Hot Stove Action

[Shooter McGavin]

Shooter McGavin, do you know why Danny Brandt left Messiah or are you just taking a guessing?  If memory serves, it mentioned and discussed on here years ago that his intent was always to play at the D-I level, and the only reason he landed at Messiah was that coming out of high school he didn't like any of the D-I offers he got and he came to Messiah still looking to move to D-I after a year or two.  I don't know why he ultimately left, but I always assumed it was primarily about his continuing desire to play D-I, not about a weakened Messiah squad in 2015 and the pressure of being one of the team leaders.

I believe fully that the fact of knowing they would not be as good as his previous year played a HUGE role into his decision to leave. I am sure that the other factor would be wanting to play D1 soccer. Not doubting that at all but from rumors to people close with him and everywhere inbetween he did not want to stay because they were not going to be as good. That was definitely a factor in his decision to leave. Once D1 soccer wasn't for him he wanted to come back and the team said no from my understanding. Coaching staff wanted him back but team had no desire to take him back. Can you speak to any truth on that FW?

[Toure87]

 The team didnt say "no" to him. He was going to go back and one or two teammates in his class caused trouble for him, and he decided ultimately that he didn't want to go back. It was two of his classmates, not the whole team, so Brandts outlook was if that he wasn't going to go back if there was going to be any trouble with those classmates, and I know that Brandt is all good with all of his teammates now. There are no hard feelings. Also, no one knows that Brandts decision to leave Messiah was mainly because of the school. He didnt like the school or the area. And he didnt like being back home for college. It is true he wanted to go D1 to help his chances to play professionally, but the main reason he left was because of the class that graduated. Those seniors were the guys he hung out with (Thompson, Payne, Ramirez, Kovach), and he didnt think it was worth being at a school and town he didn't like when they left. That is all information I got from someone i know that is close to the Brandt family.

[PaulNewman]

The season will be here in a few short weeks and everyone will have much better things to debate.

It is just ludicrous to think that Brandt left Messiah because he thought they wouldn't still be good.  There was no reason to believe that Messiah wouldn't remain very competitive and make the NCAA tournament even if they weren't going to be strong favorites to make the Final Four or win the title as in some other years.  It's more believable that his better friends graduated or that he was ambivalent about his choice from Day 1.  And therein lies the lesson in my opinion IF there are any lessons here at all.  Picking a college based on some upperclassmen you like who will be graduating or based on some guarantee of winning national titles or whatever is highly risky at a minimum and foolhardy at worst.  It's important to like the school beyond athletics, partly because college (especially in D3) is supposed to be about a lot more than athletics and if for no other reason because an injury at any time can dictate an end to athletics.  There's a lot of conjecture here aside from all that.  The fact that he has ended up at a school so similar to Messiah in its combination of mission and soccer tradition seems at least somewhat telling.  What's really that different besides rural versus more urban? 

Bottom line....this isn't akin to the Kevin Durant sweepstakes in significance.  Can't we just agree that the kid is a very good D3 player, whether some think that means an all-conference type player or others believe he might be an all-american type player?  Let's let the kid play and enjoy his season.  Hopefully he has a strong season and finds satisfaction with the soccer as well as everything college has to offer aside from soccer.  I wish that for any young man.  What we do know is that the four years of eligibility go by all too fast.  Coming to the end of road is tough to take.

[Shooter McGavin]

The team didnt say "no" to him. He was going to go back and one or two teammates in his class caused trouble for him, and he decided ultimately that he didn't want to go back. It was two of his classmates, not the whole team, so Brandts outlook was if that he wasn't going to go back if there was going to be any trouble with those classmates, and I know that Brandt is all good with all of his teammates now. There are no hard feelings. Also, no one knows that Brandts decision to leave Messiah was mainly because of the school. He didnt like the school or the area. And he didnt like being back home for college. It is true he wanted to go D1 to help his chances to play professionally, but the main reason he left was because of the class that graduated. Those seniors were the guys he hung out with (Thompson, Payne, Ramirez, Kovach), and he didnt think it was worth being at a school and town he didn't like when they left. That is all information I got from someone i know that is close to the Brandt family.

