2015 D3 Season: NATIONAL PERSPECTIVE

[lastguyoffthebench]

Also strange to see Messiah ranked at 22 in D3soccer poll with Rowan at 25.  Salisbury at 20 with Eastern RV.

Thomas More should be getting more love with the D3soccer poll as well; 24 seems harsh.  Could easily see Thomas More in the 12th slot, with Calvin at 24th.

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

Also strange to see Etown receive votes in NSCAA this week but not last week? Would have flip flopped that if anything but I wouldn't have even given them a vote.

Messiah vs Etown tomorrow night at 7pm. Will learn a lot about both teams.

And yes to your TMC statement. Top 20 in my books. And 15 is the right spot for them in the NSCAA poll.

[lastguyoffthebench]

Also strange to see Etown receive votes in NSCAA this week but not last week? Would have flip flopped that if anything but I wouldn't have even given them a vote.

Messiah vs Etown tomorrow night at 7pm. Will learn a lot about both teams.

And yes to your TMC statement. Top 20 in my books. And 15 is the right spot for them in the NSCAA poll.

Etown benefited from the Drew loss to TCNJ...

[Mr.Right]

Also strange to see Messiah ranked at 22 in D3soccer poll with Rowan at 25.  Salisbury at 20 with Eastern RV.

Thomas More should be getting more love with the D3soccer poll as well; 24 seems harsh.  Could easily see Thomas More in the 12th slot, with Calvin at 24th.

I agree...Messiah should not be ranked at all and especially not ahead of Rowan.

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

Another head scratcher is Washington University (Mo.) being 14th in the NSCAA? Really? Why are they even ranked? There are 2 other UAA schools ranked behind them that are better!!! Crazy.

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

I don't even think they RV in the D3 Poll?!?!?!?!?!?!

[PaulNewman]

In the same breath, Kenyon hasn't really played anyone either; Overachieving CMU and Centre.

at Waynesburg (0-8)
Otterbein (4-3-1)
Heidelberg (2-4-3)
Carnegie Mellon (6-1-1)
Marietta (4-5)
at Centre (4-4-1)
at Muskingum (3-5)
Wittenberg (3-6-2)

Very true, and that ends starting tomorrow, although they do have the advantage of every remaining "brand-name" game being at home except for OWU.

[PaulNewman]

DePauw @TMC starts at 2:30.  Should be a good one.

[Flying Weasel]

When you have teams make surprisingly or unexpectedly good starts, it's always interesting to see who voters (and fans on boards like these, for that matter) rally around and who they seem to take a wait-and-see attitude.  Sometimes an upset of a top team is the catalyst to getting recognition, but sometimes there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it.  Speaking of upsets, it's similarly interesting to see how voters (and fans) treat teams that pull off upsets (or nearly pull off upsets) and the teams they upset (or nearly upset).  Certainly isn't always consistent.

So we always have plenty of material for discussion when it comes to the rankings. I agree with many who claim that this team or that team seems too high.  F&M's 9-0-0 isn't what I'd call impressive.  Christopher Newport's undefeated 8-0-2 mark has it's share of question marks even when looking at some of their wins.  Whitworth out of the northwest is always something of a mystery because they don't play enough games against teams we are familiar with and who play other teams we know so we can get somewhat of a guage.  Calvin, unlike most seasons, did not have any measuring-stick type opponents on the schedule in the first couple weeks, so how do you evaluate them?  BUT . . . if not them, than who?  To move someone down, you need to move somebody up in their place.  Not easy.

The idea that Messiah shouldn't be ranked or other top teams that have stumbled is valid.  But we must remember that there's all different ways to look at what the rankings are supposed to be and what they are to represent (best accumulative results to date, best accumulative performance to date, who's playing the best at the moment, etc.).  And I can imagine that some voters who may actually have been looking to un-rank a Messiah after their disastrous week when they tied Gettysburg and lost to Rowan, still found it hard to do because they think to themselves on Monday as they are completing their ballot, if Messiah played so-and-so this Wednesday who would I expect to win?  Who would I put my money on, if I were a  betting man?  That is, who do I really think is better and has the better chance/likelihood of winning next time out, all things being equal?  And could they answer those questions with 25 or more potential opponents?

