Playoffs -- 2015

[Coolrey]

Every player and coach would want another game, sure. Right now, though, they have to really earn it.

That's part of my point.  If the DIII players and coaches would support the idea, then I'm on board with them.  This should be about those who play the game for free and those who support them.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I would be interested in what the coaches and players think.  DIII is certainly about playing for the love of the game rather than for generating revenue and for a chance for players to get to the league.   Therefore I wouldn't be surprised if there was the feeling among DIII coaches and players that more teams in the field would enhance the DIII experience for the players. I also wouldn't be surprised if fans overall would rather not change.  I would be interested to hear the perspective of those coaches and players when asked, if it were a possibility, would they be in favor of expanding the playoff field.  And again, I'm not saying the current system is wrong or bad or evil.  I only suggest that more teams in the playoffs offers more opportunity for players to play, schools to showcase their campuses and programs to prospective student/athletes and coaches to recruit players.  The best teams will always rise to the top, most of the time.  I don't think it would diminish rivalry games and you would still have intense and exciting games that would determine playoff berths.  All this is moot, I understand, but it's interesting to get perspective on this topic  from those who follow DIII just for the fun of it.

I would imagine coaches would be favor of expanding the playoffs because it could potentially make them look better. I am interested in the theory that Pat and Keith talked about on the podcast of more post season bowl games like the ECAC. Probably won't ever catch on down here in the South since we play almost everyone already, but I could see that being a fun alternative if schools really want an 11th game.

On a few of the other boards (ODAC and PAC) we have discussed the idea of conferences pairing up on their own, as the MAC and Centennial did this year, and staging a bowl game or two for the highest finishing team in the league to miss the playoffs.

My team is currently part of the ECAC and enjoyed an ECAC bowl win this year, and from what I can tell the weekend was well-run (although I did not attend, was otherwise committed for the weekend). I also played an ECAC game as a player. But I think it makes more sense to establish a little rivalry between conferences.

As you noted, down in TX that might be tricky because you already play most everyone in driving distance. What if the ASC paired up for a bowl with the SAA?

[ExTartanPlayer]

Every player and coach would want another game, sure. Right now, though, they have to really earn it.

That's part of my point.  If the DIII players and coaches would support the idea, then I'm on board with them.  This should be about those who play the game for free and those who support them.

Ok, let's come back to reality then. "It should be about those who play the game" - yeah, nobody is going to argue with that. But how does that change the economic reality? D3 football playoffs exist thanks to gifted revenue from upper divisions. We already hear enough complaining about the bracket problems - now you want to stretch the budget thinner to add a round? Jeez, man, the ncaa already has the squeeze right enough that flights are a no-go. Where's the money going to come from for a whole additional round of games?

Look, I get the whole "gee, wouldn't it be great if we could have more teams in the playoffs? Let's ask the players and coaches what they think!" but it's not something that can happen just because the kids playing for the love of the game want it to happen.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Ex,
Your ONU @ UWO write-up intrigued me.  From what I read about ONU, it seems they are somewhat of an improved team since their loss to Mt.  The QB, Ricardo Johnson, appears to be quite the athlete.   
I think there may be a third explanation if the game is close, and that is- ONU is a team on the rise. 
I'm curious to hear from anybody that may have seen ONU lately with Ricardo running the show.

A definite possibility. ONU played Mount awhile ago and definitely may have improved since then.

I expect UWO to win rather easily but the game still holds some intrigue.

[Ralph Turner]

As you noted, down in TX that might be tricky because you already play most everyone in driving distance. What if the ASC paired up for a bowl with the SAA?

Not likely.

Sul Ross State to Belhaven in the ASC is about 900 miles.
Sul Ross State to Millsaps in the SAA is about 902 miles.

In fact the only SAA teams within practical distance from an ASC opponent are Hendrix and Millsaps.

[SaintsFAN]

Ex,
Your ONU @ UWO write-up intrigued me.  From what I read about ONU, it seems they are somewhat of an improved team since their loss to Mt.  The QB, Ricardo Johnson, appears to be quite the athlete.   
I think there may be a third explanation if the game is close, and that is- ONU is a team on the rise. 
I'm curious to hear from anybody that may have seen ONU lately with Ricardo running the show.

A definite possibility. ONU played Mount awhile ago and definitely may have improved since then.

I expect UWO to win rather easily but the game still holds some intrigue.

I know they started another Freshman at QB because he had a great grasp of the entire offense during camp. He put up great numbers but he isn't nearly as mobile as Johnson is.  This mobility has made Magazine a more dangerous threat at RB and made the entire offense more explosive. 

