2015 NCAA North Region

[Mr.Right]

If we are talking about the same guy who has been doing Loras' games the past few years, I find no problem in his announcing. The feed is so good that you kind of just block him out. I usually lower the volume because to me he is a little loud but he does have a passion for his team which is commendable.

[KICKIN95]

Just to put the announcer thing to bed,  he isn't the same announcer from 2 or 3 years ago. That was the former SID and he was a fantastic announcer, not as biased as you would expect. The new announcer and also the new SID may not have the same player based background, but is still quite knowledgeable about the game and does a better job than 90% of other teams announcers I have heard. If you are looking for EPL quality commentating you might want to stick to EPL matches.

[Cheesehead Henry]

Some schools don't even have announcers, so anything more than nothing is certainly an improvement.

[Wisco21]

Lol Kickin I love a solid D3 match just as much as the next guy, it's just that the Loras announcer is just not my flavor. Plus I have ties to UWO so my bias versus the DuHawks will always be present!

[Medicated Pete]

North Park 1 - 0 UW Whitewater last night. Very hard fought game by both but in the end NP came out on top with the W. Lots of jawing going on during the match. CR stop the game several times to keep peeps under control.

https://youtu.be/tuO0_EZarDo

[KICKIN95]

Lol Kickin I love a solid D3 match just as much as the next guy, it's just that the Loras announcer is just not my flavor. Plus I have ties to UWO so my bias versus the DuHawks will always be present!

I hate you Wisco21, how dare you not be a lover of the DuHAwks!

[Wisco21]

Lol Kickin I love a solid D3 match just as much as the next guy, it's just that the Loras announcer is just not my flavor. Plus I have ties to UWO so my bias versus the DuHawks will always be present!

I hate you Wisco21, how dare you not be a lover of the DuHAwks!

Number one reason I stopped lurking and made an account for these boards, love the banter!

[PaulNewman]

Lol Kickin I love a solid D3 match just as much as the next guy, it's just that the Loras announcer is just not my flavor. Plus I have ties to UWO so my bias versus the DuHawks will always be present!

I hate you Wisco21, how dare you not be a lover of the DuHAwks!

Kickin I'm giving you + karma on this and I LOVE Wisco21!  After my team, I am rooting for Loras, UW-W,Brandeis or SLU to win the national title.

And Kickin, do you think your top players out there in the Central and North Regions are OVERRATED or UNDERRATED?  Any thoughts on East Coast bias?

[Cheesehead Henry]

I'll chime in to this question as well, if you don't mind NCAC . I tend to think the East Coast bias only aids in helping all of the midwest's soccer programs just in the fact that not many teams know of the teams that well. It adds a flame under our butts if you will, and only adds to the satisfaction when the teams we root for can fly under the radar and do well in the national tournament. With the exception of Loras and Wheaton (both of these two teams' storied success this last decade have not gone unnoticed), not many Easterners could name a couple competitive teams or even players from the Midwest. Teams like St. Johns, St. Olaf, Carleton, MSOE (although the rise of the Andryk brothers has helped them), Wartburg, Luther, and Univ. of Dubuque often don't get the recognition they deserve. I'm confident that if the above 7 teams went out East and played some teams out there, the competitiveness of these teams and the scorelines would catch a lot of people off guard.

[KICKIN95]

Lol Kickin I love a solid D3 match just as much as the next guy, it's just that the Loras announcer is just not my flavor. Plus I have ties to UWO so my bias versus the DuHawks will always be present!

I hate you Wisco21, how dare you not be a lover of the DuHAwks!

Kickin I'm giving you + karma on this and I LOVE Wisco21!  After my team, I am rooting for Loras, UW-W,Brandeis or SLU to win the national title.

And Kickin, do you think your top players out there in the Central and North Regions are OVERRATED or UNDERRATED?  Any thoughts on East Coast bias?

I do think there is an East Coast bias, but there's also a super majority of the DIII players and fans to support them.  Loras (and other North & Central Region teams for that matter ) has had many players left off of AA squads because of this.  The numbers are so lop sided that you have to be an Uber player to even be considered. The past 5 years Loras has had a handful of 2nd team and Hon Men AA and I  believe 1 1st teamer. You place those 2nd team and HonMen in the East Coast and they are 1st teamers. One example is last years IIAC Defensive POY from Loras Mike Pizzello.  He was also the leading scorer in the conference with 14 goals.  A man child that dominated matches. He would have been a 1st teamer, but being in this Region I believe  kept him out of the top slot. 