In a similar sense to how we can say that the scoreboard says Team B won but can still believe (and with good reason often) that Team A is the better team, I think voters could potentially acknowledge that results to date are better for Team Z, but still feel that Team Y is better.  Not saying that is right, but that partially depends on what you think the rankings are trying to be and trying to represent, something that is rarely expressed or discussed and which, if it was, I don't think you'd find much consensus.  In the case of Messiah, however, it's not a case of unlucky results losing games 1-0 despite outshooting the opponent by a wide margin; there's plenty of hard evidence to make one doubt Messiah's credentials as a Top 25 team, but I can still imagine some voters unable to say that there's 25 teams they think would be favored over Messiah in a game tomorrow.

Peculiarities with the relative ranking of Salisbury and Eastern after the later beat the former, and likewise with Messiah and Rowan, have already been mentioned.  Voters are probably wise to again take a wait-and-see approach to undefeated Wabash, but they didn't have much hesitation thrusting Denison up into the middle of the rankings despite a so-so schedule (the Thomas More victory looking better all the time, though).  Has Denison proved anything more than Eastern?  than Gettysburg? Maybe. Maybe not. And has Elizabethtown really proved as much as Eastern, Gettysburg or other teams below or just "receiving votes"? I also think about how a couple weeks ago Trinity (Texas) climbed to No. 1 right after needing overtime to edge past Texas-Dallas who matched them statistically anyways.  I expected Trinity to hold or slip slightly, but instead they grabbed the top spot that no one seemed ready to claim.  However, what is maybe equally interesting is that it didn't seem to garner much attention for Texas-Dallas.  The Comets are now 8-1-1 and slowly inching up through the "Receiving Votes" teams.  Not saying Texas-Dallas should be ranked (Trinity going out and losing twice in one week doesn't help their case).

Anyway, there are always different ways to look at the same results and how to evaluate each result within the larger context of the season.  And this year is crazier than ever for contradictory results that complicate any ranking effort.  Most years things start sorting themselves out as the season moves along and more results are in to help us know what were aberrations versus telling signs.  And it may largely work out that way again this year, but, then again, maybe not.  It could be that every time we think we have a team figured out, they throw up a result or performance that makes us uncertain all over again.

[PaulNewman]

Absolutely agree, FW.  The actual and potential dynamics that impact our perceptions are complicated.  You're right, I'm not sure I'd pick 5 teams to beat Messiah, much less 25.  And, this example perhaps says it best for me....on Saturday, during the game, I was thinking "I'm not sure anyone is going to beat Tufts this year" while I was watching them lose.  And if by some chance, as another example, Kenyon is still highly ranked with a great record towards the end of the season when they play a lower or unranked OWU, most posters here will pick OWU because of the infamous psychological advantage.

[Mr.Right]

Seems like besides the 3 Nescac tilts and a handful of other games today, the games on Wednesday will really be impacting some conferences.

[Mr.Right]

After comparing Thomas More and Calvin's resumes.....Thomas More certainly deserves to be in Calvin's spot in the rankings. Wins over OWU, Case Western and Centre are certainly more impressive than anything even on Calvin's schedule.

[blooter442]

Watching Wheaton vs. Brandeis and the Wheaton radio announcer in the background is hilarious, speaking in the manner of a hybrid auctioneer/baseball announcer. I'm enjoying it.

The big thing, though, was Wheaton's website led to the NESJ D3 outlook, which says that Tufts is the "first program to win the NCAA title by winning six road games." I don't believe this is true - it appears that Messiah did so in 2008. I know that - assuming they qualify - Messiah rotates year-by-year whether they host or not, but when they won it in 2008 they played at Rochester, CNU, and Greensboro. Am I missing something, or is this just an oft-cited yet incorrect claim?

[Mr.Right]

Blooter, how is the 1st half going? I plan on catching the 2nd half

[blooter442]

Pretty uneventful so far, about 50-50 possession with no real chances. Still don't understand why 'Deis persists with playing Bradley upfront - he's quick and he's over 6' so provides some height but he has not been good on any occasion that I've seem him this year aside from Hardin-Simmons.

Update: Brandeis goes 1-0 up in the 32nd minute, Michael Chaput putting home a rebound after his shot hit the post. Incidentally, he scored on Brandeis' last visit to Norton in 2013.