Pool C -- 2015

[Mr. Ypsi]

If IWU loses to Wheaton, they have two losses and that may shake things up a bit and allow a Moravian to sneak in. That also may the only hope Platteville has, too.

Platteville could gain a great assist if NCC makes it into the rankings.

[wabndy]

I still question how much hope one team could place on a win against a team in another region who is on the bubble to making the regional rankings in the first place.  I assume all the RACs are meeting at the same time and are more or less sorting through the same mess.  Do we really expect somebody in the West RAC, mid-meeting, to call up a buddy in the North RAC and ask:"we are trying to figure out whether to slot Platteville 5th, 6th, or 7th- is North Central is going to make it onto your rankings?" 

Cross-regional RRO wins are solid criteria to use in the national selection committee's work to build the bracket or dole out Pool C bids.  But they do little good if Platteville is stuck behind another team and not able to get to Pool C board to begin with.

[wally_wabash]

I still question how much hope one team could place on a win against a team in another region who is on the bubble to making the regional rankings in the first place.  I assume all the RACs are meeting at the same time and are more or less sorting through the same mess.  Do we really expect somebody in the West RAC, mid-meeting, to call up a buddy in the North RAC and ask:"we are trying to figure out whether to slot Platteville 5th, 6th, or 7th- is North Central is going to make it onto your rankings?" 

Cross-regional RRO wins are solid criteria to use in the national selection committee's work to build the bracket or dole out Pool C bids.  But they do little good if Platteville is stuck behind another team and not able to get to Pool C board to begin with.

I have no idea if this happens or doesn't, but logistically I don't think this is as hairy as you're making it out to be.  Two members of each regional committee are themselves co-members of the national committee.  So every regional committee is going to have somebody from the national committee that they should be in touch with now and then who they could blast a text out to with exactly that question.  Text out, text back in what...60 seconds?  I think that's totally doable. 

[USee]

Wally's projections are a great insight into the process. The actual teams he picked may vary substantially after results that are forthcoming.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I still question how much hope one team could place on a win against a team in another region who is on the bubble to making the regional rankings in the first place.  I assume all the RACs are meeting at the same time and are more or less sorting through the same mess.  Do we really expect somebody in the West RAC, mid-meeting, to call up a buddy in the North RAC and ask:"we are trying to figure out whether to slot Platteville 5th, 6th, or 7th- is North Central is going to make it onto your rankings?" 

Cross-regional RRO wins are solid criteria to use in the national selection committee's work to build the bracket or dole out Pool C bids.  But they do little good if Platteville is stuck behind another team and not able to get to Pool C board to begin with.

Never forget that the only regional rankings that matter at all are the final ones (which we don't get to see).  The national committee will know on selection Sunday whether or not NCC is ranked, and can adjust the regional rankings accordingly.

[joelmama]

Didn't it used to be once RR always RR?

[Ralph Turner]

Didn't it used to be once RR always RR?

Yes.

[AO]

I still question how much hope one team could place on a win against a team in another region who is on the bubble to making the regional rankings in the first place.  I assume all the RACs are meeting at the same time and are more or less sorting through the same mess.  Do we really expect somebody in the West RAC, mid-meeting, to call up a buddy in the North RAC and ask:"we are trying to figure out whether to slot Platteville 5th, 6th, or 7th- is North Central is going to make it onto your rankings?" 

Cross-regional RRO wins are solid criteria to use in the national selection committee's work to build the bracket or dole out Pool C bids.  But they do little good if Platteville is stuck behind another team and not able to get to Pool C board to begin with.

I have no idea if this happens or doesn't, but logistically I don't think this is as hairy as you're making it out to be.  Two members of each regional committee are themselves co-members of the national committee.  So every regional committee is going to have somebody from the national committee that they should be in touch with now and then who they could blast a text out to with exactly that question.  Text out, text back in what...60 seconds?  I think that's totally doable.

I'm pretty sure the hoops regional committees do not communicate with each other.  We also learned from the national hoops chair that he was not afraid to change the regional rankings.  The regional commitees are just "advisory" after all. 

Didn't it used to be once RR always RR?

It's much better this way.  Teams that play their toughest competition early were being penalized.  But the real solution would be to rank all the teams in a region.  There's no great difference between #10 and #11.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I still question how much hope one team could place on a win against a team in another region who is on the bubble to making the regional rankings in the first place.  I assume all the RACs are meeting at the same time and are more or less sorting through the same mess.  Do we really expect somebody in the West RAC, mid-meeting, to call up a buddy in the North RAC and ask:"we are trying to figure out whether to slot Platteville 5th, 6th, or 7th- is North Central is going to make it onto your rankings?" 

Cross-regional RRO wins are solid criteria to use in the national selection committee's work to build the bracket or dole out Pool C bids.  But they do little good if Platteville is stuck behind another team and not able to get to Pool C board to begin with.