Because of this, ONU is DEFINITELY a better team than they were when they took the field against Mount Union.  Big Picture:  Dean Paul has lacked a playmaking QB like this during most of his time at ONU, save for a couple years of two QBs (whose names I can't remember).  He's had good players in positions other than QB and I feel like this current situation with Johnson is a game changer for the Polar Bears.

[Coolrey]

Every player and coach would want another game, sure. Right now, though, they have to really earn it.

That's part of my point.  If the DIII players and coaches would support the idea, then I'm on board with them.  This should be about those who play the game for free and those who support them.

Ok, let's come back to reality then. "It should be about those who play the game" - yeah, nobody is going to argue with that. But how does that change the economic reality? D3 football playoffs exist thanks to gifted revenue from upper divisions. We already hear enough complaining about the bracket problems - now you want to stretch the budget thinner to add a round? Jeez, man, the ncaa already has the squeeze right enough that flights are a no-go. Where's the money going to come from for a whole additional round of games?

Look, I get the whole "gee, wouldn't it be great if we could have more teams in the playoffs? Let's ask the players and coaches what they think!" but it's not something that can happen just because the kids playing for the love of the game want it to happen.

It doesn't change the economic reality.  Funding is the obstacle and therefore expanding the bracket is not going to happen any time soon.  The DIII playoff structure is fine as it is, I just happen to think that if cost wasn't the huge factor that it is it could be better for the coaches, players, fans and institutions via expansion.  Virtually every athletic league, college and professional, has benefited from expansion, i.e. NCAA basketball, NFL, MLB, etc.  I think DIII football would as well, but I understand the restrictions and why, as I've said before, it's a pipe dream.  Interesting to get others perspective, however.

[emma17]

Ex,
Your ONU @ UWO write-up intrigued me.  From what I read about ONU, it seems they are somewhat of an improved team since their loss to Mt.  The QB, Ricardo Johnson, appears to be quite the athlete.   
I think there may be a third explanation if the game is close, and that is- ONU is a team on the rise. 
I'm curious to hear from anybody that may have seen ONU lately with Ricardo running the show.

A definite possibility. ONU played Mount awhile ago and definitely may have improved since then.

I expect UWO to win rather easily but the game still holds some intrigue.

I know they started another Freshman at QB because he had a great grasp of the entire offense during camp. He put up great numbers but he isn't nearly as mobile as Johnson is.  This mobility has made Magazine a more dangerous threat at RB and made the entire offense more explosive. 

Because of this, ONU is DEFINITELY a better team than they were when they took the field against Mount Union.  Big Picture:  Dean Paul has lacked a playmaking QB like this during most of his time at ONU, save for a couple years of two QBs (whose names I can't remember).  He's had good players in positions other than QB and I feel like this current situation with Johnson is a game changer for the Polar Bears.

Well then let me be the one to say it:  UWO hasn't seen a team like this.  (Unless Robert Morris had a similar QB).
UWO is strong on the line of scrimmage- I'm not sure how quick they are laterally (I'm not saying they aren't, I just don't know).  This would be a game I might add to last week's question of closer than expected. 

[wabndy]

It doesn't change the economic reality.  Funding is the obstacle and therefore expanding the bracket is not going to happen any time soon.  The DIII playoff structure is fine as it is, I just happen to think that if cost wasn't the huge factor that it is it could be better for the coaches, players, fans and institutions via expansion.  Virtually every athletic league, college and professional, has benefited from expansion, i.e. NCAA basketball, NFL, MLB, etc.  I think DIII football would as well, but I understand the restrictions and why, as I've said before, it's a pipe dream.  Interesting to get others perspective, however.

If the football gods smiled on D3 and made more money available for the playoffs, then I'd first spend it on fair bracketing with real seeds before even discussing expanding the bracket.  The only reason NCAA D1 expanded their bracket was because too many power teams (with mediocre records)  that drive TV ratings were being left out.  You are kidding yourself if you think there was any other reason.  That being said - good for D1 - I shudder to think what we'd have to suffer through if we did not get to feast off of the crumbs that fell off of the march madness table.  Oh wait-  I don't have to imagine what that would look like.

