2016 NCAA Tournament

[Brother Flounder]

2 most disappointing teams this past weekend:

Trinity(TX)----I did not know really what to expect from them this past weekend but the defensive miscues was not something i was expecting. They got absolutely pummeled by Kenyon and from what I saw did not pose much of a threat offensively either. Trinity(TX) of the past decade they were not.

Chicago------From what you all were saying they were missing 2 of their best players BUT still to not qualify out of what had to be the easiest pod this past weekemnd is very disappointing especially given their fantastic season

Especially agree on the Trinity assessment.  They looked very good in winning their home pod last weekend, and their best player, Wyke, returned to action in Medford this weekend.  I expected them to be very competitive and perhaps the favorite to emerge.

Trinity looked bad.  Kenyon was more athletic, faster and played better soccer....

[Mr.Right]

Bloots, for what it's worth, after seeing them in person (and I've seen them in person now four years in a row), I thought this was the most well-rounded team Brandeis has had . . .

NO way....IMO 2014 Brandeis had their most rounded and best team but they ran into an Oneonta side that was pretty nasty that year

We will see . . .  This year's team has already surpassed all predecessors.

Have you watched Brandeis in person this year?

Yes twice but I have seen them enough on the stream as well...Listen they are a very good team but the 2014 Brandeis side with Soboff and company would have this years side on its heels a but IMO...Bloots would be the best to analyze this one

[blooter442]

Yes twice but I have seen them enough on the stream as well...Listen they are a very good team but the 2014 Brandeis side with Soboff and company would have this years side on its heels a but IMO...Bloots would be the best to analyze this one

My first time on today, guess it was good timing!

Mr.Right, I posted yesterday that I will probably be on sparingly in the next two weeks due to changing jobs and Turkey Day. That's not to say I definitely won't be on at all, just not nearly as often as normal, which is perhaps good for all of us.

I definitely think that Brandeis' 2014 side was a better team than this year's Judges team, at least in terms of front-to-back talent. There were five players that year who I think are virtually irreplaceable: Lanahan, Ocel, Soboff, Savonen, and Lynch, and they also had other stars like Picard and Vieira. Obviously Vieira and Ocel are around this year and Lanahan and Lynch last year, but Savonen and Soboff were both difference-makers in the way that Santos was for Tufts: they were the players who could take a game by the scruff of the neck and do it all themselves.

Up front, taking the full season into account, I think 2014 Brandeis was better than 2016 Brandeis, although the Judges are scoring more goals now than they were earlier in the season. Defensively, the same, and I think the defensive improvement has been even more evident. The only area I would say where they are perhaps better this year is in midfield, as Ocel, Miskin, and Hernandez have been playing together for 3 years now, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Ocel be named an All-American again. In goal, they are perhaps even, as Graffy in 2014 and Woodhouse in 2016 were both very good, and Woodhouse has been a monster in the tournament and was HUGE against Amherst. Moreover, that team had an extremely impressive regular-season record, 17-2, compared to this year's team going 10-5-3, so the 2014 team's body of work in the regular season was undoubtedly more impressive.

I think the 2014 side certainly had the talent to go to the Final 4. The big difference was that Oneonta was even better, and the only shot Brandeis had was for the Judges to host the tourney. They probably would have hosted through the Elite 8 if not for a couple of hard-luck one-goal losses to Rochester and Chicago, both away. Oneonta was definitely a deserved Final 4 team, though, and I had no complaints about bowing out to them. Also, I think this year's team is playing its best soccer right now, whereas I think the 2014 side peaked in late September to early October: there was a stretch where the 2014 side was on an absolute tear, beating both the regional contenders (Tufts 2-0 home and Babson 2-0 away), and obliterating the average sides (I think they put 4 past Bridgewater and Clark as well as 5 past Hobart). By the end of the season, though, they were running on fumes - a lucky win at WashU on Halloween, 1-0 over NYU, and while they did enough to beat Bowdoin and Amherst in the tournament they had pretty much run out of gas by that point. This year's team, however, seems like it's only getting stronger, and has been on an impressive run since mid-October - almost the reverse of the 2014 side.

