2015 NCAA TOURNAMENT THREAD

[Shooter McGavin]

Let's not forget Williams....3 Final 4's in 5 years..2009, 2012 and 2013. They also won a NCAA Championship in 1995 and went to the Final in 1993. Another Final 4 in 1998. Someone mentioned Amherst above and that is plain ridiculous. They have 3 Final 4's in their HISTORY. 1997, 2008 and 2015. In 1997 and 2008 they got waxed. Amazingly, I have to agree with D3Soccerwatcher on this one as the point being about Loras or Amherst or Oneonta is they have NOT WON ONE. His point is valid which is as amazing as the Field Hockey team that has been to 7 Finals and lost all of them.

What he said ^^^ +K

[PaulNewman]

Mr.Right, sorry I did forget Williams.  Let's simplify this and I'm interested in how Mr.Right and others rank the top programs based on performance from 2007 through 2015 thus far.

We can all agree on Messiah, right?  So #2 thru #5......

Candidates....

OWU -- 3 Final Fours (if you count '06) and one title

Wheaton -- 2 Final Fours if you count '06 and Finalist both times

Calvin -- 3 Final Fours, two Finalists?, and 40+ games unbeaten streak

Amherst -- 2 Final Fours and 40+ games unbeaten streak, multiple Elite 8s

Williams -- 3 Final Fours but did not make NCAA tourney last 2 years

Oneonta -- 3 Final Fours

Loras -- 5 Final Fours, NCAAs every year during time span

Apologies if I forgot any other obvious candidates.

If we're talking all-time #1 thru #3 are clear-cut -- Messiah, OWU, Wheaton. 

[KICKIN95]

The number of championship stars on your crest matters...a lot!  Precisely because it is so very hard to do.  I contend that there isn't one player on any of these final 4 teams that agrees that it's great to just make a deep run.  They all want to win the championship...period. 

Loras might look at their season if they don't win it all or even if they make it to their first ever championship final and say "Wow!  We had a successful season!"  But if they do say that, that's why they probably won't win it the next time around.  A true champion program just wouldn't say that.  If they don't win it all, it's not success.  Just ask the players and alumni from the greatest program(s)...they will tell you.

Also kinda hard for me to wrap my mind around the notion that Loras is the absolute definitive #2 program in the past decade.  Yes they made five Final 4's and lost every one of those games...never making it to the top 2 (Championship Final) in the 40 year history of the NCAA D3 national tournament.  If winning a Final 4 game were as "random" as some have suggested...the odds of losing five Final 4 games in a row is 3.1%.  And statisticians understand that at odds that low it likely isn't random anymore (at p=.05), and its possible there is something else at play that starts to take the "randomness" out of the equation (maybe easy sectional play, psychological, better competition, system of play that can't win at the higher levels, it could be any number of things).  Or maybe it is random chance.  But with every Final 4 loss in a row, it is more and more statistically likely that there is something other then "randomness" at play.

If given the choice, I think Loras would trade all of those Final 4's for one Championship...and likely do it unblinkingly. 

Maybe this will be the year they finally get to the Final and ultimately hoist the Championship trophy...maybe.

As a point of comparison, there's a D3 Field Hockey program who has been to the NCAA Championship Final 7 times...and lost 7 times.  As absolutely brutal as it seems (and it is brutal and unfair), no one really cares. 

Championships matter.

You gotta be kidding right?  You are insinuating now that Loras is happy to make the Final 4 and call it a "successful season" gtfo, that's the dumbest thing I have read on this board for quite some time and that sir is saying something.  Statistics are cool and stuff, but there are other factors that come in to play like a fluke kick, or a goal that never really actually crossed the line.  Loras has lost in PK's, 2 OT's, and a 3-0 how's your father. 3 of the 4 losses were to the eventual champion, the PK tie was a to a Middlebury side that defended their way to PK's and Dan Brown their keeper carried them to the title, a good team that knew what it was going to take.  The OT loss to Messiah in 2012 was an incredible match,  Loras actually took it to Messiah and had 2 goals thwarted by the posts.  You can ask Brad McCarty about that match and he will tell you that is the toughest match they played that year.
The other OT loss was in 2013 against RUC, Loras went down 0-1 at half and came back and beat them silly the 2nd half to take a 2-1 lead.  RUC was awarded a goal late in the 2nd that video confirmed was not actually a goal to tie up the match and send to OT.  That kick was a fluke and has nothing to do with "not wanting bad enough" or not being as good as the other team, it's called **** happens.
  Loras is without contention the #2 team the last 10 years and if you are so statistically inclined you will have no room for argument.