[ExTartanPlayer]

It doesn't change the economic reality.  Funding is the obstacle and therefore expanding the bracket is not going to happen any time soon.  The DIII playoff structure is fine as it is, I just happen to think that if cost wasn't the huge factor that it is it could be better for the coaches, players, fans and institutions via expansion.  Virtually every athletic league, college and professional, has benefited from expansion, i.e. NCAA basketball, NFL, MLB, etc.  I think DIII football would as well, but I understand the restrictions and why, as I've said before, it's a pipe dream.  Interesting to get others perspective, however.

If the football gods smiled on D3 and made more money available for the playoffs, then I'd first spend it on fair bracketing with real seeds before even discussing expanding the bracket.  The only reason NCAA D1 expanded their bracket was because too many power teams (with mediocre records)  that drive TV ratings were being left out.  You are kidding yourself if you think there was any other reason.  That being said - good for D1 - I shudder to think what we'd have to suffer through if we did not get to feast off of the crumbs that fell off of the march madness table.  Oh wait-  I don't have to imagine what that would look like.

Agreed.

[Ralph Turner]

  Oh wait-  I don't have to imagine what that would look like.

Daytona Beach! 

[wabndy]

  Oh wait-  I don't have to imagine what that would look like.

Daytona Beach!

I was more referring to this little gem on p.6

D. Site Selection The Football Selection Committee along with the NAIA Department of Championships will determine game sites based on the following criteria:
1. Submitted bids (See E. Below)
2. Availability of quality facilities
3. Potential income
4. Comparative cost factors among the available sites
5. Competition from other activities
E. Automatic Host for Higher Seeds
1. If the 1-8 seeds bid at least $22,500 for the first round, they will host first round contests in the Football Championship Series. Seeding is based on the final rating used for selection.
2. Unless a flight could otherwise be eliminated, the four highest remaining seeds that bid at least $33,000 for the quarterfinal round will host quarterfinal contests in the FCS. Seeding is based on the final rating used for selection.
3. Unless a flight could otherwise be eliminated, the two highest remaining seeds that bid at least $47,500 for the semifinal round will host semifinal round contests in the FCS. Seeding is based on the final rating used for selection.

[HScoach]

Ex,
Your ONU @ UWO write-up intrigued me.  From what I read about ONU, it seems they are somewhat of an improved team since their loss to Mt.  The QB, Ricardo Johnson, appears to be quite the athlete.   
I think there may be a third explanation if the game is close, and that is- ONU is a team on the rise. 
I'm curious to hear from anybody that may have seen ONU lately with Ricardo running the show.

A definite possibility. ONU played Mount awhile ago and definitely may have improved since then.

I expect UWO to win rather easily but the game still holds some intrigue.

I know they started another Freshman at QB because he had a great grasp of the entire offense during camp. He put up great numbers but he isn't nearly as mobile as Johnson is.  This mobility has made Magazine a more dangerous threat at RB and made the entire offense more explosive. 

Because of this, ONU is DEFINITELY a better team than they were when they took the field against Mount Union.  Big Picture:  Dean Paul has lacked a playmaking QB like this during most of his time at ONU, save for a couple years of two QBs (whose names I can't remember).  He's had good players in positions other than QB and I feel like this current situation with Johnson is a game changer for the Polar Bears.

Well then let me be the one to say it:  UWO hasn't seen a team like this.  (Unless Robert Morris had a similar QB).
UWO is strong on the line of scrimmage- I'm not sure how quick they are laterally (I'm not saying they aren't, I just don't know).  This would be a game I might add to last week's question of closer than expected.

I have no doubts that ONU has improved since they played Mount, but don't let the mobile QB fool you into thinking they're ready for the physical nature of a really good WIAC team.   Mount completely dominated the line of scrimmage against the ONU offense to the tune of 13 yards rushing on 19 attempts (0.7 yds/carry).  Magazine is a good D3 back, now helped out by a running QB to keep things honest, but his longest run was 9 yards.   By contrast, Mount had 3 guys go over 100 yards against the ONU defense and rushed for 415 yards on 54 attempts (7.7 yds/carry).   Mount very decidedly won the line of scrimmage and I would expect OWU to do the same or more, especially their O-line.

I would expect ONU to put up a fight, but not to be a legitimate threat to anyone good enough to win the WIAC.