Now, to 1970s NESCAC Player's point, this year's team, while not as talented as the 2014 team, is perhaps more functional and less reliant on individual talent. This year, the only players I would classify as being real standouts based on their season-long performances are perhaps Ocel and Woodhouse. I was very critical of Brito in a few of the big losses as he made some big mistakes but he has really improved and I think perhaps all he needed was game time - his talent is evident. I also think that Vieira has come into form as of late, Jastremski has been playing well, Hernandez has been dominant in the midfield, and Vinson has been unreal at left back. I think Brandeis was definitely unlucky with injuries early on and lost Miskin in the midfield for a while, which I think definitely hurt, so perhaps having a healthy side is another factor that has contributed to this team's run.

All told, I still think that this year's Brandeis team wasn't quite as talented as that 2014 side in terms of aggregate talent in the starting XI. That said, I also said that this year's Tufts team wasn't nearly as talented as the 2014 side that won the national title, but the Jumbos are back in the Final 4, so what do I know? Ultimately, this year's Brandeis side has figured out a way to get to its first Final 4 in 32 years, so whatever they're doing is evidently working.

[Mr.Right]

Good analysis and I kind of figured you would agree with me on the talent side of 2014 Brandeis. New job or not you might have to come up with an excuse for next Friday to miss work...I already have taken a day off so I can catch the Semi's which are on at 11am and 130pm...With Brandeis in the Final 4 and possibly Coven's last match it would be worth ur while to miss work that day....I have a litany of excuses that I would be happy to share with u...lol...good luck

[wingtips2]

I know this may not be the forum for this, but congrats to the Chicago women for advancing to the final four along with fellow UAA sides Brandeis and WashU.

Impressive, and I wonder when the last time a conference had 3 members advance to the final 4 (Men's or Women's). Also, does Brandeis making the final 4 buy the oft criticized UAA a few months of reprieve? 

Hard for any conference other than the UAA to do that due to the (mostly) regional scheduling.

[blooter442]

Good analysis and I kind of figured you would agree with me on the talent side of 2014 Brandeis. New job or not you might have to come up with an excuse for next Friday to miss work...I already have taken a day off so I can catch the Semi's which are on at 11am and 130pm...With Brandeis in the Final 4 and possibly Coven's last match it would be worth ur while to miss work that day....I have a litany of excuses that I would be happy to share with u...lol...good luck

This made me laugh out loud, particularly the "litany of excuses" part. I will see what I can do!

[PaulNewman]

Still heartbroken but a bit sobered up with hopefully greater clarity of mind and perspective.  And so I offer what I hope will be my final thoughts on this season (while reserving the right to post once or twice during the Final Four)....

1) I'll start with Brandeis since that is a feel-good story I can endorse with no hint of a conflicted soul.  Brandeis is the team out of that group including Kenyon, Trinity, F&M, SLU, Chicago, Haverford, the NJAC top seed, etc that was pushing every year to break through and finally did so.   Huge congrats to Brandeis and Coach Coven.  And here is something that I think is relevant to the discussion above about Brandeis 2014 versus Brandeis 2016....EXPECTATIONS and PRESSURE.  The 2014 needed and felt pressure to go deep because of expectations, including self-imposed expectations.  Same with 2014 Kenyon which arguably was the best of the 2013 through 2016 teams while acknowledging that 2015 and 2016 were very close cousins.  There are not many teams who can go wire to wire.  Look at Chicago and Rowan (and Messiah) this year.  Messiah certainly did it in the past and as recently as 2013, and you can make a strong argument that Amherst after years of heartbreak and pressure did it in 2015.  Maybe OWU in 2011 (although OWU was saved having to contend with Messiah that year).  In general, though it's very difficult to do.  2016 Brandeis perhaps could just relax and give things a go in a way they couldn't when they were expected to at least go Elite 8 with at least one Final Four during those years.  Our own blooter had Brandeis dead and buried just a few weeks ago, and wasn't convinced even the week of selections that Brandeis would get in.  Anyway, the role of pressure and the benefit of a good team coming out of nowhere might be worth further discussion.  In Kenyon's run the "happiest" one even in eventual defeat was probably the 2013 edition that seemingly came out of nowhere to make a run and announce its presence on the national stage that would then run through this year and hopefully beyond.

