportunities for college graduates desirous of playing professional soccer are decreasing rather than increasing due to the proliferation of foreign nationals coming to play professionally in the United States.  This is especially true in the MLS, but also can be seen as you look down the rosters of USL teams.  Club and high school coaches, and parents, should be counseling players to focus on non-soccer vocations, and the colleges that will further those pursuits, when choosing whether to play D1 or D3.   

[PaulNewman]

Speaking of Thomas More, they appear to be beefing up their non-conference slate to perhaps compensate for weak conference affiliation (although they did play Denison, Centre, Transy and DePauw last year, only losing to the latter away).

at Case Western
at Capital

Denison
Centre

at Heidelberg
at Transylvania

DePauw

Will be interesting to see if the D1 transfer pipeline from nearby Northern Kentucky Univ continues.

[D3soccerwatcher]

Wheaton (Ill), Messiah, Calvin, etc are a little different in that they may attract some D1 talent because of a higher calling.  That said, there is a huge difference between getting offers at bottom 150 D1s where a kid is going to fighting for his life for serious playing time, and going to a top 50 D1 as a legitimate impact player.  I'd be curious to know where the Tufts Chicago-area kid drew real D1 interest.  If he was that good, one would think Duke, Stanford, UVA, UNC, Michigan, Notre Dame, Boston College, etc would be reasonable options from an academic point of view.  Transfers from D1 to D3 I think sort of speak for themselves.

And of course I forgot about the Ivies.  A kid who qualifies academically and believes he can be a starter at an Ivy rarely is going to pick even the most academically prestigious D3s.  How many D3 players might arguably make a D1 roster (with marginal prospects for real playing time) is of course an entirely different question.

I don't believe Messiah has any recruits this year out of the USSDA.  Looks like all played for their high schools.  I think this is a pretty normal occurrence year in and year out at Messiah.

[Flying Weasel]

I'm not up on all this academy and club stuff, but just doing a little looking and self-educating, I see that Messiah has an incoming player that played with PA Classics (Ben Haines) and another who played with Albertson SC (Nick West).  Both those clubs are listed as USSDA academies.

Last year's incoming class had players from DC United (Josh Bender) and N.C. Fusion (Kirby Robbins).  The group entering in 2013 included players from Baltimore Bays (Jacob Bender), DC United (Danny Brandt), FC Dallas (Raul Serrano), FC DELCO (Robby Johnson), and PA Classics (Austin Jeffrey).  The group entering in 2012 included players that had spent time with Philadelphia Union (Benji Kennel) and PA Classics (Bryant Meyer). 

Now I don't know how much these guys played and at least a couple (maybe more) were not playing with that club the final year before entering Messiah.  And I think they all played high school soccer, and from some posts above it sounds like you can't play both high school and USSDA.  So do these clubs have their USSDA teams and non-USSDA teams?  Like I said, I know next to nothing about youth soccer these days.

[Corazon]

Yes, many non-MLS clubs field both USSDA (their best players) and club teams.  Much of the  identifying/and later, recruiting, happens during U16 USSDA games.  Thus, it is not that uncommon for some players to make their college commitment (primarily for the D3 commitments) and then skip playing U18 USSDA altogether during their senior year in order to play high school so just looking at their senior year can be deceptive.  Some players game the system, and play high school, then join USSDA mid-season to avoid the no-HS rule.  All this stuff and the rules is still evolving ...

I have no idea about the Messiah players, but the USSDA roster/games played/start %/goals is available to the public, so if someone were willing to invest the time, it will not be that difficult to research. Many of the profiles also gives a decent background on the player, which I've always found useful in understanding the player.  I'm sure the college coaches are on the USSDA sites constantly, researching and following players.

I personally do not like this shift to USSDA, as the program is designed (National team scouting) for maybe 5% of the players who actually play in USSDA.  I believe the true "Academy System" should be limited to the MLS teams and the rest should focus on the holistic approach of developing student athletes.  But hey, perhaps it is just me, as the current trend is just the opposite.

[yurmama69]

Maryville College Commits - http://www.mcscots.com/sports/msoc/2014-15/releases/20150515bmvtkv

[yurmama69]

Sewanee announces commits - http://sewaneetigers.com/sports/msoc/2015-16/releases/20150603dbjamy

[Domino1195]

As a child it may sound - romantic? exclusive? elitist? to get a DI scholarship.  To parents - forget about it. I love it when I ref youth games and hear parents talk about their kid being on a DI scholarship track - the kid's 9 or 10.