Sounds pretty selfish to me but hey I'm not surprised.

[Shooter McGavin]

The season will be here in a few short weeks and everyone will have much better things to debate.

It is just ludicrous to think that Brandt left Messiah because he thought they wouldn't still be good.  There was no reason to believe that Messiah wouldn't remain very competitive and make the NCAA tournament even if they weren't going to be strong favorites to make the Final Four or win the title as in some other years.  It's more believable that his better friends graduated or that he was ambivalent about his choice from Day 1.  And therein lies the lesson in my opinion IF there are any lessons here at all.  Picking a college based on some upperclassmen you like who will be graduating or based on some guarantee of winning national titles or whatever is highly risky at a minimum and foolhardy at worst.  It's important to like the school beyond athletics, partly because college (especially in D3) is supposed to be about a lot more than athletics and if for no other reason because an injury at any time can dictate an end to athletics.  There's a lot of conjecture here aside from all that.  The fact that he has ended up at a school so similar to Messiah in its combination of mission and soccer tradition seems at least somewhat telling.  What's really that different besides rural versus more urban? 

Bottom line....this isn't akin to the Kevin Durant sweepstakes in significance.  Can't we just agree that the kid is a very good D3 player, whether some think that means an all-conference type player or others believe he might be an all-american type player?  Let's let the kid play and enjoy his season.  Hopefully he has a strong season and finds satisfaction with the soccer as well as everything college has to offer aside from soccer.  I wish that for any young man.  What we do know is that the four years of eligibility go by all too fast.  Coming to the end of road is tough to take.

Can't disagree with much here NCAC...although losing that class, as I said, was a huge blow for Messiah and Brandt knew this. You're telling me that he expected the team to be as good after that class left? And as Toure87 mentioned that was his class he wished he was in. Doesn't sound like he had tons of respect from or for his actual class he came to Messiah with. One bad egg can ruin the bunch and his departure didn't help Messiah...or maybe it did.

[luckylefty]

One of the things to note here, is kids who make decisions like this are just that...kids.  Sometimes they make a decision that to a seasoned adult seems outrageous.  I've seen and heard of kids transferring over some of the most absurd things, its just what kids do.

And guess what?  When you were 18 or 19 you did things for stupid reasons as well. If a kid decides his dream is to play Division 1 soccer how can we begrudge him for chasing that?

I hope the kid has a great career and enjoys his new school.

[Shooter McGavin]

One of the things to note here, is kids who make decisions like this are just that...kids.  Sometimes they make a decision that to a seasoned adult seems outrageous.  I've seen and heard of kids transferring over some of the most absurd things, its just what kids do.

And guess what?  When you were 18 or 19 you did things for stupid reasons as well. If a kid decides his dream is to play Division 1 soccer how can we begrudge him for chasing that?

I hope the kid has a great career and enjoys his new school.

Can't disagree with that and 18 or 19 seems so long ago...yikes 

[Flying Weasel]

Very good points NCAC New England and luckylefty.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and everyone can draw their own conclusions and make their own judgments, . . .  and they can do so regardless if they have enough accurate information or not.  But given this isn't about performance or conduct on the field nor even off-field behavior/conduct, I really don't understand what the point is in sharing those judgments here on the message board and making disparaging comments about a player due to his choice of where to attend and play soccer.  To me, it just doesn't seem to be an appropriate or a worthwhile topic of discussion.  My two cents.

And call me old-fashioned (I'll take it as a compliment), but I don't think it's appropriate to share private/confidential/personal information, so even the minimal inside information that I know about this or any other situation (I'm not an "insider" myself, but occasionally am told things in confidence) will never be shared here.  And that applies regardless of the info being positive, negative or neutral to the subject(s) in question.   