2) "The Play."  Not sexy I know but it's not my job to promote Tufts any more especially today.  After watching probably 25-30 times looking at where everyone was positioned and what unfolded it is clear to me that the Majumder goal was a good goal.  Great play especially if designed as they said in the press conference.  Surprising that they pulled something out in the 109th minute that they hadn't already tried (or maybe they did), but the throw midway to a tall player to nod deeper into Majumder at the six was a very nice play.  Who wouldn't want Majumder with the ball at his feet at the six?  That said, Kenyon after mostly shutting down Tufts the whole game save for the one really clean look that Halliday had, didn't do a great job on that play.  They well knew from Majumder scoring twice in Gambier that he is a danger man.  I might have to look again but there did not seem to be any risk coming from the weak side (a la how Lowry got the game winner from a ball played over by Myers versus Lynchburg).  Seems Kenyon should have had a player on both sides of Majumder so he couldn't turn either way and then also Clougher would not have had to come out.  I wonder if Myers was screened too because he was within a second or so of being able to come from where he was positioned to clear the ball off the line.  Also wonder if Clougher could have jumped the ball before it reached Majumder.  Kenyon also put zero pressure on Eichorst heading off the throw.  At any rate, after such superb defending all game just hate to have it end like that from the Lords point of view.  Clougher has been one of the best GKs in the country for four consecutive years, and while I think there are CB duos perhaps equal to Myers and Lowry I don't there are any that are any better.  Most know about Myers.  Lowry has been brilliant as well.  They're both really skilled as well with tight control contrary to some of the superficial views about Kenyon and possession.  They both return, so barring injuries that duo will remain intact for another year.  How they replace Clougher is another story.

3) The "revenge" thing.  Guess I was wrong, because Shapiro actually endorsed the revenge angle in response to a question at the press conference.  Maybe this is a budding intersectional rivalry which will continue.  Maybe words were exchanged last year on on the field yesterday.  Maybe it really just is about who ended your season the previous year.  I don't know.  My struggle in understanding it, and perhaps these are just two different things, is that my reaction is that there is a major false equivalency.  Tufts had just won a national title and was not a favorite in 2015.  Much like this year, and perhaps more so than this year, there was a question about Tufts even making the tournament.  Then they beat Montclair and had a good run to the Sweet 16.  Kenyon was supposed to win that game, even if you consider the teams even last year or even if secretly (or not so secretly) one thought Tufts was better.  Now if Tufts feels entitled to win the national title every year then I get it, but I doubt that's how they feel.  So from my perspective we're talking about a team that just recently won a national title, extremely well-earned but also not expected, and another team that was still waiting to break through.  Maybe it's just a matter of who your team is but I just don't see how Tufts could have been so worked up about a team still striving when you just reached the promised land the year before.  I'l also say that Shapiro was not nearly as generous as I expected.  He was fine, mind you.  He didn't say anything unprofessional or really provocative, but he certainly did not go out of his way to give Kenyon its due or talk about what a great, truly competitive game it was, how it could have gone either way, know what Kenyon's seniors feel like, etc, etc.  Like I said, he is absolutely under no obligation to do so...and he didn't.  Mildly surprised.