I have no idea if this happens or doesn't, but logistically I don't think this is as hairy as you're making it out to be.  Two members of each regional committee are themselves co-members of the national committee.  So every regional committee is going to have somebody from the national committee that they should be in touch with now and then who they could blast a text out to with exactly that question.  Text out, text back in what...60 seconds?  I think that's totally doable.

I'm pretty sure the hoops regional committees do not communicate with each other.  We also learned from the national hoops chair that he was not afraid to change the regional rankings.  The regional commitees are just "advisory" after all. 

Didn't it used to be once RR always RR?

It's much better this way.  Teams that play their toughest competition early were being penalized.  But the real solution would be to rank all the teams in a region.  There's no great difference between #10 and #11.

Or at least rank down to, say, 15, and LET US SEE THE DAMNED RANKINGS!!  After all, the committees can sometimes use some help: the West region committee had the wrong D3 records for UWO and UWW - what else might they or other regions err on?  By selection Sunday it might be too late, but we could TRY to help out.  They are the pros, but they are not perfect - and some on here just might catch things they don't.

AO, since the final (secret) rankings are the only ones that count, NO ONE was ultimately penalized by once ranked-always ranked.  Unless your direct competitor beat a good team which was later decimated by injuries, or some similar scenario.

[AO]

AO, since the final (secret) rankings are the only ones that count, NO ONE was ultimately penalized by once ranked-always ranked.  Unless your direct competitor beat a good team which was later decimated by injuries, or some similar scenario.

not sure I follow.  Under the previous rule, every year some lucky teams got extra credit for wins that didn't turn out to be as impressive when all the results were in.

[Mr. Ypsi]

AO, since the final (secret) rankings are the only ones that count, NO ONE was ultimately penalized by once ranked-always ranked.  Unless your direct competitor beat a good team which was later decimated by injuries, or some similar scenario.

not sure I follow.  Under the previous rule, every year some lucky teams got extra credit for wins that didn't turn out to be as impressive when all the results were in.

Yeah, I thought of that soon after I posted, but just now got back on.  I'm sure we can all think of teams that were not all that good but started 7-0 due to scheduling.  But I suspect they are outweighed by legitimately good teams who started well but were decimated by injuries.  It's a matter of did you beat a good team at that time of the season?  Which can be a tough question to answer.

One thing I'm reasonably sure of as a fan: with once ranked-always ranked we did better in predicting the field  as opposed to ONLY the final (ha, ha, you can't see it) rankings.  It is astonishing to me how the NCAA can't see how much that censorship hurts their credibility!

NCAA, what are you trying to hide by not disclosing the final (and ONLY one's that matter) rankings?  Can you possibly imagine how much we suspect you of shenanigans when you pull stuff like that?  Be OPEN.  No matter what you do, it can't be worse than we suspect you of doing when you hide!

[Ralph Turner]

I agree with Ypsi about once ranked, always ranked. The Regional Rankings only consider 15% of the region.

I think that 1-3 schools that are in the running after Week #9 give more breadth and depth to the Pool of teams that can be considered as quality.

I wish we were still once ranked always ranked.

[Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat]

Maybe this has already been discussed but my buddy brought up the idea of reseeding the field for the Quarterfinals as the NCAA travel restrictions are lifted by then (I believe). This way there would be a guarantee that all 4 games have the best chance of being competitive. The playoff committee would be able to seed the teams 1-8 and go from there.

[USee]

Once ranked always ranked should come back. They don't rank the teams until after week 7. There is much less of a chance of pretenders in week 7 than in week 2 or 3. The way it is now penalizes teams like Wabash who will play Depauw in the last game. If Depauw drops that game they may not be ranked in the final rankings and, while Depauw is not a top 5 team in the region, they are certainly a top 8-12 type team. Contrast that with ONU who lost 2 games near the front of their schedule and by virtue of winning out may slide into the top 10 at the end (a phenomena that appeared to have helped St Thomas last year and penalized UWP). At the margin, once ranked always ranked is a positive criteria that helps more than it hurts in my opinion.

[wally_wabash]

Maybe this has already been discussed but my buddy brought up the idea of reseeding the field for the Quarterfinals as the NCAA travel restrictions are lifted by then (I believe). This way there would be a guarantee that all 4 games have the best chance of being competitive. The playoff committee would be able to seed the teams 1-8 and go from there.

How on earth do you intend to guarantee competitive games in the regional final round by reshuffling?  How can you possibly know that those games, no matter how you match them up, would be competitive?   

The travel restrictions are not lifted, really ever.   By the time you get 3 rounds deep, it's difficult (but not impossible) to ensure teams will be within the 500 mile radius.  It's definitely not a free for all in the quarterfinals though.  If the committee were to shuffle the deck intermittently throughout the tournament, they'd do so in order to save dollars and not find competitive balance (or what you think is competitive balance). 

Here was last year's final 8.  How would you have "re-seeded" them to make for a better tournament? 
Wartburg vs. UWW
Linfield vs. Widener
John Carroll vs. Mount Union
Hobart vs. Wesley