Playoffs -- 2015

[Pat Coleman]

UWO was No. 1 in its bracket, at least.

[pg04]

Maybe we should have rooted for St. Thomas to be on the same side of Mount instead of UWW. Not that I think sending Mount on the road would considerably change their ability to get the job done.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't think Mount is going on the road in the semifinal until they lose one.

[USee]

DIII football is not really interested, nor should it be interested, in making it affordable for fans. What it is interesting in doing is creating the fairest possible tournament given the money bequeathed by the DI basketball tournament. So while that skews the first round for island teams, and sometimes influences second round match ups, the rest of the tournament is relatively dollar blind.

Why is Linfield travelling to Minnesota? Because the Regional Committee, made up of a representative member of every West conference, ranked St Thomas ahead of Linfield and the national committee, made up of two members of each of the regional committees, chose not to over rule that ranking.

As for your favoritism argument, Whitworth's coach sat on the Regional Committee for the NWC and was also one of two West Region reps on the national committee. He will remain on the national committee through the 2017 season I believe. So if anything, the NWC had a greater voice at the table than any West Region conference except the WIAC, which also had a National Committee member. The MIAC did not have its own voice at the national committee this year.

Of some interest, the OAC also did not its own voice at the national committee this year, with north region reps coming from the IIAC and NCAC. So of the four remaining teams, the schools on the road had the extra voice (WIAC and NWC), not the home teams (MIAC and OAC). That should put paid to at least some of your bias concerns.

This.

I should also point out that Whitworth's coach (he of national committee fame) was a coach at Wheaton for almost 20 years before taking over at Whitworth. He knows the level of competition between midwest and west. Though he is just one vote.

[hazzben]

DIII football is not really interested, nor should it be interested, in making it affordable for fans. What it is interesting in doing is creating the fairest possible tournament given the money bequeathed by the DI basketball tournament. So while that skews the first round for island teams, and sometimes influences second round match ups, the rest of the tournament is relatively dollar blind.

Why is Linfield travelling to Minnesota? Because the Regional Committee, made up of a representative member of every West conference, ranked St Thomas ahead of Linfield and the national committee, made up of two members of each of the regional committees, chose not to over rule that ranking.

As for your favoritism argument, Whitworth's coach sat on the Regional Committee for the NWC and was also one of two West Region reps on the national committee. He will remain on the national committee through the 2017 season I believe. So if anything, the NWC had a greater voice at the table than any West Region conference except the WIAC, which also had a National Committee member. The MIAC did not have its own voice at the national committee this year.

Of some interest, the OAC also did not its own voice at the national committee this year, with north region reps coming from the IIAC and NCAC. So of the four remaining teams, the schools on the road had the extra voice (WIAC and NWC), not the home teams (MIAC and OAC). That should put paid to at least some of your bias concerns.

This.

I should also point out that Whitworth's coach (he of national committee fame) was a coach at Wheaton for almost 20 years before taking over at Whitworth. He knows the level of competition between midwest and west. Though he is just one vote.

Just one vote, but these committee reps discuss these things. And they're smart people. Having a guy with that kind of experience, you can be sure they'll ask him his thoughts. So it even goes beyond just one vote, if that makes sense.

[pg04]

I don't think Mount is going on the road in the semifinal until they lose one.

Agreed. Reality has shown this is the case, despite my musings.

[K-Mack]

Well the quarterfinals were as good as could reasonably be expected.  Two nail-biters (in McMinnville and Oshkosh), a very entertaining game in Alliance (though I doubt many thought the final outcome was ever in real jeopardy), and a game in St. Paul that got WAY more out-of-hand than probably anyone expected (but that apparently no one could watch due to internet provider incompetence).

I'm really looking forward to the semis - I currently have no clue how I will pick either game!

Same here.

Well, I have a clue, but I'm not decided by any means. What one side lacks brute strength, in both games, it makes up for in heart, grit, versatility, etc.

[art76]

I don't think Mount is going on the road in the semifinal until they lose one.

So maybe the bracket committee is doing us a favor this year? I'm already on record as saying that it is my opinion that either of the WIAC teams would be able to win in Alliance this year on their way to the Stagg Bowl. If my hunch is correct, then we might see Mt. Union on the road during next years bracket. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[wildcat11]

DIII football is not really interested, nor should it be interested, in making it affordable for fans. What it is interesting in doing is creating the fairest possible tournament given the money bequeathed by the DI basketball tournament. So while that skews the first round for island teams, and sometimes influences second round match ups, the rest of the tournament is relatively dollar blind.

