2016 NCAA Tournament

Started by Mid-Atlantic Fan, November 08, 2016, 08:46:11 AM

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2xfaux

While things are a bit calm for the next week or so, I have a "soccer speak" question that I am sure you folks can answer.  It is an "is" and "are" question.  I know that the Jumbos "are" on a roll.  Does that also mean Tufts "are" on a roll?  I know that in the World Cup Germany "are" a good side and the U.S. "are" not so much.  Barcelona is a wonderful city and Barcelona are a good side.  Tufts "is" a great university and the Tuft's University Men's Soccer Team "is" or "are" headed back to the final four??   

Brother Flounder

#601
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 22, 2016, 01:26:01 PM
A few Thoughts:

Hats off to a wonderful Dynasty:

When Messiah begin the 2017 season, it will be the first time in 16 years that no player on the roster has a championship under their belt.
This is just absolutely amazing considering the level of competition at D3 soccer.
In sports we are cautioned never to say never, but I just do not see another program having that type of greatness at the highest level for such a sustained period of time.

I think there are teams who have consistently been able to compete consistently (a decade or more)  at a very high level in our sport (Loras/Amherst/OWU/Wheaton/Williams/SLU/Oneonta) to name a few, but to win titles year after year. I just do not see it happening again.

Hats off to Tufts:
Proved that they have the heart of a champion, by getting themselves in a position to do what only Wheaton/OWU/Messiah have done in the modern era, win more than one crown.
This program  is obviously very legit. The mark of a great program is the improvement of players year after year. I think Tufts has done this very well.

Hats off to Brandies:
The 1976 Champions and 1984 runners up  have waited 4 decades to be here, and something tells me they will not disappoint.
Despite the wait, they have been knocking at the door for the past 5-6 years, and a win for Coven would be what all disinterested  (objective) fans will be pulling for I'm sure.

Hats off to Calvin:

The Dutch of D3 soccer.
Finalists in 2009 and 2011 were disappointed in not reaching the promiseland, but are in prime position to get over the hump this year. I also think many neutrals will want to see Calvin finally pull it off and enter the elite club of Champions. They play the right way, and the program deserves the win, but deserving a championship means nothing unless you snatch it up and squeeze tight.

Hats off to St. Thomas

Might be time for a Saint to take the title again :)
In all seriousness, this is a real feel good story, and if any season were made for a total upset, this would be it.
I don't think these boyz are wearing a glass slipper however, in D3, you get to the final 4 it means you are a dangerous team.
A title would cement the programs legacy and point it upwards for sure!

Very nice post!  +K.  I think it's like hockey, any team with a good defense and hot goaltending has a good chance of winning. I haven't watched enough of all 4 teams to judge, but I have seen 3 of the 4, and they have good defenses.  Also, any of the 4 teams can get hot and win.  Unless, there is a clear favorite, like Messiah in past years, I really won't be surprised by the team that wins the title.  Yes, NCAC, if Kenyon had beaten Tufts, i wouldn't be surprised if they won the title.  They were a quality side capable of it. One other thing....BLOOOOOTS!

blooter442

Quote from: Brother Flounder on November 22, 2016, 02:59:28 PM
Very nice post!  +K.  I think it's like hockey, any team with a good defense and hot goaltending has a good chance of winning. I haven't watched enough of all 4 teams to judge, but I have seen 3 of the 4, and they have good defenses.  Also, any of the 4 teams can get hot and win.  Unless, there is a clear favorite, like Messiah in past years, I really won't be surprised by the team that wins the title.  Yes, NCAC, if Kenyon had beaten Tufts, i wouldn't be surprised if they won the title.  They were a quality side capable of it. One other thing....BLOOOOOTS!

* Blootmeister

;)

(Don't worry, I don't actually expect people to call me that. But I very much agree that good defense and hot goaltending can get a team a long way, especially at a time of year when goals are at a premium.)

