2015 NCAA TOURNAMENT THREAD

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

If only Neumann Soccer was banned for post-season play in 2011...

This two year Messiah National Title drought is the longest the school has had to suffer since 1999.

Nice fun fact/stat of the day! Do you know what the alleged violation is for this school? Financial aid or recruiting? Or something else?

Actions during an NCAA Tournament Game in 2015...  Nothing serious was ever posted on the boards so I'm just curious why the NCAA would be so harsh (if true)...

As you may recall, the Thomas College - Brandeis first round game did get out of control with multiple ejections of Thomas players and a confrontation with/possible punch of a referee.  See, e.g., page 17 of this thread.

Yes I do remember some discussion about that during the game. Interesting. I have never been a fan of postseason bans because it only hurts the kids playing. Suspend an individual from X amount of games or a coach if they misbehave but banning the entire team (especially at the D3 level) is harsh. The people who end up committing the infraction don't get punished by it but the kids/team who work hard do get hurt by it. Penn State football as an example or now Louisville basketball. Both those teams kids are getting hurt...not the guilty party.

[Mr.Right]

Thomas behavior against Brandeis was typical and predicted. Their consistent undisciplined behavior under their Head Coach Chris Parsons is a complete embarrassment for the school and their league. They should be punished and he should be fired but I doubt that would warrant a 2016 Postseason ban.

I do remember Bridgewater St who lost 5-1 at MIT in the 1st round used an in-eligible player last year so maybe it will be them? However, since they admitted the mistake in the middle of the 2015 season I am not sure why they were not banned for the 2015 post-season.

[blooter442]

Thomas behavior against Brandeis was typical and predicted. Their consistent undisciplined behavior under their Head Coach Chris Parsons is a complete embarrassment for the school and their league. They should be punished and he should be fired but I doubt that would warrant a 2016 Postseason ban.

I was wondering what, if anything, would happen to Ming and Clemmons, since they are both seniors, in terms of retroactive punishment. You made the point that if Ming was on his game that he could cause the Brandeis defense some real trouble, but it ended up being that Brandeis kept Ming from getting into a rhythm, and I think that had something to do with his frustration in striking the referee that ultimately led to the red card.

[Mr.Right]

Thomas behavior against Brandeis was typical and predicted. Their consistent undisciplined behavior under their Head Coach Chris Parsons is a complete embarrassment for the school and their league. They should be punished and he should be fired but I doubt that would warrant a 2016 Postseason ban.

I was wondering what, if anything, would happen to Ming and Clemmons, since they are both seniors, in terms of retroactive punishment. You made the point that if Ming was on his game that he could cause the Brandeis defense some real trouble, but it ended up being that Brandeis kept Ming from getting into a rhythm, and I think that had something to do with his frustration in striking the referee that ultimately led to the red card.

You are correct that Brandeis absolutely SHUT Ming down and I would be willing to guess he only had about 10-12 touches of the ball all game. While Brandeis was clearly the better side and deserved the win I was not expecting Clemmons to play and score an early goal to give Thomas a 1-0 lead about 10 minutes in that was looking like for maybe the next 15 minutes that the goal was going to lead Thomas an almost unthinkable upset. Interestingly, I believe Thomas scored 1st against Williams in the 1st round of the NCAA's in 2012 but could not hold on but I would have to check. Almost more surprisingly was the total undisciplined play of Clemmons AFTER scoring the goal. You could see Brandeis and Coven were clearly frustrated about going down 1-0 and not capitalizing on their plentiful scoring chances in the 1st Half. Thomas compressed defensively or at least tried to after going up 1-0 but did not have anyone to hold the ball up top after Clemmons exited which led to their defense getting overwhelmed and tired.