Why is Linfield travelling to Minnesota? Because the Regional Committee, made up of a representative member of every West conference, ranked St Thomas ahead of Linfield and the national committee, made up of two members of each of the regional committees, chose not to over rule that ranking.

As for your favoritism argument, Whitworth's coach sat on the Regional Committee for the NWC and was also one of two West Region reps on the national committee. He will remain on the national committee through the 2017 season I believe. So if anything, the NWC had a greater voice at the table than any West Region conference except the WIAC, which also had a National Committee member. The MIAC did not have its own voice at the national committee this year.

Of some interest, the OAC also did not its own voice at the national committee this year, with north region reps coming from the IIAC and NCAC. So of the four remaining teams, the schools on the road had the extra voice (WIAC and NWC), not the home teams (MIAC and OAC). That should put paid to at least some of your bias concerns.

This.

I should also point out that Whitworth's coach (he of national committee fame) was a coach at Wheaton for almost 20 years before taking over at Whitworth. He knows the level of competition between midwest and west. Though he is just one vote.

I will point out that Caruso was on the West committee as well....so there's that.  Also, Sandberg had no vote on the regional committee.  Yeah, he's the national rep but I believe he doesn't vote on the West rankings.

However....I think there are many at Linfield that want to be able to get it done on the road in the Midwest.  The 'Cats obviously could very well come up short but part of the program knows that's a December hurdle we have to clear.

[MasterJedi]

DIII football is not really interested, nor should it be interested, in making it affordable for fans. What it is interesting in doing is creating the fairest possible tournament given the money bequeathed by the DI basketball tournament. So while that skews the first round for island teams, and sometimes influences second round match ups, the rest of the tournament is relatively dollar blind.

Why is Linfield travelling to Minnesota? Because the Regional Committee, made up of a representative member of every West conference, ranked St Thomas ahead of Linfield and the national committee, made up of two members of each of the regional committees, chose not to over rule that ranking.

As for your favoritism argument, Whitworth's coach sat on the Regional Committee for the NWC and was also one of two West Region reps on the national committee. He will remain on the national committee through the 2017 season I believe. So if anything, the NWC had a greater voice at the table than any West Region conference except the WIAC, which also had a National Committee member. The MIAC did not have its own voice at the national committee this year.

Of some interest, the OAC also did not its own voice at the national committee this year, with north region reps coming from the IIAC and NCAC. So of the four remaining teams, the schools on the road had the extra voice (WIAC and NWC), not the home teams (MIAC and OAC). That should put paid to at least some of your bias concerns.

This.

I should also point out that Whitworth's coach (he of national committee fame) was a coach at Wheaton for almost 20 years before taking over at Whitworth. He knows the level of competition between midwest and west. Though he is just one vote.

I will point out that Caruso was on the West committee as well....so there's that.

However....I think there are many at Linfield that want to be able to get it done on the road in the Midwest.  The 'Cats obviously could very well come up short but part of the program knows that's a December hurdle we have to clear.

If Linfield wins it all this year and goes undefeated next year it's likely they would finally have home field throughout. Problem until then is probably SOS.

[jknezek]

I have a hard time believing an undefeated defending champion would go on the road, so I agree completely.

If Linfield wins it all this year and goes undefeated next year it's likely they would finally have home field throughout. Problem until then is probably SOS.

[K-Mack]

Pat,

Sorry, I did not see that.    Where was it posted?

No, I figured it was seeded.   But, over the years, people (NCAA) says it was seeded, then it wasn't seeded.    It seems like they change their minds over time.

It is my opinion only, I do not represent any college or conference in saying this, that all the NCAA playoffs are slanted to favor midwest schools.    Probably not purposely, but that is where the votes are.  The MIAC and WIAC are clearly strong conferences.   Texas, the deep South and the West coast just do not have enough conferences to have an equal say in the seedings. 

The purpose of my questions was to see who makes these decisions.     If Regional Rankings are the criteria, The West coast will always get shortchanged if teams on paper appear equal.   I do consider Linfield, St. Thomas and Mary Hardin Baylor very close. 

Being in the Midwest, I am sure you do not like to hear this.    But, there are fair ways to give each team an equal chance for a home game beyond the first one or two playoff games.

