NJAC

[PaulNewman]

It is a definite lack of discipline but also just a competitive fire that you gotta respect. Just gotta cut out the stupid stuff.

I can respect the competitive fire and Jersey flair but this got ridiculous.  RUN kid kicked a ball hard into MSU bench.  MSU GK throwing ball back AFTER the ref placed it.  Pushing and shoving constantly and dangerous tackles all over.  MSU gonna play a final with 3 key guys missing.  MSU finishes with 8 players on the field.  And even after the game you can hear fans talking about finishing matters in the parking lot.

[Mr.Right]

LOL just a little Tuesday night entertainment. Maybe Firstplace closer can go into more detail on WHO RUN loses for the 1st Round of the NCAA;s and who MSU loses for the Final. RUN should have a relatively easy 1st round game in the NCAA's so it might not matter but MSU w/o 3 players against Rowan will hurt. I know one of them was their striker. Also, I thought MSU's GK played wll tonight. He has nutsack and made some great saves.

[PaulNewman]

I assume two of them are brothers with same last name.

Do the coaches in the NJAC actually promote that kind of entertainment?

[Flying Weasel]

Yes, the second red card for MSU went to the younger Terci brother, Rafael, not the senior Lucas who's an All-American candidate with 28 goals.

[PaulNewman]

Yes, the second red card for MSU went to the younger Terci brother, Rafael, not the senior Lucas who's an All-American candidate with 28 goals.

And the third MSU red card was on Lucas.

[Mr.Right]

Terci is a stud with 63 Career goals in 4 1/2 seasons....That is very impressive...That is a big loss for the NJAC FInal and the 2nd time this year he has gotten a red. The other kid is a captain...The brother has 10 career goals...So Rowan comes into the game with a big advantage but I wouldn't be surprised if MSU has a ton of younger players chomping at the bit to prove themselves....I think MSU just got a Pool C tonight so they do not need to win the game but you never know.

[PaulNewman]

RUN outshot MSU 18-3, which I wouldn't have guessed watching a good portion of the 2nd half.

[Falconer]

It is a definite lack of discipline but also just a competitive fire that you gotta respect. Just gotta cut out the stupid stuff.

I can respect the competitive fire and Jersey flair but this got ridiculous.  RUN kid kicked a ball hard into MSU bench.  MSU GK throwing ball back AFTER the ref placed it.  Pushing and shoving constantly and dangerous tackles all over.  MSU gonna play a final with 3 key guys missing.  MSU finishes with 8 players on the field.  And even after the game you can hear fans talking about finishing matters in the parking lot.

The fact that this was (apparently), as stated previously, a typical Jersey game speaks directly to the general absence of NJAC teams on Messiah's schedule--for which they've been criticized here.  The Falcons will play them at home, but not home-and-home in most cases, though they have accepted some exchanges with TCNJ, probably b/c that team respects the game and doesn't turn futbol into football.  The Falcons did play at another NJAC school several years ago (I will leave out the name so as not to single out one of them when several could fairly be surmised) and left with two or three starters badly hurt, owing to dangerous plays by the opponents.  Let's be honest: why should Messiah risk their best players just to get a result against a Jersey team?  I cannot see one good reason why they should.

[Go2Goal]

Falconer...Messiah played a home and home the last two years with Rowan! And if memory serves me correct last year Rowan was up 4-0 when they emptied their bench in from of 5,000 fans at Messiah! The final score of 4-2 is not a good indication of the game as it could have been 6-0! Messiah doesn't want to play NJAC teams because they are a tough out and may not help their SOS due to taking losses in a brutal league! If Messiah is scared to get guys hurt they are too soft to win a national title. I have seen the entire NJAC play and some of the Mid Atlantic region teams. There is no difference in the physicality of the teams.  Montclair has a serious lack of discipline that permeates their whole program. Don't lump all of the NJAC teams into that mess! Let's not make assumptions why Messiah is scared to play the Jersey teams because I would say they just don't want to get smoked again like last year! It's much easier to play a mid level team from a weak conference that will end up 8-5-3 and give them the SOS result and not much risk!

