Pool C in 2016

[wally_wabash]

Do the committees factor in possible RRO from other regions before the first ranking (e.g. Franklin's win over Thomas More) or do they wait until after the first rankings to know for sure then factor it in on the 2nd rankings?

It's the great annual unanswered question.  I have no idea and I don't believe we've ever received an answer from anybody who knows.  While the North committee may not know where Thomas More is ranked in the South, surely they could pretty safely assume that Thomas More was going to be ranked and evaluate accordingly, right? 

I would agree with Hansen. I wonder if the order went uwo, sju, hsu, Wheaton, case (if they stay undefeated), then the six round would get interesting if JCU, uwp, muhl, and Hobart are on the board. Would like to see what JCU sos would go to if they loss to mount. Since we know that a loss is a loss does not matter to who or how close

I think there's a chance that John Carroll could stay put as the second in line from the North region if they play a close game and lose to Mount Union.  That feels like the way this is set up at this point.  JCU's SOS is bad, they have no good wins, and their lone result against a ranked opponent is a noncompetitive 19-point loss to Oshkosh.  The more I dig into this JCU business, the more I think the North committee really got this wrong.  Are they cashing in benefit of the doubt capital by being the second place OAC team?  St. John's is kind of doing the same thing in the MIAC, but the OAC and the MIAC are two completely different things this year (this has been the case for a number of years now, but especially this year).  Are they getting actual credit just for having shown up to a game against Oshkosh?  That seems odd given that they weren't competitive in that game.  I'm having a hard time figuring out the JCU ranking tonight. 

[Pat Coleman]

Do the committees factor in possible RRO from other regions before the first ranking (e.g. Franklin's win over Thomas More) or do they wait until after the first rankings to know for sure then factor it in on the 2nd rankings?

It's the great annual unanswered question.  I have no idea and I don't believe we've ever received an answer from anybody who knows.  While the North committee may not know where Thomas More is ranked in the South, surely they could pretty safely assume that Thomas More was going to be ranked and evaluate accordingly, right? 

It probably is for Thomas More but not for everyone, so indeed, the committees do not consider those cross-region regionally ranked results in the first ranking.

[HansenRatings]

Did some fumbling around during lunch about travel distances to see potential matchups. If you're a HSU/ETBU, Linfield, or UMHB fan, and you don't want to see repeat matchups in the first couple of rounds, you should root for the 4-H's (Hendrix, Huntingdon, Hobart and Husson) and Eureka to win their conferences, and for Concordia-Moorhead to beat St. John's to get a Pool C birth.

Hendrix's only <500 miles matchup would be UMHB or Huntingdon.

Huntingdon's would be the the SAA winner as long as it's not Wash U.

Hobart & Husson are >500 miles apart, but St. Lawrence is within Husson's 500 mile radius. The only other schools within 500 miles of Husson are WNE/Salve.

Concordia's only <500 mile trip would be St. Thomas or Northwestern, and if Eureka beats Northwestern, then Concordia-UST is the only <500 mile trip from Moorhead (the Wisconsin and Iowa schools are all just out of reach).

You can see everything on a map here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aKFzFXOJRlE-df4cJuW6b2JBDIw&usp=sharing

[MonroviaCat]

Great job on that--for what it's worth--I (as a Linfield guy) wouldn't mind seeing a rematch with UMHB--I think the outcome of that game did not reflect the quality of the competition for the first 3 quarters of football.  Still....I wouldn't mind that rematch coming in the 3rd round or later....

[Ralph Turner]

Great job on that--for what it's worth--I (as a Linfield guy) wouldn't mind seeing a rematch with UMHB--I think the outcome of that game did not reflect the quality of the competition for the first 3 quarters of football.  Still....I wouldn't mind that rematch coming in the 3rd round or later....

... the operative words in your post!

[HansenRatings]

If you're a HSU/ETBU, Linfield, or UMHB fan, and you don't want to see repeat matchups in the first couple of rounds...

We're on the same page.

[SaintsFAN]

If you're a HSU/ETBU, Linfield, or UMHB fan, and you don't want to see repeat matchups in the first couple of rounds...

We're on the same page.

I think most of us hate seeing that.  Maybe we should take up a collection at all first round games this year, like they do in church.

[MonroviaCat]

If you're a HSU/ETBU, Linfield, or UMHB fan, and you don't want to see repeat matchups in the first couple of rounds...

We're on the same page.

I think most of us hate seeing that.  Maybe we should take up a collection at all first round games this year, like they do in church.

Wait, you mean everybody doesn't do a rematch in the first round or two?   

[Ralph Turner]

If you're a HSU/ETBU, Linfield, or UMHB fan, and you don't want to see repeat matchups in the first couple of rounds...

We're on the same page.

I think most of us hate seeing that.  Maybe we should take up a collection at all first round games this year, like they do in church.

Wait, you mean everybody doesn't do a rematch in the first round or two?   