[firstplaceloser]

I don't think it's possible to post something on here without Kickin trying to degrade everything you said. Loras is #3-4 because they haven't made a final match EVER it's not that hard to understand. OWU and Wheaton in the past have both done better. you think you are so knowledgable and no one else's opinion matters. at first I thought you actually knew something about D3 soccer but know I just realize you will say anything to make loras look better.

[Shooter McGavin]

I don't think it's possible to post something on here without Kickin trying to degrade everything you said. Loras is #3-4 because they haven't made a final match EVER it's not that hard to understand. OWU and Wheaton in the past have both done better. you think you are so knowledgable and no one else's opinion matters. at first I thought you just liked to argue but now I see you just live for these kinds of arguments.

Think him and Mr. Right are related? 

[firstplaceloser]

I don't think it's possible to post something on here without Kickin trying to degrade everything you said. Loras is #3-4 because they haven't made a final match EVER it's not that hard to understand. OWU and Wheaton in the past have both done better. you think you are so knowledgable and no one else's opinion matters. at first I thought you just liked to argue but now I see you just live for these kinds of arguments.

Think him and Mr. Right are related? 

$100 says they graduated together and most likely were room mates. they always have to agree with one another

[lastguyoffthebench]

Mr.Right, sorry I did forget Williams.  Let's simplify this and I'm interested in how Mr.Right and others rank the top programs based on performance from 2007 through 2015 thus far.

We can all agree on Messiah, right?  So #2 thru #5......

Candidates....

OWU -- 3 Final Fours (if you count '06) and one title

Wheaton -- 2 Final Fours if you count '06 and Finalist both times

Calvin -- 3 Final Fours, two Finalists?, and 40+ games unbeaten streak

Amherst -- 2 Final Fours and 40+ games unbeaten streak, multiple Elite 8s

Williams -- 3 Final Fours but did not make NCAA tourney last 2 years

Oneonta -- 3 Final Fours

Loras -- 5 Final Fours, NCAAs every year during time span

Apologies if I forgot any other obvious candidates.

If we're talking all-time #1 thru #3 are clear-cut -- Messiah, OWU, Wheaton.

I answered this previously in the forum, but I made a few changes

Last 10 years

Messiah
OWU
Calvin
Loras
Wheaton
Williams/Amherst/Middlebury
Oneonta St.
Trinity
MSU/Rutgers-Camden
SLU/Stevens Tech

Simply put, these have been the best teams of their respective regions the past 5-10 years...

[lastguyoffthebench]

I don't think it's possible to post something on here without Kickin trying to degrade everything you said. Loras is #3-4 because they haven't made a final match EVER it's not that hard to understand. OWU and Wheaton in the past have both done better. you think you are so knowledgable and no one else's opinion matters. at first I thought you just liked to argue but now I see you just live for these kinds of arguments.

Think him and Mr. Right are related? 

$100 says they graduated together and most likely were room mates. they always have to agree with one another

They were roomates, but not in college.   Father and son.  Mr.Right is like 80 years old!

[KICKIN95]

I don't think it's possible to post something on here without Kickin trying to degrade everything you said. Loras is #3-4 because they haven't made a final match EVER it's not that hard to understand. OWU and Wheaton in the past have both done better. you think you are so knowledgable and no one else's opinion matters. at first I thought you just liked to argue but now I see you just live for these kinds of arguments.

LOL, I live for arguments. So, I am not able to defend a comment about Loras being happy with just getting to the Final 4? I didn't degrade everything he said.  I think that the comment was so ridiculous and asinine I decided to give a little clarity to the situation.  I said they are #2 in the last 10 years not since the inception of the modern tournament, which OWU and Wheaton definitely would be better as well as a host of other teams.

If you notice I haven't degraded other teams abilities as it seems is a popular thing to do on here, instead I am defending my teams ability to make deep runs in the tournament. Just because they haven't won the Championship doesn't mean they aren't a great team.

[Shooter McGavin]

I don't think it's possible to post something on here without Kickin trying to degrade everything you said. Loras is #3-4 because they haven't made a final match EVER it's not that hard to understand. OWU and Wheaton in the past have both done better. you think you are so knowledgable and no one else's opinion matters. at first I thought you just liked to argue but now I see you just live for these kinds of arguments.

Think him and Mr. Right are related? 

$100 says they graduated together and most likely were room mates. they always have to agree with one another

They were roomates, but not in college.   Father and son.  Mr.Right is like 80 years old!

LOL.

[PaulNewman]

I'm with you Kickin.  I don't care how many karma points they give me.  Loras is #2 from '07 thru '15.  Not really even a close call.