[blooter442]

You are correct that Brandeis absolutely SHUT Ming down and I would be willing to guess he only had about 10-12 touches of the ball all game. While Brandeis was clearly the better side and deserved the win I was not expecting Clemmons to play and score an early goal to give Thomas a 1-0 lead about 10 minutes in that was looking like for maybe the next 15 minutes that the goal was going to lead Thomas an almost unthinkable upset. Interestingly, I believe Thomas scored 1st against Williams in the 1st round of the NCAA's in 2012 but could not hold on but I would have to check. Almost more surprisingly was the total undisciplined play of Clemmons AFTER scoring the goal. You could see Brandeis and Coven were clearly frustrated about going down 1-0 and not capitalizing on their plentiful scoring chances in the 1st Half. Thomas compressed defensively or at least tried to after going up 1-0 but did not have anyone to hold the ball up top after Clemmons exited which led to their defense getting overwhelmed and tired.

I definitely thought shutting down Ming was going to be difficult, but he was off his game all night and never really threatened. Also, I was a bit surprised that Thomas scored first, but I thought that they had it in them to score once. After they went 1-0 up, though, they lost their composure, and their lack of big game experience was there for all to see.

The most dangerous player on the pitch for Thomas, I thought, was Adam LaBrie on the right wing. He's a freshman, and he wasn't afraid to take on one of the best fullbacks in D3 in Robbie Lynch and even had moderate success, although I think Lynch won the battle overall.

As far as NCAAs 2012 goes, Williams actually got the first goal in their game against Thomas, but Thomas tied it up at 1-1 before losing 2-1. I had remembered it similarly to you (that they'd gone up 1-0) so I wanted to verify it.

[Shooter McGavin]

This is in response to the NCAA ban or rumor of that...none of the teams should get a ban. If anyone should get banned it should be the officiating crews from numerous games in this tournament. The NCAA needs to do something to attract better officials at this level especially come tournament time. Yes we will always be critical of refs no matter what. Someone will always be unhappy and that's just the unfair nature of being an official, but the countless blunders and mistakes that have cost teams games or changed the game completely is sad and uncalled for. I am sure coaches send in video of games if they have issues and I am sure that the NCAA got flooded with it after this tournament. The players, coaches, NCAA reps, and schools deserve better than what the NCAA has been putting on the field to officiate these games. A change is needed before things get out of hand with some of these officials. It's sad and honestly ruining the game for the kids. Just like a ban of a team would only hurt the players. Not a fan of postseason bans. And if officials don't have thick enough skin to ref at this level then they should stick to academy or club leagues. I will repeat that it is not fair to the players to have poor officiating throughout the year let alone in the NCAA tournament. Hopefully next year's officials get better...but it has only been getting worse.

[Mr.Right]

This is in response to the NCAA ban or rumor of that...none of the teams should get a ban. If anyone should get banned it should be the officiating crews from numerous games in this tournament. The NCAA needs to do something to attract better officials at this level especially come tournament time. Yes we will always be critical of refs no matter what. Someone will always be unhappy and that's just the unfair nature of being an official, but the countless blunders and mistakes that have cost teams games or changed the game completely is sad and uncalled for. I am sure coaches send in video of games if they have issues and I am sure that the NCAA got flooded with it after this tournament. The players, coaches, NCAA reps, and schools deserve better than what the NCAA has been putting on the field to officiate these games. A change is needed before things get out of hand with some of these officials. It's sad and honestly ruining the game for the kids. Just like a ban of a team would only hurt the players. Not a fan of postseason bans. And if officials don't have thick enough skin to ref at this level then they should stick to academy or club leagues. I will repeat that it is not fair to the players to have poor officiating throughout the year let alone in the NCAA tournament. Hopefully next year's officials get better...but it has only been getting worse.

