2015 D3 Season: NATIONAL PERSPECTIVE

[Wisco21]

Posted this in another thread, however I didn't know if you guys only checked up on specific topics or not. So anyway:

A recent former player from UWO, Daniel Kobin, has put out a video for his final undergraduate project before graduating in a week or so. His four years spanned from 2011-2014. Thought you guys might be interested as it's really well put together.



https://www.facebook.com/dannykobin/videos/10153785434576419/?pnref=story

[lastguyoffthebench]

Is it just me, or was Amherst on their heels for the final 80 minutes of the game vs Oneonta St?   

The Lord Jeffs have definitely been a top three program over the last 4 years (#2 behind Messiah 12', 13'), but could argue for #1 considering overall record, conference championships, and tourney runs.  Given the senior leadership, anything but a Final Four appearance would have been an extreme underachievement this season.  Amherst should be able to reload with ease and be primed for another run in 2016. 

I'm also looking forward to Williams and Middlebury for 2016...  I'm sure that Middlebury already has their schedule 90% set, and would hope they schedule some strong out of conference foes.

Amherst
Middlebury
Williams
Tufts
Bowdoin
Wesleyan
Connecticut
Trinity

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Where does Messiah 2011-2014 class fit in all time?  Even with 1-0 losses to Neumann and Tufts in 2011 and 2014, I believe this to be their best class ever, as well as one of the best in NCAA history.    Had Messiah beaten Tufts, they would have likely 3 peated as National Champions with a record of 89-2-5.

[Shooter McGavin]

Where does Messiah 2011-2014 class fit in all time?  Even with 1-0 losses to Neumann and Tufts in 2011 and 2014, I believe this to be their best class ever, as well as one of the best in NCAA history.    Had Messiah beaten Tufts, they would have likely 3 peated as National Champions with a record of 89-2-5.

Best Class Ever in D3 History. Hands down.

And the 2013 team is arguably the best ever team we have seen(as discussed and debated in previous posts).

[Jump4Joy]

Is it just me, or was Amherst on their heels for the final 80 minutes of the game vs Oneonta St?

Oneonta looked dangerous in areas just outside the box, but this observation might be a bit hyperbolic?

Amherst outshot Oneonta, 16-14: 5-3 in the first half, matched them 6-6 in the second, hung close at 3-4 in OT1 and went 2-1 in OT2.
Oneonta GK had to make one more save than Amherst's GK. Teams were even on CKs.

[firstplaceloser]

Where does Messiah 2011-2014 class fit in all time?  Even with 1-0 losses to Neumann and Tufts in 2011 and 2014, I believe this to be their best class ever, as well as one of the best in NCAA history.    Had Messiah beaten Tufts, they would have likely 3 peated as National Champions with a record of 89-2-5.

Best Class Ever in D3 History. Hands down.

And the 2013 team is arguably the best ever team we have seen(as discussed and debated in previous posts).

100% accurate. I don't think messiah will ever be that good again

[Shooter McGavin]

All:

Without naming names and getting into details, reasons, excuses, forgetfulness, etc. that may or may not be self-incriminating, there will be a final D3soccer.com Top 25 poll.  It will be late.  Hopefully Friday.

Friday....Monday....same thing lol 

[lastguyoffthebench]

Friday the 18th...

[Shooter McGavin]

Friday the 18th...

Yeah that's what I figured but just assumed last week that it would be the 11th since that was the same week it came out last season. The anticipation is killing me! 

[lastguyoffthebench]

CSS Massey Rating SOS the last 4 years:

2015: 268
2014: Not updated
2013: 322
2012: 321

2014: 339

[lastguyoffthebench]

Colorado ranked?  Smh

Atleast give St. Olaf or W&L some love.  And the Champs from the power conferences should also be ranked; Bowdoin, Camden.    Other than that... looks good to me.

[Shooter McGavin]

Not a good showing in the final poll. What a mess. 

Looks like the NSCAA wins this round.

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

As unfair as it may be that Colorado, Middlebury, and Etown not making NCAA's may be...they should not be ranked in the final rankings if they did not make the tournament. Just my personal opinion.

The top 6 is pretty solid and clear cut. That was the easy part. One big flaw that stands out to me is Ohio Wesleyan JUMPING to #12 from #16. They lost in the second round of NCAA's with a 16-5-2 record...meanwhile a team like Lycoming who was previously #12 in the final regular season poll at 16-1-2 finishes the season 18-2-2 and lost to the eventual national champions in the third round DROPS to #13?? If someone from the rankings committee has any logic on that I would love to hear it. Christian? Ryan? Come on guys that's just poor. Obviously I am bias being a middle atlantic regional fan which is why I am okay with F&M ahead of Lycoming in this poll and Lycoming ahead of F&M in the other poll because they are very similar in their resumes. But jumping a team 4 spots after going 1-1 in the tournament and 5 overall losses then punishing a team for losing in a better round to the champions and finishing with 2 losses? Really? Just not logical at all.