Can't wait until after they win the title this year and folks still rank them #4 or #5 lol.  We are wasting our time because no one is going to budge at this point.

Here's a new entry since we can have more than one team together -- Brandeis/Kenyon/F&M/Haverford

[KICKIN95]

I don't think it's possible to post something on here without Kickin trying to degrade everything you said. Loras is #3-4 because they haven't made a final match EVER it's not that hard to understand. OWU and Wheaton in the past have both done better. you think you are so knowledgable and no one else's opinion matters. at first I thought you just liked to argue but now I see you just live for these kinds of arguments.

Think him and Mr. Right are related? 

$100 says they graduated together and most likely were room mates. they always have to agree with one another

Now that's hitting below the belt!

[firstplaceloser]

I don't think it's possible to post something on here without Kickin trying to degrade everything you said. Loras is #3-4 because they haven't made a final match EVER it's not that hard to understand. OWU and Wheaton in the past have both done better. you think you are so knowledgable and no one else's opinion matters. at first I thought you just liked to argue but now I see you just live for these kinds of arguments.

LOL, I live for arguments. So, I am not able to defend a comment about Loras being happy with just getting to the Final 4? I didn't degrade everything he said.  I think that the comment was so ridiculous and asinine I decided to give a little clarity to the situation.  I said they are #2 in the last 10 years not since the inception of the modern tournament, which OWU and Wheaton definitely would be better as well as a host of other teams.

If you notice I haven't degraded other teams abilities as it seems is a popular thing to do on here, instead I am defending my teams ability to make deep runs in the tournament. Just because they haven't won the Championship doesn't mean they aren't a great team.

he never even said they were happy with a final four... he stated loras MIGHT be happy with getting there.  he was making an example not stating a fact or quote. and my comments about you were from what I Have seen from when I joined a week ago until
now. not just this occasion. see here you go AGAIN making stuff up and nitpicking at every single thing someone says. Loras is a great team. always will be. but like I said before they are the Arsenal of D3. finishing 3/4 consistently but always giving a challenging game. and I wonder if you will ever get over the 2013 RUC game. 2 fluke goals my ***. the better team won that night.

[firstplaceloser]

Here's how a conversation will go with all Loras alumni.

Loras alumni: Yeah I played on the 2nd greatest d3 soccer team ever.
Other person: oh really? what year did you win a national championship?
Loras alumni: ummmm we never won but hey we always go to the final four.
other person: walks away....

[Mr.Right]

Easy.....NOT 80 yet...These 2 new posters are so combative....But hey I'll throw down..I have know I idea why I am being lumped with the Loras poster, in fact I agreed with D3Soccerwatcher comments about not winning a title. I also mentioned Williams because they have actually WON a title and been in the mixer the past 7 years. Also, Kicken post about PK's and outplaying opponents and bad luck I have no sympathy for because I could post about Williams misfortunes all day but that is the game of futbol.

1998---Dominate OWU at OWU in Final 4 but lose on a GK flub in the 12th minute.
1999--Even game with Rowan but lose in Elite 8 2-1 when Williams GK flubs a CK into his own net.
2000--#1 team in country and should be hosting but get sent down to Jersey for Elite 8 and lose to Stockton on another fluke goal.
2001--Outshoot Worcester St   41-4 but lose in PK's in 1st Round in what could be the upset of all upsets ever.
2002--Dominate and I mean dominate an Arcadia team in Sweet 16 that was happy to sit 10 DEEP and get the game to PK"s which they did and won.
2003- Leading MIT 1-0 in RD32 with 10 minutes to go and MIT ties it up on a backpass to GK that gets picked off, they win in OT
2004-Get outplayed but beat SLU in Sweet 16 1-0 at SLU in just a great WIN then the next day flub a 1-0 game to Geneseo St after a linesman waved off a goal in 1st Half. Dominate Geneseo in Elite 8 but they score on a fluky goal late.
2005--Get outplayed by SLU but manage to beat them 3-0 against the run of play in Sweet 16 then score a goal to lead Plattsburgh St 1-0 at Plattsburgh and again the linesman said the ball was out of bounds. Plattsburgh wins Elite 8 match.
2006-Seeded as the #1 team in country and host but ARE FORCED TO HOST Messiah in Swett 16 on a Friday morning at 11am with no crowd and should have scored 2 goals early but missed 2 sitters. Another great chance to score in 2nd Half but Messiah GK  made a WORLD CLASS SAVE..Lost in PK"'s.


ON and On I could go but interestingly Williams luck started to change in 2009 when they did not have as strong teams as they did in the first part of the 2000's..So I have no sympathy with excuses..You take your lumps and move on