By the time a player gets to age 16-17 they know where they fit in - scholastically, academically, etc. (even if their parents are still clueless). My son talked to several standout athletes from his HS - those who went DI, DII and DIII. The DI students talked of the schedule, commitment ("ownership of your soul") expected - some stayed, some transferred. One girl - had multiple DI offers for volleyball and basketball - chose DIII.  For one, she didn't want to chose only one sport. But more importantly, she wanted to be a student athlete have have more control of her time.

And DIII money, for those academically inclined, can be more than many DI athletes get. Another HS teammate was named academy player of the year 2x, had 7 DI offers.  He didn't get a "full ride" until his junior year - and still half of that comes from his academic awards.

The player referenced in the article below received 1/12 scholarship to play lacrosse at Ohio St.  I have known the boy since he was 8 - he commented his first week at Capital how the food service people greeted him, and how they knew his name after a couple weeks. He had no regrets making the switch (and his financial aid at Cap exceeded that which he got at OSU):

http://columbusfreepress.com/article/why-division-iii-after-flirting-division-i-programs-three-local-lacrosse-players-find-happy

As far as academies go - nationals are this weekend - you can see how many academy teams made it:  http://championships.usyouthsoccer.org/2015_national_championships_team_previews/

Also related to academies - on the largest stage - see the article about Barcelona's academy.  I think the discussion between "develop or buy" is sliding further towards buy.  See the new MLS policy - Targeted Allocation Money: it's all headed in the same direction.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/these-football-times/2015/jul/16/barcelona-la-masia-academy-decline-neymar-pedro

[Joe Wally]

Yes, many non-MLS clubs field both USSDA (their best players) and club teams.  Much of the  identifying/and later, recruiting, happens during U16 USSDA games.  Thus, it is not that uncommon for some players to make their college commitment (primarily for the D3 commitments) and then skip playing U18 USSDA altogether during their senior year in order to play high school so just looking at their senior year can be deceptive.  Some players game the system, and play high school, then join USSDA mid-season to avoid the no-HS rule.  All this stuff and the rules is still evolving ...

I have no idea about the Messiah players, but the USSDA roster/games played/start %/goals is available to the public, so if someone were willing to invest the time, it will not be that difficult to research. Many of the profiles also gives a decent background on the player, which I've always found useful in understanding the player.  I'm sure the college coaches are on the USSDA sites constantly, researching and following players.

I personally do not like this shift to USSDA, as the program is designed (National team scouting) for maybe 5% of the players who actually play in USSDA.  I believe the true "Academy System" should be limited to the MLS teams and the rest should focus on the holistic approach of developing student athletes.  But hey, perhaps it is just me, as the current trend is just the opposite.

Do the academies in Europe solely provide soccer training to the kids, or do they provide an educational program to them as well?

[jknezek]

Yes, many non-MLS clubs field both USSDA (their best players) and club teams.  Much of the  identifying/and later, recruiting, happens during U16 USSDA games.  Thus, it is not that uncommon for some players to make their college commitment (primarily for the D3 commitments) and then skip playing U18 USSDA altogether during their senior year in order to play high school so just looking at their senior year can be deceptive.  Some players game the system, and play high school, then join USSDA mid-season to avoid the no-HS rule.  All this stuff and the rules is still evolving ...

I have no idea about the Messiah players, but the USSDA roster/games played/start %/goals is available to the public, so if someone were willing to invest the time, it will not be that difficult to research. Many of the profiles also gives a decent background on the player, which I've always found useful in understanding the player.  I'm sure the college coaches are on the USSDA sites constantly, researching and following players.

I personally do not like this shift to USSDA, as the program is designed (National team scouting) for maybe 5% of the players who actually play in USSDA.  I believe the true "Academy System" should be limited to the MLS teams and the rest should focus on the holistic approach of developing student athletes.  But hey, perhaps it is just me, as the current trend is just the opposite.

Do the academies in Europe solely provide soccer training to the kids, or do they provide an educational program to them as well?

Depends on the academy. The top academies do both. Other academies are soccer only but make arrangements for the schooling.

[Joe Wally]

Thanks!

Just wondering how the United States takes its next steps in its evolution as a soccer nation.