4) I won't concede that Tufts was "better,' regardless of who says that, just like I doubt any Tufts fans would concede that Kenyon was "better" last year.  From my point of view these were two very well-matched and even teams.  I think both took each other to the limits of the other.  If Kenyon had scored the minute before when they served 4-5 balls into the box in a sequence and had a good shot at the six go wide I don't think there would have been any screams of an unfair or significantly unbalanced result.  Kenyon also had a couple of dangerous free kicks that one would have hoped tested Greenwood more.  The game went in waves in very tough conditions and often against what we'd expect.  Kenyon carried more play (and possession) in the 1st half going into the wind, which Shapiro did acknowledge, and then Tufts did the same during the first half of the 2nd half.  The game went back and forth from there.  I don't think Tufts would have beaten Trinity 4-0.  I also don't think Kenyon would beat Trinity again 4-0.  Trinity doesn't suck.  Trinity almost took out Amherst last year and the performance of Redlands this year (taking out Chicago) shows that the West has some good teams.  But Kenyon did out-possess a possession oriented team in Trinity and Kenyon possessed a lot in the 1st half with Tufts (by necessity really as that was the only way to get through that 1st half).  It was a tough day to judge and I don't think any hard conclusions should be reached based on how a team played one day in those conditions.  I view Kenyon as a hybrid team.  In response to a question about Kenyon "always playing balls in the air," Shapiro actually compared Kenyon to Amherst, and in so doing also said they were perhaps prepared for Kenyon's pressure because that is how much of the NESCAC plays.  One difference though is that Kenyon was pressuring and winning balls in the middle third instead of Tufts half of the field in part because of the wind.  That's one thing that might have been a little different on another day.  I also react to the notions that Tufts just loves possession and only plays beautiful soccer.  Tufts is a hybrid too, maybe 40/60 instead of 60/40, but a hybrid still.  Sullivan and Coleman had plenty of big clearances, and Sullivan is superb in the enforcer role but don't for a minute think that he is not an enforcer.  Tufts is very physical and as I commented yesterday very, very big.  The kid who started up top, Najjar (sp?), Eichhorst, Rojas, etc are even bigger than the CBs.  Rojas btw made a difference when he came in.  Tufts' size had an impact on Kenyon just as I think that made a difference versus UMass-Boston (who by the way were for real and could have won that game with a big break here or there...and their full team).  With all those caveats out of the way, I will say this...Tufts was the best and most challenging team Kenyon played all year, and Kenyon played more than a handful of really good teams.  I heard 4th hand that the Kenyon players felt that way too.  As I said, I think both teams pushed each other to their limits in less than ideal conditions.  It was a worthy battle in the Elite 8, and yes, a bitter one for either team to lose.

5) PKs.... PKs always get a rap or a bad rap as a terrible way to lose.  I'd like to amend that.  Sometimes it's better to lose in PKs because at least when you begin the PK shootout you KNOW there is a decent chance you are going to lose.  That means you have time while it's happening (as a fan and as a player) to absorb at least a little bit that you might not advance.  A loss in sudden death OT feels different.  Yes, you know the other team might score, but you don't see when and where that might happen...and often it still FEELS totally unexpected in a way you can't steel yourself for.  I would have rather "lost" yesterday in PKs even though I know that would have been pretty painful as well given the stakes and what the game meant to my team.


6) Attendance and Fri/Sat Final Fours....I was curious about attendance at the Calvin-Messiah game and saw they had 1700+.  By any measure that's a great D3 turnout.  I checked the Messiah-Kenyon game in 2013 which was on a Saturday night and then attendance was just short of 3000.  The next night versus F&M on a Sunday night was 1700+.  Decent attendance at the Final Four is challenging enough and the Fri/Sat set-up (and yes, I know why) makes it worse.  There might be only 200-300 people for games that deserve at least 1000+ and preferably 2000+.  The early times are brutal too.  I don't care that much now, but if I did I would have to take off from work to make sure I could see 11:00 and 1:30 games.

7) I enjoy reading the posts of anyone I've ever bumped heads with on this site.  Mr.Right, I'll continue to love you.  Keep up the good work.

8) Where the heck is Bowdoin when you really need them?

9) NCAC out.....

[Mr.Right]

NO hard feelings...I always cool down after 5 minutes anyway in life and forget what I was even arguing about in the 1st place. You do a nice justice for this site with your wholehearted and profound commentary. BTW disagreements are the best part of this site because it opens up other discussion topics and gets more people involved.

[Mr.Right]

Speaking of disagreements, I have to disagree with your thoughts on the Tufts press conference after the game. I thought Greenwood, Majumder and Shaprio were very thoughtful and humble in their victory. I am not sure what else could have been said that you would of like to hear...


BTW---Speaking of Press Conferences I thought UMASS Boston's coach and two captains were also very humble after their loss to Tufts. They played hard in that game and were not dirty at all against Tufts so they can go out of the tournament on a high note not a low one. You can tell the players absolutely love Beverlin and what he does for them on an off the field. I agreed with his assessment that he was surprised in the 1st Half that Tufts was not pressing them as much as he thought they would. I also agree with that but that could have been the game plan by Tufts. It is quite possible and just a guess that Beverlin might be to close to his players and there is not a Coach / Player line but that is just a guess. Either way UMB went out with class after the fiasco at Haverford.

[PaulNewman]

Speaking of disagreements, I have to disagree with your thoughts on the Tufts press conference after the game. I thought Greenwood, Majumder and Shaprio were very thoughtful and humble in their victory. I am not sure what else could have been said that you would of like to hear...