The next MAJOR flaw, as LastGuy and Shooter previously mentioned, is the acceptance of Etown, Middlebury, Colorado, Conn. College, CWR, and Kean into the rankings. If they did not make the NCAA tournament then they should not be ranked. If anything put them in the RV section, but Etown, Middlebury, and Colorado should not be stealing places from teams like St. Olaf, Chicago, Macalester, Wash. U., Wash. Lee, Stevens, RPI, CMU, Gordon, Camden, Bowdin, Plattsburgh, etc. The list of omissions goes on and on.

Another big question mark goes back to my first point I made. So St. Lawrence moves from #20 to #15 after losing in the third round to Haverford and finishes with a 16-4-2 record. They entered 14-3-2. But Lycoming loses in the third round by the same margin to the eventual CHAMPS(note that St. Lawrence lost to an elite 8 team) and drops a spot? They entered with a better record than St. Lawrence finished with! I'm just so lost on the thought process that goes into some of the placements of teams? MIT is in the same boat! Jumps 5 spots in the same scenario. I don't get how losing in the third round to teams who didn't even make the final by a 2-0 margin makes a team jump 5 spots but the team who lost 2-0 to the eventual champions drops a spot? Bizarre.

How St. Olaf is not ranked is beyond me? Sure they have 7 or 8 losses but they also made it to the third round and was 1 of 16 teams left in the country. They HAVE TO BE at least 25th. Have to be. Feel very sad for them being omitted after the great run they had.

Very surprised that Montclair St. is in the top 15 let alone almost cracking the top 10 after losing in the second round.

Scranton not even RV?? Really? They beat your Etown team who you have ranked 20th AND advanced to the 2nd round NCAA's!

UWW barely gets out of the first round then loses in the second round but is ahead of 2 third round teams in DePauw and Tufts(and St. Olaf who isn't ranked). Makes sense right? 

I know I seem tense above and I am with some stuff but I want you to know that, like I said before in previous posts, we appreciate the rankings and all you do for the website. I am just hoping to get some answers and provide a spark for some good conversation and debate. But usually I tend to agree more with the D3Soccer poll than the NSCAA but that has switched for me for this year. Not sure if new people were invited to the rankings committee or if people are pushing their own agenda but there are some serious errors and omissions in my eyes with these final rankings.   

[Shooter McGavin]

Preach it MAF ^^^^

[blooter442]

Preach it MAF ^^^^

I don't necessarily have any issue with the D3soccer top 25, but as much as I usually have qualms with the NSCAA poll I did find it to be pretty on-point this year, particularly from the later weeks of October onward.

My own personal belief — a team should have to make it to the round with X teams left in order to be ranked X or higher at the end of the season. Just out of principle. I think that saying Team A is better than Team B even though Team B has a better record is justifiable perhaps in September and October, but not in November when one-and-done becomes the motto.

A great example: Brandeis. They were a Sweet 16 team, and while No. 8 in the D3soccer poll isn't an outlandish rank, that they didn't make the Elite 8 yet were still ranked ahead of Wheaton was something I disagreed with. Personally, I would have flip-flopped Brandeis and Wheaton, so it was not an egregious mistake. In another forum, I argued that No. 9 in the NSCAA poll was the perfect ranking for Brandeis, as I didn't think they were quite an Elite 8 team, yet I think they were better than any other Sweet 16 team (MIT, SLU, Tufts, etc.) based on their body of work throughout the season. Now, one could make the argument that one of those teams was more talented than Brandeis, and I wouldn't reject it, but I'd have Brandeis above a team that finished 11-5-3 (Tufts) or an identical 18-3-1 with a significantly weaker schedule (MIT). SLU's 16-4-2 is comparable, so I would imagine the argument there would be stronger, but would still take the Judges. Disclaimer: could just be the homer in me.

Regardless, I think a team should make the Sweet 16 to be ranked 16th or higher, the Elite 8 to be 8th or higher, etc. Ultimately, there may be more talented teams out there, and things could flip-flop based on overachieving/underachieving squads, but hypothetical situations should never be given much credence when the facts (rounds that a team makes it to) are right there for all to see.

[Puerco Espin]

While I believe that the points you two have made have been spot on, there is one situation that comes to mind that could make for an interesting case.

Teams A, B, C, D are in the Final Four.

Team A beats Team B 1-0 in OT.
Team C beats Team D 2-1.

So then for the title, Team A beats Team C 5-1.

Would you automatically rank Team C better than Team B, despite the lopsided loss?

Just something to consider.