I agree the officiating has gotten much worse in the past 10 years but it has nothing to do with the point of the conversation. If a team used ineligible players or cheated somehow then they should and will get penalized. Nothing to do with officiating but I imagine you were just throwing out your opinion but the two subjects are apples and oranges. I believe the officiating has gotten worse all over the country is because these refs are getting OLDER and some cannot keep up with the pace of the games. I am guessing the veteran refs get the plush assignments to make "extra" money in the NCAA's at the expense of better yet younger refs. It i s a thankless job and am also guessing less and less younger people are getting into the profession as it is a 2nd job for most if not all of them. Would love to see some #'s comparing how many people are attending ref courses compared to 20-30 years ago

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

This is in response to the NCAA ban or rumor of that...none of the teams should get a ban. If anyone should get banned it should be the officiating crews from numerous games in this tournament. The NCAA needs to do something to attract better officials at this level especially come tournament time. Yes we will always be critical of refs no matter what. Someone will always be unhappy and that's just the unfair nature of being an official, but the countless blunders and mistakes that have cost teams games or changed the game completely is sad and uncalled for. I am sure coaches send in video of games if they have issues and I am sure that the NCAA got flooded with it after this tournament. The players, coaches, NCAA reps, and schools deserve better than what the NCAA has been putting on the field to officiate these games. A change is needed before things get out of hand with some of these officials. It's sad and honestly ruining the game for the kids. Just like a ban of a team would only hurt the players. Not a fan of postseason bans. And if officials don't have thick enough skin to ref at this level then they should stick to academy or club leagues. I will repeat that it is not fair to the players to have poor officiating throughout the year let alone in the NCAA tournament. Hopefully next year's officials get better...but it has only been getting worse.

I agree the officiating has gotten much worse in the past 10 years but it has nothing to do with the point of the conversation. If a team used ineligible players or cheated somehow then they should and will get penalized. Nothing to do with officiating but I imagine you were just throwing out your opinion but the two subjects are apples and oranges. I believe the officiating has gotten worse all over the country is because these refs are getting OLDER and some cannot keep up with the pace of the games. I am guessing the veteran refs get the plush assignments to make "extra" money in the NCAA's at the expense of better yet younger refs. It i s a thankless job and am also guessing less and less younger people are getting into the profession as it is a 2nd job for most if not all of them. Would love to see some #'s comparing how many people are attending ref courses compared to 20-30 years ago

I agree with Mr. Right. The reffing has been poor to put it politely over the past 8-10 years. This year I thought, from the games I watched, was the worst year yet. Does anybody know if they have to go to review sessions of complaints so they can learn from their mistakes or get praise for making the right call in a difficult situation? Both ends of the spectrum should be looked at.

I also agree that if there is some sort of academic fraud or ineligible players or financial aid misconduct then yes I guess a postseason ban is necessary depending on the guilty party or parties. But if the NCAA bans a team for a couple seniors getting in a fight or a kid losing his temper and punching a ref or a player yelling at an official after a poor call then all hope will be lost for the game. The stupidity of one player or a few that have graduated shouldn't cause next year's kids to be banned if they make it.

I understand all the points mentioned previously and agree with Mr. Right fully on his statement and understand where Shooter is coming from with the officials. This isn't the opinion of a few. It's the opinion of many around the country so the NCAA needs to step up, listen, own it, and try fix the problems they have with officials and other issues. 

[Shooter McGavin]

Yes Mr. Right I got a little side tracked with my rant there!  But I think my statement is valid and can be agreed upon by almost everyone who watches this level closely like we do.

[stlawus]

Relating to the referee dilemma, our (St. Lawrence) football team actually did something about the officials.  Lost to Hobart on a last second touchdown that was actually caught by our defensive back.  The Hobart player had one hand on the ball and they called it a TD for them.  It was literally a replica of the Fail Mary.  All of it was on video, and the athletic director submitted it to the Liberty League commissioner.  The officiating crew on that game got banned from reffing any SLU game for the rest of the season, and I think next season as well.  I'm pretty sure they were suspended from officiating all together for at least one game.  Yes, I know this is football I'm talking about but this shows that there is some precedent in at least the Liberty League.