You're right (per usual  ).  Some sour grapes I'm sure but doing my best to cope.

I said he was fine.  Just thought based on what have read about him here and heard about him that he might be a little more magnanimous.  Pretty sure Kenyon would not have been more magnanimous, but I guess I expected more from Shapiro.  Maybe they were still stunned and overcome about getting back to Final Four.  I can tell you that watching live -- and I am an eternal pessimist -- that all the way until Tufts scored I thought Kenyon was going to win.

BTW, I am very familiar with Greenwood back to high school days.  A tremendous competitor and has had a phenomenal career for an undersized GK.  Clougher has been great in PK shootouts but given how tough Greenwood is and the home crowd I would have guessed 60/40 that Tufts would have prevailed.

And since Serpone gets mentioned a lot negatively I'll just add that I've noticed he has been very complimentary and gracious with his comments (published) in aftermath of both wins and losses.

[Saint of Old]

A few Thoughts:

Hats off to a wonderful Dynasty:

When Messiah begin the 2017 season, it will be the first time in 16 years that no player on the roster has a championship under their belt.
This is just absolutely amazing considering the level of competition at D3 soccer.
In sports we are cautioned never to say never, but I just do not see another program having that type of greatness at the highest level for such a sustained period of time.

I think there are teams who have consistently been able to compete consistently (a decade or more)  at a very high level in our sport (Loras/Amherst/OWU/Wheaton/Williams/SLU/Oneonta) to name a few, but to win titles year after year. I just do not see it happening again.

Hats off to Tufts:
Proved that they have the heart of a champion, by getting themselves in a position to do what only Wheaton/OWU/Messiah have done in the modern era, win more than one crown.
This program  is obviously very legit. The mark of a great program is the improvement of players year after year. I think Tufts has done this very well.

Hats off to Brandies:
The 1976 Champions and 1984 runners up  have waited 4 decades to be here, and something tells me they will not disappoint.
Despite the wait, they have been knocking at the door for the past 5-6 years, and a win for Coven would be what all disinterested  (objective) fans will be pulling for I'm sure.

Hats off to Calvin:

The Dutch of D3 soccer.
Finalists in 2009 and 2011 were disappointed in not reaching the promiseland, but are in prime position to get over the hump this year. I also think many neutrals will want to see Calvin finally pull it off and enter the elite club of Champions. They play the right way, and the program deserves the win, but deserving a championship means nothing unless you snatch it up and squeeze tight.

Hats off to St. Thomas

Might be time for a Saint to take the title again
In all seriousness, this is a real feel good story, and if any season were made for a total upset, this would be it.
I don't think these boyz are wearing a glass slipper however, in D3, you get to the final 4 it means you are a dangerous team.
A title would cement the programs legacy and point it upwards for sure!

[blooter442]

You're right (per usual  ).  Some sour grapes I'm sure but doing my best to cope.

I said he was fine.  Just thought based on what have read about him here and heard about him that he might be a little more magnanimous.  Pretty sure Kenyon would not have been more magnanimous, but I guess I expected more from Shapiro.

To be fair to him, he did say that it was a "very good Kenyon team" and that "we knew we'd have our hands full," so he did offer praise even if it wasn't a significant amount.

As for the earlier point about the incongruity of the respective programs being pained by losing, I personally would agree that the pain of losing in the Sweet 16 the year after winning a national title perhaps doesn't equate to the pain of losing in the Elite 8 for a program that's been chasing the Final 4 for years, and so the former perhaps doesn't have a strong justification for wanting "revenge." In that case, I agree that one has certainly been to the Promised Land, while the other hasn't had the chance to taste it, and so the former should be grateful. But I'd say that all programs are selfish - they want to win no matter how many times the team has (or hasn't) won. I'd say the big thing is that even programs who have tasted success are greedy for more, and any exit from the tournament - regardless of the stage - can invoke the desire for revenge, even if it's perhaps not as justified as other cases.