1.   Flip a coin each Sunday afternoon, visible to all conference reps.  or,
2.   Make each playoff team beyond the first round have to travel at least once, if possible, before the Stagg Bowl.

Any other system is inherently unfair because it is based on people's opinions.    And those opinions are not free from conference and local bias.    Heck, if I had a vote, of course I would vote for the NWC or SCIAC team to get some home field advantage.   

And as a fan, I love a home game, mainly because it is affordable.     I just bought airline tickets for the Stagg Bowl.    There went my Social Security check for December!    But next Sunday, I am sure it would have been even more expensive.   Very few of us can afford to go to St. Paul and the Stagg Bowl.    Heck, few of us can go to even one.

Pat, you and I may never agree on this, but I do appreciate the job you do.    This is one great website.   Thank you so much.

By the way, who is Ralph Turner?   I have seen his name times over the years.    He does not appear to be a typical poster.

Sincerely,

George

With all due respect George, a lot of this is just you saying stuff without taking the time to research how it really works, so I can't respond to all of it. But I'll give you this much.

The national selection committee is made up of eight D-III folks -- either coaches, ADs or conference commissioners. Two from each region. Each two has a regional advisory committee which reports to them. Those RACs are made up of one representative from every conference. So best it can, the NCAA ensures there is no bias, or no extra weight given to any particular bias.

For whatever it's worth, an NWC coach was a member of the national committee.

Furthermore, the committees are given set criteria to interpret for the exact purpose of taking as much subjectivity out of it as possible. I played in the era just before this, and it seemed a lot more subjective.

The best football is played in the West Region. That sounds like an opinion, but frankly, over time it's proven to be a fact. However, if you consider Ohio, Wisconsin and Minnesota part of the midwest, then yes, the Midwest dominates. (Ohio, for D3 purposes, is North Region).

As with all claims of bias with regards to D3 and the East and Midwest, I suggest you check this out:

[K-Mack]

DIII football is not really interested, nor should it be interested, in making it affordable for fans. What it is interesting in doing is creating the fairest possible tournament given the money bequeathed by the DI basketball tournament. So while that skews the first round for island teams, and sometimes influences second round match ups, the rest of the tournament is relatively dollar blind.

Why is Linfield travelling to Minnesota? Because the Regional Committee, made up of a representative member of every West conference, ranked St Thomas ahead of Linfield and the national committee, made up of two members of each of the regional committees, chose not to over rule that ranking.

As for your favoritism argument, Whitworth's coach sat on the Regional Committee for the NWC and was also one of two West Region reps on the national committee. He will remain on the national committee through the 2017 season I believe. So if anything, the NWC had a greater voice at the table than any West Region conference except the WIAC, which also had a National Committee member. The MIAC did not have its own voice at the national committee this year.

Of some interest, the OAC also did not its own voice at the national committee this year, with north region reps coming from the IIAC and NCAC. So of the four remaining teams, the schools on the road had the extra voice (WIAC and NWC), not the home teams (MIAC and OAC). That should put paid to at least some of your bias concerns.

This.

I should also point out that Whitworth's coach (he of national committee fame) was a coach at Wheaton for almost 20 years before taking over at Whitworth. He knows the level of competition between midwest and west. Though he is just one vote.

I will point out that Caruso was on the West committee as well....so there's that.

However....I think there are many at Linfield that want to be able to get it done on the road in the Midwest.  The 'Cats obviously could very well come up short but part of the program knows that's a December hurdle we have to clear.

If Linfield wins it all this year and goes undefeated next year it's likely they would finally have home field throughout. Problem until then is probably SOS.

It has everything to do with SoS. The MIAC is loaded, and on top of that, St. Thomas smartly games the system by playing lower-tier WIAC teams so they get the OOWP bump. The SoS is 2/3 your opponents winning percentage and 1/3 the oppoonents opponents winning percentage, which effectively means even if you schedule a team that's from a strong conference but has a weak record because the whole conference is strong, the SoS still accurately attempts to reflect that.

Linfield would get a huge boost if it opens up with a win over UMHB next season.

[MonroviaCat]

DIII football is not really interested, nor should it be interested, in making it affordable for fans. What it is interesting in doing is creating the fairest possible tournament given the money bequeathed by the DI basketball tournament. So while that skews the first round for island teams, and sometimes influences second round match ups, the rest of the tournament is relatively dollar blind.