The ASC is 33-24 (.578) in post season play.

In five seasons, ASC foes played in the post-season.

2004 -- UMHB beat HSU in the second round.  UMHB played 3 more games.  HSU had the bye back in the days of the 28-team bracket.
2006 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round.  UMHB played 2 more games
2008 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round.  UMHB played 3 more games
2011 -- UMHB beat McMurry in the second round.  UMHB played 1 more game.  McMurry beat Trinity in the first round.
2015 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round. UMHB played 2 more games

That has 2 effects on cumulative playoff records.

The losing team did not get a chance to notch another potential win against a non-ASC foe.
The ASC seems to have not gotten the chance to play a weaker seed in the bracket because of "geographic proximity".

The conference post-season record against non-ASC teams is 28-19 (.596)

(FAQ #9  http://www.d3football.com/interactive/faq/playoffs )

[MonroviaCat]

If you're a HSU/ETBU, Linfield, or UMHB fan, and you don't want to see repeat matchups in the first couple of rounds...

We're on the same page.

I think most of us hate seeing that.  Maybe we should take up a collection at all first round games this year, like they do in church.

Wait, you mean everybody doesn't do a rematch in the first round or two?   

The ASC is 33-24 (.578) in post season play.

In five seasons, ASC foes played in the post-season.

2004 -- UMHB beat HSU in the second round.  UMHB played 3 more games.  HSU had the bye back in the days of the 28-team bracket.
2006 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round.  UMHB played 2 more games
2008 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round.  UMHB played 3 more games
2011 -- UMHB beat McMurry in the second round.  UMHB played 1 more game.  McMurry beat Trinity in the first round.
2015 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round. UMHB played 2 more games

That has 2 effects on cumulative playoff records.

The losing team did not get a chance to notch another potential win against a non-ASC foe.
The ASC seems to have not gotten the chance to play a weaker seed in the bracket because of "geographic proximity".

The conference post-season record against non-ASC teams is 28-19 (.596)

(FAQ #9  http://www.d3football.com/interactive/faq/playoffs )

Not going to break it down as nicely as you have but same thing for the NWC in the past 5 years Linfield has rematches a conference foe in the first round of the playoffs 3 times and rematched their SCIAC preseason foe the other two years.  It gets old...no?

[SaintsFAN]

If you're a HSU/ETBU, Linfield, or UMHB fan, and you don't want to see repeat matchups in the first couple of rounds...

We're on the same page.

I think most of us hate seeing that.  Maybe we should take up a collection at all first round games this year, like they do in church.

Wait, you mean everybody doesn't do a rematch in the first round or two?   

The ASC is 33-24 (.578) in post season play.

In five seasons, ASC foes played in the post-season.

2004 -- UMHB beat HSU in the second round.  UMHB played 3 more games.  HSU had the bye back in the days of the 28-team bracket.
2006 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round.  UMHB played 2 more games
2008 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round.  UMHB played 3 more games
2011 -- UMHB beat McMurry in the second round.  UMHB played 1 more game.  McMurry beat Trinity in the first round.
2015 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round. UMHB played 2 more games

That has 2 effects on cumulative playoff records.

The losing team did not get a chance to notch another potential win against a non-ASC foe.
The ASC seems to have not gotten the chance to play a weaker seed in the bracket because of "geographic proximity".

The conference post-season record against non-ASC teams is 28-19 (.596)

(FAQ #9  http://www.d3football.com/interactive/faq/playoffs )

I honestly thought it would be more than 5 times in 12 years.  Then I noticed the post doesn't reflect other teams in TX outside of the ASC.

[Ray Finkles]

If you're a HSU/ETBU, Linfield, or UMHB fan, and you don't want to see repeat matchups in the first couple of rounds...

We're on the same page.

I think most of us hate seeing that.  Maybe we should take up a collection at all first round games this year, like they do in church.

Wait, you mean everybody doesn't do a rematch in the first round or two?   

The ASC is 33-24 (.578) in post season play.

In five seasons, ASC foes played in the post-season.

2004 -- UMHB beat HSU in the second round.  UMHB played 3 more games.  HSU had the bye back in the days of the 28-team bracket.
2006 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round.  UMHB played 2 more games
2008 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round.  UMHB played 3 more games
2011 -- UMHB beat McMurry in the second round.  UMHB played 1 more game.  McMurry beat Trinity in the first round.
2015 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round. UMHB played 2 more games

That has 2 effects on cumulative playoff records.

The losing team did not get a chance to notch another potential win against a non-ASC foe.
The ASC seems to have not gotten the chance to play a weaker seed in the bracket because of "geographic proximity".

The conference post-season record against non-ASC teams is 28-19 (.596)

(FAQ #9  http://www.d3football.com/interactive/faq/playoffs )

You also left out the UMHB-Louisiana College rematch in the First Round in 2012. UMHB went to the Semifinals and lost at Mount Union in the final seconds that season.