[D3soccerwatcher]

Messiah is 23-4-4 all-time versus NJAC teams

[rudy]

Falconer...Messiah played a home and home the last two years with Rowan! And if memory serves me correct last year Rowan was up 4-0 when they emptied their bench in from of 5,000 fans at Messiah! The final score of 4-2 is not a good indication of the game as it could have been 6-0! Messiah doesn't want to play NJAC teams because they are a tough out and may not help their SOS due to taking losses in a brutal league! If Messiah is scared to get guys hurt they are too soft to win a national title. I have seen the entire NJAC play and some of the Mid Atlantic region teams. There is no difference in the physicality of the teams.  Montclair has a serious lack of discipline that permeates their whole program. Don't lump all of the NJAC teams into that mess! Let's not make assumptions why Messiah is scared to play the Jersey teams because I would say they just don't want to get smoked again like last year! It's much easier to play a mid level team from a weak conference that will end up 8-5-3 and give them the SOS result and not much risk!

G2g you may want to look at the national championship history before you make the statement that Messiah may be too soft to win the national championship.

I watched 2nd half of game last night and while rivalry games like this bring excitement to the game there is a fine line between hard play and losing control. Having 3 players red carded is losing control. You hurt your team now for next game.

[firstplaceloser]

It is a definite lack of discipline but also just a competitive fire that you gotta respect. Just gotta cut out the stupid stuff.

I can respect the competitive fire and Jersey flair but this got ridiculous.  RUN kid kicked a ball hard into MSU bench.  MSU GK throwing ball back AFTER the ref placed it.  Pushing and shoving constantly and dangerous tackles all over.  MSU gonna play a final with 3 key guys missing.  MSU finishes with 8 players on the field.  And even after the game you can hear fans talking about finishing matters in the parking lot.

The fact that this was (apparently), as stated previously, a typical Jersey game speaks directly to the general absence of NJAC teams on Messiah's schedule--for which they've been criticized here.  The Falcons will play them at home, but not home-and-home in most cases, though they have accepted some exchanges with TCNJ, probably b/c that team respects the game and doesn't turn futbol into football.  The Falcons did play at another NJAC school several years ago (I will leave out the name so as not to single out one of them when several could fairly be surmised) and left with two or three starters badly hurt, owing to dangerous plays by the opponents.  Let's be honest: why should Messiah risk their best players just to get a result against a Jersey team?  I cannot see one good reason why they should.

i am sorry but this is just ridiculous for you to say about messiah. i've played against teams out of the NJAC who played rougher than we did! and yes the njac teams might play a little harder but for the all mighty messiah not to play against them is soft. the thing about the njac is that any team could win on any day and i think that pushes teams away from playing them.

and for montclairs behavior last night, you can't pin the behavior of one team on the entire conference. 2-3 years ago RUC MSU eben RUN played excellent soccer and did not partake in this kind of behavior. nj ac games typically have more fouls and cards but i've never seen 4-5 red cards in one game. and the worst part about is MSU was winning! Terci is in his SIXTH year of college soccer and an all american, there's no excuse for that. msu will get embarrassed by rowan showing up with half their squad with red cards. rowan is probably ecstatic right now.

[Falconer]

Go2Goal:

There is one single occasion when I would have said Messiah was scared to play a particular opponent: a home game vs York in 2008 (I think it was that year).  Brandt did something I'd never seen him do: he came out in a totally defensive posture, rather than the usual possession and attack game.  And, York almost scored anyway in the first 30 seconds and ended up winning 2-1. That York team was an offensive powerhouse, with both Ports brothers and Lucas Emil.

As for playing physically, the Falcons aren't afraid to do that, either, if that's how the game is being officiated.  They prefer not to, obviously, b/c it interferes with the type of soccer they do best, but they don't back down.  It's dangerous games that they seek to avoid.

The Falcons did not play any Jersey schools in 2010-2012 (I did not look further back), two of which were championship seasons so it's hard to say they were too "soft" to win.  In 2013 they hosted MSU and there were no cards given. In 2014, however, they played 3 times in New Jersey, winning all 3 times: at Rowan (2 YCs for Rowan), at MSU (no cards), and vs TCNJ at Rowan (no cards).  In 2015 they hosted Rowan in the game you accurately analyzed as being dominated by Rowan.  There were 5 YCs on Rowan, 1 on Messiah.

No Jersey teams were on this year's schedule.  None of these games were the one I mentioned in which some Messiah players went on the DL, so to speak, directly as a result of dangerous plays, but obviously at least one of these games was overly physical in that respect.