[Gregory Sager]

North Park 1 - 0 UW Whitewater last night. Very hard fought game by both but in the end NP came out on top with the W. Lots of jawing going on during the match. CR stop the game several times to keep peeps under control.

https://youtu.be/tuO0_EZarDo

NPU dominated the match. The Vikings had the run of play and UWW was only able to get the ball into the forward third a scant few times throughout the match. The Warhawks mustered only one shot on goal all night, and really only had one good chance (a Warhawk couldn't quite align a backside tip off of a corner). Most of their offense consisted of thunderous free kicks from distance by 6'8, 240 behemoth defender Justin Stanko.

The Warhawks defense is very good, and they did an outstanding job of holding NPU at bay for 89 minutes and 50 seconds, but I'm a little surprised that the Vikings didn't get on the scoreboard earlier than that. They certainly had multiple opportunities. As for the jawing and the contact, yeah, it was a chippy affair, but it was more a matter of how badly the two squads wanted it than it was of dirty play or inherent animosity. (Coach Born and Coach Guinn have great respect for each other.)

UW-Whitewater went deeper into the bench than it did the night before against Loras, as Coach Guinn had a regular shuttle going in and out in order to keep his people as fresh as they could possibly be, considering the circumstances. The Warhawks' road-weariness was balanced out by the fact that North Park is a M*A*S*H unit right now, with multiple injuries and illnesses being suffered by key NPU personnel.

Great match to watch, even on a night when most of NPU's student section (Foster's Finest) was unable to make it to the stadium.

[Flying Weasel]

Regarding possible East Coast bias in the All-American teams, here's a simple tally of the D3soccer.com All-Americans since they started naming teams in 2010.

D3soccer.com All-Americans (2010-2014)

Region	Total	1st Team
New England	22	5
East	20	8
Mid-Atlantic	27	13
South Atlantic	23	8
Great Lakes	20	7
Central	15	5
North	24	7
West	14	2
TOTAL	165	55

2014 D3soccer.com All-Americans

Region	Total	1st Team
New England	6	2
East	2	0
Mid-Atlantic	6	3
South Atlantic	3	1
Great Lakes	4	1
Central	7	4
North	3	0
West	2	0
TOTAL	33	11

2013 D3soccer.com All-Americans

Region	Total	1st Team
New England	5	0
East	5	0
Mid-Atlantic	5	3
South Atlantic	7	4
Great Lakes	2	1
Central	2	1
North	4	2
West	3	0
TOTAL	33	11

2012 D3soccer.com All-Americans

Region	Total	1st Team
New England	5	2
East	6	3
Mid-Atlantic	6	2
South Atlantic	1	1
Great Lakes	4	1
Central	1	0
North	6	2
West	4	0
TOTAL	33	11

2011 D3soccer.com All-Americans

Region	Total	1st Team
New England	3	0
East	5	3
Mid-Atlantic	4	1
South Atlantic	4	0
Great Lakes	7	3
Central	2	0
North	5	2
West	3	2
TOTAL	33	11

2010 D3soccer.com All-Americans

Region	Total	1st Team
New England	3	1
East	2	2
Mid-Atlantic	6	4
South Atlantic	8	2
Great Lakes	3	1
Central	3	0
North	6	1
West	2	0
TOTAL	33	11

Based on those numbers, I'm not sure you can make a strong case for any east coast bias.  The West Region hasn't gotten much, but let's be honest, the West has been pretty poor over that time period.  The Central is the next lowest represented, which may be somewhat surprising, but Wheaton wasn't a top team again until the last couple years and the region lost some of  it's better teams to the creation of the North Region back around 2008 or so.  The North Region got their share it would appear.  The North got more overall than New England, the East, and the South Atlantic, and had an average number of 1st Teamers. The Mid-Atlantic leads in total and 1st Team selections, but that's probably mostly due to a dominate Messiah team more than a bias in favor of that region as a whole. When the NESCAC fans see this they will scoff at claims of east coast bias when their region was on the low end of 1st Teamers and only middle of the pack overall.

[KICKIN95]

Regarding possible East Coast bias in the All-American teams, here's a simple tally of the D3soccer.com All-Americans since they started naming teams in 2010.