Back to Shapiro, perhaps I and others hyped up his demeanor too much. That said, I think Shapiro being a class act - which I still think he is - doesn't necessarily mean that he is super magnanimous/warm/friendly. In fact, from my observations of him he seems very much like the archetypal pragmatist who really doesn't get too high or low regardless of the situation. For me, I hold him in high regard due to his even keel, particularly when his team isn't doing well: he isn't the type of coach hassling and yelling at the ref and doesn't hold sour grapes in his comments when the Jumbos lose, which is admittedly not extremely often. Of course, you can be disappointed, but given that it's very easy to go from disappointment to bitterness in bad situations, the fact that he does not do that - at least publicly - is admirable.

[PaulNewman]

You're right (per usual  ).  Some sour grapes I'm sure but doing my best to cope.

I said he was fine.  Just thought based on what have read about him here and heard about him that he might be a little more magnanimous.  Pretty sure Kenyon would not have been more magnanimous, but I guess I expected more from Shapiro.

To be fair to him, he did say that it was a "very good Kenyon team" and that "we knew we'd have our hands full," so he did offer praise even if it wasn't a significant amount.

As for the earlier point about the incongruity of the respective programs being pained by losing, I personally would agree that the pain of losing in the Sweet 16 the year after winning a national title perhaps doesn't equate to the pain of losing in the Elite 8 for a program that's been chasing the Final 4 for years, and so the former perhaps doesn't have a strong justification for wanting "revenge." In that case, I agree that one has certainly been to the Promised Land, while the other hasn't had the chance to taste it, and so the former should be grateful. But I'd say that all programs are selfish - they want to win no matter how many times the team has (or hasn't) won. I'd say the big thing is that even programs who have tasted success are greedy for more, and any exit from the tournament - regardless of the stage - can invoke the desire for revenge, even if it's perhaps not as justified as other cases.

Back to Shapiro, perhaps I and others hyped up his demeanor too much. That said, I think Shapiro being a class act - which I still think he is - doesn't necessarily mean that he is super magnanimous/warm/friendly. In fact, from my observations of him he seems very much like the archetypal pragmatist who really doesn't get too high or low regardless of the situation. For me, I hold him in high regard due to his even keel, particularly when his team isn't doing well: he isn't the type of coach hassling and yelling at the ref and doesn't hold sour grapes in his comments when the Jumbos lose, which is admittedly not extremely often. Of course, you can be disappointed, but given that it's very easy to go from disappointment to bitterness in bad situations, the fact that he does not do that - at least publicly - is admirable.

And you were right.  I watched again and that stuff is in there, so I overreacted (shocking!) and I apologize to Tufts Nation.  You also were right that it wasn't effusive, so maybe on first listen I heard what I wanted to hear.  I guess I thought he might start his "opening statement" with "wow, what an exciting, great game" or something like that.  Already made way to much of it, and of course there is no Kenyon post-game conference to be found, so we can read into that whatever we wish.

Can always count on the Blootmeister to take pains to be fair which is appreciated regarding the other comments.  And I think sometimes we praise some unduly and hammer others unduly.

[blooter442]

And you were right.  I watched again and that stuff is in there, so I overreacted (shocking!) and I apologize to Tufts Nation.  You also were right that it wasn't effusive, so maybe on first listen I heard what I wanted to hear.  I guess I thought he might start his "opening statement" with "wow, what an exciting, great game" or something like that.  Already made way to much of it, and of course there is no Kenyon post-game conference to be found, so we can read into that whatever we wish.

Can always count on the Blootmeister to take pains to be fair which is appreciated regarding the other comments.  And I think sometimes we praise some unduly and hammer others unduly.

I appreciate the compliment and like that name - if only I could change my username! +K

[1970s NESCAC Player]

And you were right.  I watched again and that stuff is in there, so I overreacted (shocking!) and I apologize to Tufts Nation.  You also were right that it wasn't effusive, so maybe on first listen I heard what I wanted to hear.  I guess I thought he might start his "opening statement" with "wow, what an exciting, great game" or something like that.  Already made way to much of it, and of course there is no Kenyon post-game conference to be found, so we can read into that whatever we wish.

Can always count on the Blootmeister to take pains to be fair which is appreciated regarding the other comments.  And I think sometimes we praise some unduly and hammer others unduly.

I appreciate the compliment and like that name - if only I could change my username! +K

You may not be able to change your Username, but you can change the name that appears next to your posts.  Go to Profile/Account Settings and then change your Name (not Username).  Blootmeister . . .