Why is Linfield travelling to Minnesota? Because the Regional Committee, made up of a representative member of every West conference, ranked St Thomas ahead of Linfield and the national committee, made up of two members of each of the regional committees, chose not to over rule that ranking.

As for your favoritism argument, Whitworth's coach sat on the Regional Committee for the NWC and was also one of two West Region reps on the national committee. He will remain on the national committee through the 2017 season I believe. So if anything, the NWC had a greater voice at the table than any West Region conference except the WIAC, which also had a National Committee member. The MIAC did not have its own voice at the national committee this year.

Of some interest, the OAC also did not its own voice at the national committee this year, with north region reps coming from the IIAC and NCAC. So of the four remaining teams, the schools on the road had the extra voice (WIAC and NWC), not the home teams (MIAC and OAC). That should put paid to at least some of your bias concerns.

This.

I should also point out that Whitworth's coach (he of national committee fame) was a coach at Wheaton for almost 20 years before taking over at Whitworth. He knows the level of competition between midwest and west. Though he is just one vote.

I will point out that Caruso was on the West committee as well....so there's that.

However....I think there are many at Linfield that want to be able to get it done on the road in the Midwest.  The 'Cats obviously could very well come up short but part of the program knows that's a December hurdle we have to clear.

If Linfield wins it all this year and goes undefeated next year it's likely they would finally have home field throughout. Problem until then is probably SOS.

It has everything to do with SoS. The MIAC is loaded, and on top of that, St. Thomas smartly games the system by playing lower-tier WIAC teams so they get the OOWP bump. The SoS is 2/3 your opponents winning percentage and 1/3 the oppoonents opponents winning percentage, which effectively means even if you schedule a team that's from a strong conference but has a weak record because the whole conference is strong, the SoS still accurately attempts to reflect that.

Linfield would get a huge boost if it opens up with a win over UMHB next season.

So you're saying that .005 difference in SOS is what made the difference this year?  Seems like they could have gone to the tie breaker in this case.... (and I'm someone who is constantly disagreeing with George Thompson when he goes on these rants).

[AO]

DIII football is not really interested, nor should it be interested, in making it affordable for fans. What it is interesting in doing is creating the fairest possible tournament given the money bequeathed by the DI basketball tournament. So while that skews the first round for island teams, and sometimes influences second round match ups, the rest of the tournament is relatively dollar blind.

Why is Linfield travelling to Minnesota? Because the Regional Committee, made up of a representative member of every West conference, ranked St Thomas ahead of Linfield and the national committee, made up of two members of each of the regional committees, chose not to over rule that ranking.

As for your favoritism argument, Whitworth's coach sat on the Regional Committee for the NWC and was also one of two West Region reps on the national committee. He will remain on the national committee through the 2017 season I believe. So if anything, the NWC had a greater voice at the table than any West Region conference except the WIAC, which also had a National Committee member. The MIAC did not have its own voice at the national committee this year.

Of some interest, the OAC also did not its own voice at the national committee this year, with north region reps coming from the IIAC and NCAC. So of the four remaining teams, the schools on the road had the extra voice (WIAC and NWC), not the home teams (MIAC and OAC). That should put paid to at least some of your bias concerns.

This.

I should also point out that Whitworth's coach (he of national committee fame) was a coach at Wheaton for almost 20 years before taking over at Whitworth. He knows the level of competition between midwest and west. Though he is just one vote.

I will point out that Caruso was on the West committee as well....so there's that.

However....I think there are many at Linfield that want to be able to get it done on the road in the Midwest.  The 'Cats obviously could very well come up short but part of the program knows that's a December hurdle we have to clear.

If Linfield wins it all this year and goes undefeated next year it's likely they would finally have home field throughout. Problem until then is probably SOS.

It has everything to do with SoS. The MIAC is loaded, and on top of that, St. Thomas smartly games the system by playing lower-tier WIAC teams so they get the OOWP bump. The SoS is 2/3 your opponents winning percentage and 1/3 the oppoonents opponents winning percentage, which effectively means even if you schedule a team that's from a strong conference but has a weak record because the whole conference is strong, the SoS still accurately attempts to reflect that.

Linfield would get a huge boost if it opens up with a win over UMHB next season.

St. Thomas' SOS was hurt by La Crosse and winless Eau Claire.  They would have been much better off scheduling St. Scholastica or Monmouth.  OOWP doesn't hurt that much, especially when conferences like the UMAC play 9 conference games and the OOWP moves towards .500 no matter how bad you are.