[Flying Weasel]

It's not really true that Messiah avoided playing NJAC schools. It's true that Messiah didn't go out of its way to schedule multiple NJAC schools per year, but their non-conference schedule has typically included one NJAC opponent per season over the last decade and a half, playing a home-and-home with Richard Stockton, TCNJ (twice), Kean, Montclair St., and Rowan.

Messiah Regular Season Games vs. NJAC (Last 15 years)
2002: Richard Stockton (A) W 4-0
2003: Richard Stockton (H) W 4-2
2005: --
2004: TCNJ (H) W 5-0
2006: Kean (A) W 2-1 (OT)
2007: TCNJ (A) W 2-1 (OT)
2008: TCNJ (H) T1-1 (2OT), Kean (H) W 5-0
2009: TCNJ (A) W 6-0
2010: --
2011: --
2012: --
2013: Montclair St. (H) W 3-1
2014: TCNJ (N) W2-1, Rowan (A) W 3-0, Montclair St. (A) W 3-1
2015: Rowan (H) L2-4
2016: --

And Messiah fared well, going 11-1-1 overall, 4-1-1 at home, 6-0-0 away, 1-0-0 nuetral.

In the NCAA's, Messiah has encountered the NJAC six times and have also fared well: 7-0-0

Messiah vs, NJAC in NCAA Tournament:
1988 First Round: Rowan (A) W 2-1
2000 Final: Rowan (A) W 2-0
2005 Sectional Final (Elite 8): TCNJ (H) W 3-0
2007 Sectional Final (Elite 8): Montclair St. (H) W 1-0
2008 Sectional Semifinal (Sweet 16): Montclair St. (N) W 1-0 (2OT)
2010 Second Round: Montclair St. (H) W 2-1 (OT)
2013 Final: Rutgers-Camden (N) W 2-1 (2OT)

So, . . . Messiah isn't afraid to play NJAC schools. And Messiah isn't soft. Please. Maybe pre-Dave Brandt that would have been a bit more fair of an assessment/criticism, but Brandt brought a change in philosophy with regards to physicality and fouls--Messiah were going to play tough and hard and not back down to nobody, all within the rules and spirit of good sportmanship, knowing that doing so means occasionally earning a yellow card.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to minimize their encounters with NJAC schools because there's no doubt the chance of extra-curricular activity, late fouls, dirty plays was higher playing an NJAC school than the typical MAC Commonwealth or Freedom school.  Not saying that's unique to the NJAC--it isn't--but the probability is higher.  Also, not sure which NJAC schools played on turf, as in astroturf, in the 2000's, because Messiah also seemed to minimize their games played on turf (probably explains the lack of regular season match-ups with Johns Hopkins in the early to mid-2000's). But Messiah did play TCNJ more than any other NJAC school and they played on turf, right?  Again, Messiah didn't avoid NJAC teams or turf, but they did seem to minimize such matches.  Now with the new generation synthetics (Field Turf, NexTurf, etc.), you see Messiah playing on turf more often in the non-conference schedule then before.

[PaulNewman]

To be fair -- and I had to remind myself by looking at the posts -- this sidetrack about Messiah and the NJAC started with a Messiah supporter interjecting the idea that Messiah might have good reason to avoid NJAC teams in the context of commenting on last night's game.

Aside from the overall display which I personally found outrageous, I frankly am stuck on what I'm hearing is a SIXTH year All-American player getting himself tossed in the 90th minute of a game that was over in his team's favor, knowing that his team already had lost two players for the final.  Sure, MSU might have earned a Pool C last night, but then again they were barely in the rankings last week and a loss to Rowan will give them six losses and seven blemishes overall, so it would be far from shocking to see them not get a bid.  Soccer apparently (and presumably playing for and representing MSU) meant enough to stick around for six years so one would think a veteran of that sort and with such importance to his team would be feeling great about a huge win with hopes of further post-season play in his mind.  Also have to wonder about the coaches, AFTER seeing two players get tossed, not exhorting the rest of the players on the field to chill out and avoid further damage especially knowing what potentially was at stake.  All that said, MSU will probably go out and beat Rowan 4-0 and that will make them seem in some bizarre way vindicated.