D3soccer.com All-Americans (2010-2014)

Region	Total	1st Team
New England	22	5
East	20	8
Mid-Atlantic	27	13
South Atlantic	23	8
Great Lakes	20	7
Central	15	5
North	24	7
West	14	2
TOTAL	165	55

2014 D3soccer.com All-Americans

Region	Total	1st Team
New England	6	2
East	2	0
Mid-Atlantic	6	3
South Atlantic	3	1
Great Lakes	4	1
Central	7	4
North	3	0
West	2	0
TOTAL	33	11

2013 D3soccer.com All-Americans

Region	Total	1st Team
New England	5	0
East	5	0
Mid-Atlantic	5	3
South Atlantic	7	4
Great Lakes	2	1
Central	2	1
North	4	2
West	3	0
TOTAL	33	11

2012 D3soccer.com All-Americans

Region	Total	1st Team
New England	5	2
East	6	3
Mid-Atlantic	6	2
South Atlantic	1	1
Great Lakes	4	1
Central	1	0
North	6	2
West	4	0
TOTAL	33	11

2011 D3soccer.com All-Americans

Region	Total	1st Team
New England	3	0
East	5	3
Mid-Atlantic	4	1
South Atlantic	4	0
Great Lakes	7	3
Central	2	0
North	5	2
West	3	2
TOTAL	33	11

2010 D3soccer.com All-Americans

Region	Total	1st Team
New England	3	1
East	2	2
Mid-Atlantic	6	4
South Atlantic	8	2
Great Lakes	3	1
Central	3	0
North	6	1
West	2	0
TOTAL	33	11

Based on those numbers, I'm not sure you can make a strong case for any east coast bias.  The West Region hasn't gotten much, but let's be honest, the West has been pretty poor over that time period.  The Central is the next lowest represented, which may be somewhat surprising, but Wheaton wasn't a top team again until the last couple years and the region lost some of  it's better teams to the creation of the North Region back around 2008 or so.  The North Region got their share it would appear.  The North got more overall than New England, the East, and the South Atlantic, and had an average number of 1st Teamers. The Mid-Atlantic leads in total and 1st Team selections, but that's probably mostly due to a dominate Messiah team more than a bias in favor of that region as a whole. When the NESCAC fans see this they will scoff at claims of east coast bias when their region was on the low end of 1st Teamers and only middle of the pack overall.

I love the stats FW, but it actually demonstrates exactly my point.  The "East Coast" isn't the East Region, I was speaking more geographically and the density of D3 schools in the East vs North & Central.  That being the reason why they are getting more looks and more AA.  Splitting up the teams longitudinally into sectors instead of regions show a much larger disparity, but as I said it will because of the pure density of D3 schools in that area (307 schools to 111 schools).  I split the Great Lakes region giving 26 to East Coast and 26 to Midwest, I am cutting off the Western "Appendix" (no real use for them anymore besides Trinity ) because it wasn't part of the original question.  Averages out to a little over twice as many AA and 2 .42 times as many 1st Teamers.

[Flying Weasel]

Than perhaps I misunderstood something, but the term "bias" was being used and you said that you did believe an "East Coast bias" existed.  If there are more schools in the east than the east should be expected to get proportionally more AA's.  And when that happens, it's not bias at work, its proportionality.  I know what you meant by "East Coast" in the broad sense.  I just stuck with the traditional eight regions to quickly see if there was proportional representation in the AA selections or not.  If there is proportionality when broken up by region, there will continue to be proportionality when grouping regions, and if there is proportionality, then that is evidence (not proof) against the existence of bias.

So, let me take your East vs. Midwest ratios of AA's and 1st Teamers and compare them to the ratio of teams in the East and Midwest and see what that ratio is.  If it's larger than the ratios of AA's and 1st Teamers, the Midwest is getting more than its proportional share; if it's smaller, then the East is getting more than its proportional share.

Using your 50/50 split of the Great Lakes . . .

EAST COAST vs. MID-WEST (Great Lakes split)

	No. of Teams	Total AA's	1st Team AA's
Total (All Teams)	416	165	55
East (N.E., East, Mid-Atl., S. Atl., 1/2 Gr. Lakes)	267 (64%)	102 (62%)	38 (68%)
Midwest (1/2 Gr. Lakes, Central, North)	111 (27%)	49 (30%)	16 (28%)
Ratio (East to Midwest)	2.41	2.08	2.42

And before discussing the results, I also did the comparison neglecting the Great Lakes altogether . . .