Mr.Right

To think myself in particular was starting to question whether Shapiro had "lost" his team way back in 2012 or 2013...I am to lazy to go back to old posts but I can remember when I was questioning if Shapiro was "over-coaching" after snagging such a great class in his 2nd year at Tufts. I was to quick to judge but that 2015 class was so talented that by their Sophomore year(2012) they were really struggling and I remember questioning if Shapiro was "over-coaching" or not allowing Santos, Hoppenot,etc to play with flair and not worrying about defending(especially Santos). In all, it just took more time than normal for all of them to gel but when it did gel man did they get it done in 2014..

Brother Flounder

#604
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2016, 03:24:39 PM
To think myself in particular was starting to question whether Shapiro had "lost" his team way back in 2012 or 2013...I am to lazy to go back to old posts but I can remember when I was questioning if Shapiro was "over-coaching" after snagging such a great class in his 2nd year at Tufts. I was to quick to judge but that 2015 class was so talented that by their Sophomore year(2012) they were really struggling and I remember questioning if Shapiro was "over-coaching" or not allowing Santos, Hoppenot,etc to play with flair and not worrying about defending(especially Santos). In all, it just took more time than normal for all of them to gel but when it did gel man did they get it done in 2014..

I remember those posts!  The tools were in place in 2014.  Some of the posts stemmed from Tufts not making the NCAA's in 2013, and Santos starting 2014 on the bench.... However, the stellar defense, inclusive of Monil Patel (whose not often mentioned with Kramer and Williams), the goaltending, the vision and passing at midfield, and the feisty Hoppenot, did finally put it together.  I remember people stating that Tufts may have had the best tournament run in history being on the road against all favorites, including the then invincible Messiah, but that they weren't one of the great champions.  Since time has passed, with reflection, that team sure looks pretty good, certainly with the multiple components... Finally, I seem to recall a Wheaton poster stating that they never heard of Tufts before the final 4........

1970s NESCAC Player

Quote from: 2xfaux on November 22, 2016, 02:40:08 PM
While things are a bit calm for the next week or so, I have a "soccer speak" question that I am sure you folks can answer.  It is an "is" and "are" question.  I know that the Jumbos "are" on a roll.  Does that also mean Tufts "are" on a roll?  I know that in the World Cup Germany "are" a good side and the U.S. "are" not so much.  Barcelona is a wonderful city and Barcelona are a good side.  Tufts "is" a great university and the Tuft's University Men's Soccer Team "is" or "are" headed back to the final four??   

Tufts "are" headed back to the Final 4.  It appears to be an English thing to refer to a team in the plural.  Perhaps, even though a team is a singular unit, the reference comes from the fact that the team consists of 11 players.

Mid-Atlantic Fan

Tournament Bracket Extravaganza Standings

MAF: Rd1= 44 points  Rd2= 44 points Rd3= 8 points Rd4= 0 Rd5= 0 Rd6= 0  Total 96 points

Shooter: Rd1= 44 points  Rd2= 40 points  Rd3= 16 points Rd4= 0 Rd5= 0 Rd6= 0  Total 100 points

LastGuy: Rd1=42 points  Rd2= 52 points Rd3= 32 points Rd4= 0 Rd5= 0 Rd6= 0   Total 126 points

Swibbles: Rd1= 54 points  Rd2= 28 points Rd3= 8 points Rd4= 0 Rd5= 0 Rd6= 0   Total 90 points

NJrexSoccer03: Rd1= 44 points  Rd2= 36 points Rd3= 24 points Rd4= 0 Rd5= 0 Rd6= 0    Total 104 points

D3 Scout: Rd1= 42 points  Rd2= 32 points Rd3= 16 points Rd4= 0 Rd5= 0 Rd6= 0  Total 90 points

Pelinho: Rd1= 48 points  Rd2 40 points Rd3= 24 points Rd4= 32 points  Rd5= ? Rd6= 0   Total 144 points *Potential 32 points left for you*

***Please double and triple check your score. I apologize in advance for any errors or miscalculations!!***

Round 1 is worth 2 points
Round 2 is worth 4 points
Round 3 is worth 8 points
Round 4 is worth 16 points
Round 5 is worth 32 points
Champion is worth 64 points


Congrats to Pelinho05 on winning this year's bracket challenge!

PaulNewman

Thanks 1970s NESCAC Player!