Oshkosh 48
Ohio Northern 13 

[Ralph Turner]

I was more referring to this little gem on p.6

D. Site Selection The Football Selection Committee along with the NAIA Department of Championships will determine game sites based on the following criteria:
1. Submitted bids (See E. Below)
2. Availability of quality facilities
3. Potential income
4. Comparative cost factors among the available sites
5. Competition from other activities
E. Automatic Host for Higher Seeds
1. If the 1-8 seeds bid at least $22,500 for the first round, they will host first round contests in the Football Championship Series. Seeding is based on the final rating used for selection.
2. Unless a flight could otherwise be eliminated, the four highest remaining seeds that bid at least $33,000 for the quarterfinal round will host quarterfinal contests in the FCS. Seeding is based on the final rating used for selection.
3. Unless a flight could otherwise be eliminated, the two highest remaining seeds that bid at least $47,500 for the semifinal round will host semifinal round contests in the FCS. Seeding is based on the final rating used for selection.

$103K for the joy of the playoffs!

[bleedpurple]

5) ONU @ UWO: here's the first game with just a smidgen of intrigue to me.  I don't think ONU is really national-caliber, no.  But this is our first chance to figure out any connection between 2015 Mount vs. another real power team.  Will ONU keep this remotely competitive?  They couldn't against Mount.  Likewise, I'm not sure that we know UWO/UWW are the usual powerhouse that we've come to expect as the WIAC champs are always national-title-worthy...maybe they are, but the flip side...what if UWO beat UWW this year because UWW just isn't quite as good?  While I expect UWO to roll here, this is the first game where things start to get interesting for me.  If UWO is as good as I think, and ONU is not-good as I think, this should be a romp.  If this is close, perhaps that tells us that the top-WIAC dogs are a hair behind the last few years, or maybe it means Mount is even better than we think.

ETP, thanks for your thoughts on all the games! For me, it's always more fun to read about the actual games than all of the limitless attempts to change a system that really doesn't need major overhaul.

As far as the game above, you provide some interesting thoughts to digest. It really helps me realize the difficulty (for all of us, including pollsters) of interpreting one result. What does the UW-O and UW-W result mean as far as the relative strengths of both teams nationally?

I know UW-O's victory on 10/10/15 means little in terms of the relative strengths of the teams today. First of all, UW-O played the entire second half with their third string QB. Although UW-W has a great defense, it only makes sense that the Titans offense is better than the one I saw that day.  UW-W is in a completely different place as a team than they were on 10/10. It's hard to believe it's even the same team. Too many reasons for the transformation to get into here, but my honest assessment is that UW-W is NOW playing on par with some of their championship teams. I'm not saying they are as good as them, yet.  But they are playing at that level. Some of the reasons for 10/10 have been identified, addressed, and moved on from at UW-W.

UW-O showed a lot of character that does just not go away in beating Whitewater with their QB situation. To not say "hats off to them" would be small in my opinion.  But interpreting the result to try to figure out what happens from here is another matter. The unfortunate fact of the matter is that UW-O beat a UW-W team that, for whatever reason, under achieved. I am comfortable saying that because everyone in the UW-W program knows it. Please dont read this as dissing UW-O's victory. It's simply a fact. I know a UW-O fan could say, "We made you underachieve." I have no way to disprove that. However, I know it's not true. That will be evident enough a week from Saturday IMO.

For clarity, it's probably best to treat two questions separately for UW-O and UW-W:

What have they PROVEN?
How good are they?   

What has UW-O proven?
They have proven a lot. They survived the WIAC undefeated. That is an accomplishment. They beat UW-W. That is an accomplishment, even if UW-W underperformed.  They demolished UW-P.

How good are they?
I can say for sure, as Emma mentioned, they are VERY STRONG, at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. Ohio Northern apparently isn't based on what HSCoach posted. We all know what happens when two teams like that match up. What I don't see mentioned often is that UW-O has three weapons on offense that have tremendous SPEED. They probably have the best tight end in the country.  Their defense is excellent. How does this stack them up nationally?  It's hard to say. If UW-W was where they are now on 10/10 and UW-O beat them, then I'd say ABSOLUTE national championship contenders. But as it stands today? We have to wait until the quarterfinals to know for sure.  When I say that, I'm not dismissing Wheaton. If they beat UW-W, I believe they are championship contenders and will provide the opponent that will determine the veracity of UW-O as contenders themselves.

What has UW-W proven?
Nothing. Not yet. That's the really, really fun part of what lies ahead.

How good are they?
National Championship quality. Been around great UW-W teams for a long time. I believe this is now one of them. For many who don't believe that based on the UW-O result, I point to UW-RF result last year. Too many people put too much weight on that last year also. This team has an edge about them that I really like. Their psyche is right. Their defensive front seven is dominant ( better than last year due to player development) and their offensive line is peaking. Can they win the championship without a Leipold or a Kumerow? An understandable question that everyone in the Whitewater program is committed to answering.