EAST COAST vs. MID-WEST (Great Lakes neglected)

	No. of Teams	Total AA's	1st Team AA's
Total (All Teams)	416	165	55
East (N.E., East, Mid-Atl., S. Atl. )	241 (58%)	92 (56%)	34 (62%)
Midwest (Central & North)	85 (20%)	39 (24%)	12 (22%)
Ratio	2.84	2.36	2.83

Looking at the numbers, the East gets a hair less than their proportional share of AA's (-2%), but a little more than their proportional share of 1st Teamers (+4%).  And the extra 1st Teamers are not coming at the expense of the Midwest but rather the West.  The Midwest is getting a little more than their proportional share of AA's (+3 to 4%), and hair more than their proportional share of 1st Teamers (+1 to 2%). 

I'd venture to guess the Messiah factor explains the East's extra 1st Teamers, but it must be repeated that those extra 1st Teamers did not come at the expense of the Midwest which still got a hair more than their proportional share.  To the contrary, when looking at total AA's, it's would appear that the Midwest's extra selections (+3 to 4%) are coming at the East's expense (-2%) resulting in the East only getting twice as many total AA's as the Midwest (2.08) despite actually having almost two and half as many teams (2.41).  Midwest bias!!!!!!! 

I honestly wasn't sure what I was going to find when I did the tallies in my earlier post, and I wanted to see if this perception of east coast bias could be borne out by the data or debunked.  While it might be a little strong to definitively say no bias exists based solely on these numeric computations and comparisons, this evidence certainly runs contrary to the argument that bias exists.  And in rather small margins, it suggests the Midwest has been getting a little more than its proportional share of AA's.

[Brother Flounder]

Than perhaps I misunderstood something, but the term "bias" was being used and you said that you did believe an "East Coast bias" existed.  If there are more schools in the east than the east should be expected to get proportionally more AA's.  And when that happens, it's not bias at work, its proportionality.  I know what you meant by "East Coast" in the broad sense.  I just stuck with the traditional eight regions to quickly see if there was proportional representation in the AA selections or not.  If there is proportionality when broken up by region, there will continue to be proportionality when grouping regions, and if there is proportionality, then that is evidence (not proof) against the existence of bias.

So, let me take your East vs. Midwest ratios of AA's and 1st Teamers and compare them to the ratio of teams in the East and Midwest and see what that ratio is.  If it's larger than the ratios of AA's and 1st Teamers, the Midwest is getting more than its proportional share; if it's smaller, then the East is getting more than its proportional share.

Using your 50/50 split of the Great Lakes . . .

EAST COAST vs. MID-WEST (Great Lakes split)

	No. of Teams	Total AA's	1st Team AA's
Total (All Teams)	416	165	55
East (N.E., East, Mid-Atl., S. Atl., 1/2 Gr. Lakes)	267 (64%)	102 (62%)	38 (68%)
Midwest (1/2 Gr. Lakes, Central, North)	111 (27%)	49 (30%)	16 (28%)
Ratio (East to Midwest)	2.41	2.08	2.42

And before discussing the results, I also did the comparison neglecting the Great Lakes altogether . . .

EAST COAST vs. MID-WEST (Great Lakes neglected)

	No. of Teams	Total AA's	1st Team AA's
Total (All Teams)	416	165	55
East (N.E., East, Mid-Atl., S. Atl. )	241 (58%)	92 (56%)	34 (62%)
Midwest (Central & North)	85 (20%)	39 (24%)	12 (22%)
Ratio	2.84	2.36	2.83

Looking at the numbers, the East gets a hair less than their proportional share of AA's (-2%), but a little more than their proportional share of 1st Teamers (+4%).  And the extra 1st Teamers are not coming at the expense of the Midwest but rather the West.  The Midwest is getting a little more than their proportional share of AA's (+3 to 4%), and hair more than their proportional share of 1st Teamers (+1 to 2%). 

I'd venture to guess the Messiah factor explains the East's extra 1st Teamers, but it must be repeated that those extra 1st Teamers did not come at the expense of the Midwest which still got a hair more than their proportional share.  To the contrary, when looking at total AA's, it's would appear that the Midwest's extra selections (+3 to 4%) are coming at the East's expense (-2%) resulting in the East only getting twice as many total AA's as the Midwest (2.08) despite actually having almost two and half as many teams (2.41).  Midwest bias!!!!!!! 

I honestly wasn't sure what I was going to find when I did the tallies in my earlier post, and I wanted to see if this perception of east coast bias could be borne out by the data or debunked.  While it might be a little strong to definitively say no bias exists based solely on these numeric computations and comparisons, this evidence certainly runs contrary to the argument that bias exists.  And in rather small margins, it suggests the Midwest has been getting a little more than its proportional share of AA's.

All good points and valid statistics, especially given the high number of schools there.....  East Coast bias?