Ah, nothing better than that fresh haircut feeling and a bit of a gestalt shift.

Ommadawn

Paul Newman (pka NCAC NE), I join Mr. Right (and others) in appreciating your insightful commentary after the "pure devastation" that you experienced on Sunday.  Knowing your allegiance beforehand, I couldn't help thinking about what being at the game was like for you while watching the webcast.  I hope that Pennebaker is correct and that your bouts of "expressive writing" (and new moniker) have served therapeutic ends! 

Despite my general impression that the wind was the true winner of the game, I thought that the match pitted two programs that are at, or near, full maturity.  Both schools have, over a similar period of time, joined the top tier of D3 programs to the extent that when they lose their impact players to graduation, they don't rebuild, they reload.  In New England at least, they compete for some of the same players in recruiting. If the past two years are any indication, Kenyon and Tufts can expect to meet again in the NCAA tournament and undoubtedly will play a memorable game when they do. 

I found one of your comments especially interesting:

Quote from: PaulNewmanLords'49 on November 20, 2016, 05:13:03 PMKenyon is not used to that, as Tufts seemed to roll out a slew of 6'2 and over players with several 6'4/6'5.   Shapiro must recruit for size....

They are the Jumbos, aren't they  ;) (although "Majumbos" might be more appropriate given the exploits of their talisman, with a big tip of the trunk to Becherano for rising to the occasion and carrying the offensive load this year).  In seriousness, however, I wonder if the size of the Tufts players is a direct reflection of the NESCAC arms (legs?) race to come up with a roster that can defend the tall attackers that Amherst seems to roll out with regularity.


1970s NESCAC Player

Quote from: PaulNewmanLords'49 on November 22, 2016, 07:11:38 PM
Thanks 1970s NESCAC Player!

Ah, nothing better than that fresh haircut feeling and a bit of a gestalt shift.

I forgot that Newman went to Kenyon!  Well played . . .

PaulNewman

Quote from: Ommadawn on November 22, 2016, 11:28:37 PM
Paul Newman (pka NCAC NE), I join Mr. Right (and others) in appreciating your insightful commentary after the "pure devastation" that you experienced on Sunday.  Knowing your allegiance beforehand, I couldn't help thinking about what being at the game was like for you while watching the webcast.  I hope that Pennebaker is correct and that your bouts of "expressive writing" (and new moniker) have served therapeutic ends! 

Despite my general impression that the wind was the true winner of the game, I thought that the match pitted two programs that are at, or near, full maturity.  Both schools have, over a similar period of time, joined the top tier of D3 programs to the extent that when they lose their impact players to graduation, they don't rebuild, they reload.  In New England at least, they compete for some of the same players in recruiting. If the past two years are any indication, Kenyon and Tufts can expect to meet again in the NCAA tournament and undoubtedly will play a memorable game when they do. 

I found one of your comments especially interesting:

Quote from: PaulNewmanLords'49 on November 20, 2016, 05:13:03 PMKenyon is not used to that, as Tufts seemed to roll out a slew of 6'2 and over players with several 6'4/6'5.   Shapiro must recruit for size....

They are the Jumbos, aren't they  ;) (although "Majumbos" might be more appropriate given the exploits of their talisman, with a big tip of the trunk to Becherano for rising to the occasion and carrying the offensive load this year).  In seriousness, however, I wonder if the size of the Tufts players is a direct reflection of the NESCAC arms (legs?) race to come up with a roster that can defend the tall attackers that Amherst seems to roll out with regularity.

Thanks.  I appreciate your post, Ommadawn.

I'll respond backwards. I've had the same thought about Amherst re: why Tufts is such an unusually large team...although supposedly being committed to a very different style while still accounting for the size/style of one team sounds complicated.  Maybe that makes sense when you throw in Midd and Williams as also tending to have some big (and tall) kids, but perhaps it is also just coincidence.  Certainly it did not seem like coincidence when Shapiro decided to start 6'4/6'5 Braun for the first time all season over the two highest scorers over the last two years (and that may well have had more to do with the conditions than the specific opponent).  He also put Rojas, Najjar and Eichhorst in at opportune times and Kenyon struggled to handle them.  Would be interesting to hear directly from Shapiro what he was thinking.  At any rate, I certainly was not contesting that Tufts plays good soccer.  My point was simply that that doesn't mean they also aren't tough and physical, as indicated by frequently out-fouling opponents as they did again on Sunday.  Not a knock but more an endorsement of how competitive they are.  Teams want to win above all else and hardly anyone is going to choose aesthetics over winning.  I watched Tufts play Brandeis live last year and was duly impressed with their overall package of talent, skill, speed and athleticism/physicality.

