2015 Player Watch

[Brother Flounder]

GK T Bull--Amherst

I think Bull was at his best his Frosh and Soph years. He is still a top level GK in D3 but he is starting to make some mistakes I never saw him make his first two years. Lately he is flying out of net out to the 18 to deal with balls with his feet or head. He also has been dropping an occasional ball or 2 off corners and set pieces that he would normally catch. Who could forget the ball he dropped in the 2014 season opener against Midd. Also he seems a little more awkward getting down almost like a 1/4 step slower doing so. Even with all this nitpicking I still feel he is a top D3 keeper.

Right, I agree with this analysis.  I have watched him over the last 4 years and, so far, his first 2 years were his best.  Yes, he is still a top echelon D3 keeper.....

[PaulNewman]

GK may be the strongest position in the NESCAC.  At least 4 or 5 good enough to be All-Americans.

[Brother Flounder]

MSOE Braden Andryk Sophomore

Younger brother of soon-to-be 4-time All-American Logan Andryk. The two of them together are tough to handle.

13 goals 1 assist through 10 games.

10 goals in last 4 games.

These are very good players... Sometimes I wonder though how they would perform in tougher conferences... would the numbers be so high..... That said, they are excellent players...

[PaulNewman]

MSOE Braden Andryk Sophomore

Younger brother of soon-to-be 4-time All-American Logan Andryk. The two of them together are tough to handle.

13 goals 1 assist through 10 games.

10 goals in last 4 games.

These are very good players... Sometimes I wonder though how they would perform in tougher conferences... would the numbers be so high..... That said, they are excellent players...

Do you know anything about them?  And if not, why would you suggest that they are very good or excellent players?

[PaulNewman]

Mr.Right, how would you rank top 5 GKs in NESCAC?

[Brother Flounder]

MSOE Braden Andryk Sophomore

Younger brother of soon-to-be 4-time All-American Logan Andryk. The two of them together are tough to handle.

13 goals 1 assist through 10 games.

10 goals in last 4 games.

These are very good players... Sometimes I wonder though how they would perform in tougher conferences... would the numbers be so high..... That said, they are excellent players...

Do you know anything about them?  And if not, why would you suggest that they are very good or excellent players?

I have seen them a few times. More importantly, is my other point about schedules...

[PaulNewman]

MSOE Braden Andryk Sophomore

Younger brother of soon-to-be 4-time All-American Logan Andryk. The two of them together are tough to handle.

13 goals 1 assist through 10 games.

10 goals in last 4 games.

These are very good players... Sometimes I wonder though how they would perform in tougher conferences... would the numbers be so high..... That said, they are excellent players...

Do you know anything about them?  And if not, why would you suggest that they are very good or excellent players?

I have seen them a few times. More importantly, is my other point about schedules...

We know your point about conferences and schedules.  You've made that point a few times.  Which games did you watch involving the the MSOE brothers?

[Mr.Right]

Mr.Right, how would you rank top 5 GKs in NESCAC?

Ranking based on THIS year alone, not career or potential.  I will copy and paste on Nescac board as really this is a Nescac issue

1. Midd-                   Greg Sydor
2. Amherst-              Tom Bull
3. Tufts-                   Scott Greenwodd
4. Wesleyan              Jack Katkavich
5. Williams               Christian Alcorn


Stevie Van Siclen is one of the best goalies in the league but has not quite played up to potential this year. Also, I was kind of harsh in my critique at the beginning of the year of Conn's Austin Dacunha as he is beginning to wear on me and I have seen him make some tremendous saves this year.

Trinity's Zabala makes some great saves but also makes some grave mistakes. That also goes for Bates GK Polito.

Not a fan of Pollack of Hamilton and Colby cannot figure out themselves who to start week in and week out.

[Brother Flounder]

MSOE Braden Andryk Sophomore

Younger brother of soon-to-be 4-time All-American Logan Andryk. The two of them together are tough to handle.

13 goals 1 assist through 10 games.

10 goals in last 4 games.

These are very good players... Sometimes I wonder though how they would perform in tougher conferences... would the numbers be so high..... That said, they are excellent players...

Do you know anything about them?  And if not, why would you suggest that they are very good or excellent players?

I have seen them a few times. More importantly, is my other point about schedules...

We know your point about conferences and schedules.  You've made that point a few times.  Which games did you watch involving the the MSOE brothers?

NCAC, do I really have to keep justifying everything for you? Really?

[PaulNewman]

No, you don't, but do you see how it makes a difference?  You want to reach conclusions on players you know literally nothing about just because they are not playing in the NESCAC or some other conference you are more familiar with that you respect.  Advocate for your guys to your heart's content, but please don't make judgments about others for whom you have no basis to make a judgment.  Does that make any sense?

[Brother Flounder]

No, you don't, but do you see how it makes a difference?  You want to reach conclusions on players you know literally nothing about just because they are not playing in the NESCAC or some other conference you are more familiar with that you respect.  Advocate for your guys to your heart's content, but please don't make judgments about others for whom you have no basis to make a judgment.  Does that make any sense?

It doesn't make sense because I have watched them play... Does that make sense?  Please....... I really can't believe I am getting into it again with you.  FYI I saw the older one play with Patrick Hodan of Notre Dame when they played for FC Milwaukee at the USSDA Academy Showcase in Florida for 3 years.  Now, I won't justify myself to you again.  Does that make sense???