My novice opinion of Danny Brandt as a player is that he had the potential to be a high level D-III player.  He certainly not an average D-III player, no matter what shortcomings or limits some see in his game.  I'm not sure what his development has been in the past year, but if he brings the right attitude I would expect him to boost Wheaton's chances this year.  And again, a very novice opinion, but I could see him fitting into Wheaton's style of play even better than he did at Messiah just because both he and Wheaton seem to look to attack with more urgency, directness, and speed than Messiah typically does.

[Toure87]

Didnt mean to divulge too much information. Just thought some accurate information would stop all of the talking about his reasons and motives, which was getting out of hand to be honest. Also, I know he trained with both the Harrisburg City Islanders and the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers over two weeks in the spring, and the Islanders were quite keen of him. This was obviously before his dad became a USL coach. But, its hard for me to think that a kid who has professional teams taking him to train with them over their pre-seasons would ever be just a "pretty good d3 player." With a player who still has 2 seasons left, he seems to be getting as much attention as Marshall Hollingsworth, who spent a week with Toronto FC's USL team before his senior season.

[Shooter McGavin]

Yes all the info I provided was hearsay and I assumed was common knowledge that others have also heard through the grapevine. I only wish him the best and just think that for him, staying at Messiah would have been his best option. I will end with that. 

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

I heard similar rumors to what Shooter, Toure, and FW all provided so I am sure it is a combo of all. Let's just end the discussion. He's a very good player in my opinion and I hope he does well. These are growing periods for these kids and he's still trying to find his way it seems. Who is excited for the upcoming season?! We are so close yet so far from opening games!

[D3soccerwatcher]

Shooter, this is Brandt's highlight tape from his time at Messiah. Pretty sure every comment you made about him, including him being chubby or only having one move, is nowhere near a credible comment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8MZNruHlmg

Yes, which was 4 years ago...but I am sure it's impossible to gain weight in a 4 year span. Also, if you notice from the highlight his main move is a cruyff turn or drag back to change direction. That's pretty much the only move he ever really used to get out of trouble. Put him on any other team without the talent surrounding him and he would not be effective. Put any of the other talent that was surrounding him on a different team and they would still be as effective.

I think my statement is credible having watched him play. He is highly overrated and couldn't handle the pressure of being the leader of the team after that incredible class graduated so he bailed on his team because the team wouldn't be as good as his freshman year. Someone I am sure you would want on your team though Toure87.

Shooter Gavin,
This a pretty brutal indictment of a young man who most would consider a very good player.  While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I watched the video and saw it completely different than you...impressive footwork, excellent vision/passing, and some very good goal scoring.  It all gets down to the eye of the beholder I suppose.

As I think we've all agreed, let's let his playing at Wheaton over the next two seasons speak for itself and leave it at that.  I for one wish this young man the best.

PS - Brandt played his very first NCAA game just under 36 months ago.

[Shooter McGavin]

I guess I was a little harsh. My apologies but I hate seeing kids with potential waste their 4 years. Maybe he can salvage his last 2.

[Saint of Old]

I am sure he will.
And way to man up Shooter.
That's exactly what makes this board so fun.
Guys not afraid to give their opinion, but man enough to admit possible mistakes.

I think this might just be a kid who takes motivation from people like us questioning his game/decisions.

I will also say, there are not many National Champions in the Country with 2 years of eligibility remaining on an elite program (Maybe 8 in the entire nation).

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

I am sure he will.
And way to man up Shooter.
That's exactly what makes this board so fun.
Guys not afraid to give their opinion, but man enough to admit possible mistakes.

I think this might just be a kid who takes motivation from people like us questioning his game/decisions.

I will also say, there are not many National Champions in the Country with 2 years of eligibility remaining on an elite program (Maybe 8 in the entire nation).

Couldn't have said it better Saint of Old.