[Ralph Turner]

If you're a HSU/ETBU, Linfield, or UMHB fan, and you don't want to see repeat matchups in the first couple of rounds...

We're on the same page.

I think most of us hate seeing that.  Maybe we should take up a collection at all first round games this year, like they do in church.

Wait, you mean everybody doesn't do a rematch in the first round or two?   

The ASC is 33-24 (.578) in post season play.

In five seasons, ASC foes played in the post-season.

2004 -- UMHB beat HSU in the second round.  UMHB played 3 more games.  HSU had the bye back in the days of the 28-team bracket.
2006 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round.  UMHB played 2 more games
2008 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round.  UMHB played 3 more games
2011 -- UMHB beat McMurry in the second round.  UMHB played 1 more game.  McMurry beat Trinity in the first round.
2012 -- UMHB beat Louisiana College in the first round. UMHB played 3 more games.
2015 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round. UMHB played 2 more games

That has 2 effects on cumulative playoff records.

The losing team did not get a chance to notch another potential win against a non-ASC foe.
The ASC seems to have not gotten the chance to play a weaker seed in the bracket because of "geographic proximity".

The conference post-season record against non-ASC teams is 27-18 (.600)

(FAQ #9  http://www.d3football.com/interactive/faq/playoffs )

You also left out the UMHB-Louisiana College rematch in the First Round in 2012. UMHB went to the Semifinals and lost at Mount Union in the final seconds that season. (Yeah, the heartbreak game.)

+1!  That is what I get for doing it a work on a break!

[AO]

Do the committees factor in possible RRO from other regions before the first ranking (e.g. Franklin's win over Thomas More) or do they wait until after the first rankings to know for sure then factor it in on the 2nd rankings?

It's the great annual unanswered question.  I have no idea and I don't believe we've ever received an answer from anybody who knows.  While the North committee may not know where Thomas More is ranked in the South, surely they could pretty safely assume that Thomas More was going to be ranked and evaluate accordingly, right? 

I would agree with Hansen. I wonder if the order went uwo, sju, hsu, Wheaton, case (if they stay undefeated), then the six round would get interesting if JCU, uwp, muhl, and Hobart are on the board. Would like to see what JCU sos would go to if they loss to mount. Since we know that a loss is a loss does not matter to who or how close

I think there's a chance that John Carroll could stay put as the second in line from the North region if they play a close game and lose to Mount Union.  That feels like the way this is set up at this point.  JCU's SOS is bad, they have no good wins, and their lone result against a ranked opponent is a noncompetitive 19-point loss to Oshkosh.  The more I dig into this JCU business, the more I think the North committee really got this wrong.  Are they cashing in benefit of the doubt capital by being the second place OAC team?  St. John's is kind of doing the same thing in the MIAC, but the OAC and the MIAC are two completely different things this year (this has been the case for a number of years now, but especially this year).  Are they getting actual credit just for having shown up to a game against Oshkosh?  That seems odd given that they weren't competitive in that game.  I'm having a hard time figuring out the JCU ranking tonight.

Are we sure the RACs are even considering possible RROs from their own region in the first ranking?  It's not the 2nd loss that will keep JCU out, it's the lack of a third OAC team in the rankings.  I wouldn't be surprised to see them get passed next week.

[Ralph Turner]

If you're a HSU/ETBU, Linfield, or UMHB fan, and you don't want to see repeat matchups in the first couple of rounds...

We're on the same page.

I think most of us hate seeing that.  Maybe we should take up a collection at all first round games this year, like they do in church.

Wait, you mean everybody doesn't do a rematch in the first round or two?   

The ASC is 33-24 (.578) in post season play.

In five seasons, ASC foes played in the post-season.

2004 -- UMHB beat HSU in the second round.  UMHB played 3 more games.  HSU had the bye back in the days of the 28-team bracket.
2006 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round.  UMHB played 2 more games
2008 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round.  UMHB played 3 more games
2011 -- UMHB beat McMurry in the second round.  UMHB played 1 more game.  McMurry beat Trinity in the first round.
2015 -- UMHB beat HSU in the first round. UMHB played 2 more games

That has 2 effects on cumulative playoff records.

The losing team did not get a chance to notch another potential win against a non-ASC foe.
The ASC seems to have not gotten the chance to play a weaker seed in the bracket because of "geographic proximity".

The conference post-season record against non-ASC teams is 28-19 (.596)

(FAQ #9  http://www.d3football.com/interactive/faq/playoffs )

I honestly thought it would be more than 5 times in 12 years.  Then I noticed the post doesn't reflect other teams in TX outside of the ASC.

It is fair for the SCAC champ and the ASC champ to meet in the first round. McMurry was a Pool C bid and was sent to Trinity, the SCAC Champ in 2011.  Pool C UMHB was sent to Pool A Trinity in 2004.