[Brother Flounder]

No, you don't, but do you see how it makes a difference?  You want to reach conclusions on players you know literally nothing about just because they are not playing in the NESCAC or some other conference you are more familiar with that you respect.  Advocate for your guys to your heart's content, but please don't make judgments about others for whom you have no basis to make a judgment.  Does that make any sense?

It doesn't make sense because I have watched them play... Does that make sense?  Please....... I really can't believe I am getting into it again with you.  FYI I saw the older one play with Patrick Hodan of Notre Dame when they played for FC Milwaukee at the USSDA Academy Showcase in Florida for 3 years.  Now, I won't justify myself to you again.  Does that make sense???  I should smite you but I am above that.....

[PaulNewman]

No, you don't, but do you see how it makes a difference?  You want to reach conclusions on players you know literally nothing about just because they are not playing in the NESCAC or some other conference you are more familiar with that you respect.  Advocate for your guys to your heart's content, but please don't make judgments about others for whom you have no basis to make a judgment.  Does that make any sense?

It doesn't make sense because I have watched them play... Does that make sense?  Please....... I really can't believe I am getting into it again with you.  FYI I saw the older one play with Patrick Hodan of Notre Dame when they played for FC Milwaukee at the USSDA Academy Showcase in Florida for 3 years.  Now, I won't justify myself to you again.  Does that make sense

OK BF, sure.  Try to remember that YOU brought up the comparisons and initiated this with sweeping generalizations.  One might think you could have described why the brothers (plural) didn't measure up for you.

[Flying Weasel]

NCAC New England, when did Brother Flounder ever say that they didn't measure up?

What he said was . . .

These are very good players... Sometimes I wonder though how they would perform in tougher conferences... would the numbers be so high..... That said, they are excellent players...

I don't read or infer any "didn't measure up" in there at all. 

He does ask a very valid question about what there stats would look like playing in a tougher conference.  And I'm here to say that their stats would almost certainly be lower in a conference where there were more challenging, tight, low scoring games and fewer gimmees.  Simple math: less blow-outs, lower scoring for the team = fewer goals and assists for the players.  Nothing controversial in that.

And you seemed at first to be asking a similarly valid question, but I'm not sure any more.  I thought you wanted to know which games/opponents Brother Flounder had seen them play in/against to know if he saw them play against weak/average/strong opposition.  For example, if someone had a glowing report on a player but it was based upon a blow-out game against a significantly inferior opponent, you might understandably not take the glowing report at face value.  And similarly, if someone wasn't impressed with a player, but here he watched them playing a Top 10 team, you might think it only fair to give the player another chance to show what he can do as top teams and top players can stale-mate each other.

In conclusion, not sure why the argument between you two.  I'm confused.  Did I miss a post in there?

[PaulNewman]

Notwithstanding the history between the said posters regarding exaggerations or very generalized reactions fitting in with the "what about us over here in the NESCAC" theme, which I believe you commented on directly in response to BF just a few weeks ago, you may recall that in this instance you actually responded first to BF, in fact correcting him, after he wrote the following in this very thread...

"I have to disagree with some of these.. No one from Tufts???  No Kayne or Majumder?  Some of the players cited play for teams that have "cake" schedules and not much competition.  I think that is a factor that you have to consider..... And, obviously NESCAC teams play less games so numbers are lower....."

Now obviously I can't be 100% who in the original posted list he was referring to, but just one page later in the thread, after a poster mentions the Andryk brothers positively, BF is then the first poster to jump in and question (I think it's reasonable to suggest was intending to counter the post), and then offered what you noted above.  Perhaps "not measuring up" was too strong, but after already raising the question on the legitimacy of some players being on the actual end-of-the-season real lists from last year, and then chiming in here on the Andryk brothers, I think we could ask "well, who else was he referring to in that first post?" 

At any rate, it was clear to me if not to you (as he basically confirmed in his first response to me), he wanted to reiterate a point about tough conferences and players [perhaps getting too much credit] who might otherwise not have the stats in a tougher conference.  Well, if that's all he was intending, we all know that already, don't we.  But what does that infer, if anything.  IMHO he intended inferences, given, again his first reaction in the thread and the nature of this thread itself.  IMHO these other players from conferences and regions that do not get a lot of attention here should get even more....NOT have their mere mention countered by how incredible the NESCAC is.  And I believe that is very close to the point you made, ironically to BF, about the NESCAC getting plenty of recognition.  Now it's true he didn't use "NESCAC" in what you quoted, but would you think that might be the conference (or one of the conferences) in his head as he's writing that and by association downgrading the stats of those players?

And you're right.  Based on past posting, I was asking him what he was basing his opinion on, given that he did, nonetheless offer an opinion on the players...."very good....still excellent players, though" or words to that effect. He was more than ready to jump into the discussion but then did not want to answer the basis of his judgments.  I don't think he's seen these brothers in college and I've seen similar opinions offered with no basis other than assuming his favored players have to be better.  I don't think he's seen these players play at MSOE.   I sure haven't yet.  He initially ignored that and then later said he had seen the older brother at showcases, so even if true, what, like 4, 5, 6 years ago??  Not really a basis of an assessment of a player in his junior and senior years college seasons or his brother.

Let me know if that still doesn't make sense.