I think there are parallels between the programs and where they currently are at.  I think, though, that it's important to remember that they are newer or at least resurgent programs.  As Mr.Right likes to say, Shapiro's predecessor left him a bag of beat-up deflated balls and a ring of cones.  Kenyon had not had a winning season in years, much less a NCAA bid, when Brown took over.  Programs require a very committed and talented coach to build a program, to tend to the grass so to speak once the program develops, and then continually look for ways to improve.  Being at a very attractive institution certainly helps but is by no means a guarantee.  Tufts has become one of the hottest schools in the country, mostly shedding its unfair reputation as a great fallback option for Ivy League rejects/wannabes.  It is unique among the NESCACs in terms of size, range of offerings and location right outside one of the country's great cities.  It seems Shapiro has leveraged the Tufts "difference" to great advantage.  Kenyon is one of the "Midwest NESCACs" along with Oberlin, Carleton, Grinnell and Macalester. [DePauw and Denison are also similar in terms of NCAC schools.]  I don't know anything about how Tufts and Kenyon may have overlapped in seeking recruits, as Kenyon is so different from Tufts and seems more naturally an overlap with Colby and Bates among NESCACs while Oberlin would overlap with Wesleyan.  Now that's in terms of how students in general looking at these schools would tend to migrate, so maybe that doesn't hold with athletic recruiting.  In any case, just thinking about some of those schools just mentioned with a mix of some doing well with soccer and others not so much yields important tells about what is necessary to sustained athletic success in any particular sport.

As for my psychological state during the game, as I said, I was unusually confident (for me) that Kenyon was going to prevail all the way to the 109th minute when I was trying to figure out where we should position ourselves for PKs.  So yeah, I was devastated, but I thoroughly enjoyed the weekend overall and it was a wonderful treat to see Kenyon play in the Boston area so we could actually see them play.  It was good to see so many Kenyon folks show up and frankly the turnout was as good or better than some home games (sans students).  Remember that almost all posters who opined thought Trinity would handle Kenyon rather easily.  That was bizarre to me, as though some have no idea about Kenyon's standing in the current D3 soccer world, but even with the loss, the exposure in a different area of the country that is very popular and D3-soccer-centric yielded what I think was a big net plus.  I think by almost any measure Kenyon showed well as I knew they would.  One of the biggest challenges I would guess for Kenyon with recruiting is just getting kids to visit Gambier.  Now certainly it is not for everyone and especially those craving a big urban environment, but for many it is magic at first sight.  Knowing that as a soccer player you can go there and also play for a top D3 program is very attractive.

Areas for improvement, as though I have some say, which I very resoundingly do not....a trip every year or at a minimum every other year to New England, Pennsylvania (beyond Pittsburgh so like Messiah, F&M, Haverford/Swat) or Jersey, or Chicago area....an overseas trip or equivalent as frequently as allowed by the NCAA....more aggressive inclusion and involvement of the alumni base, including more aggressive marketing of alumni successes so parents of potential recruits can feel even more confident and knowledgeable about where a Kenyon education can lead given its remote and sort of quirky location....and greater commitment to the idea that all players will be taken care of and supported whether they end up playing a lot or not especially in this era of these colleges costing 60-65K+ a year.  Kenyon is pretty good with financial aid and also has the advantage of some merit aid, but the latter of course only comes into play for kids at or near the top of the admissions pool.

Brother Flounder

Quote from: PaulNewmanLords'49 on November 23, 2016, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 22, 2016, 11:28:37 PM
Paul Newman (pka NCAC NE), I join Mr. Right (and others) in appreciating your insightful commentary after the "pure devastation" that you experienced on Sunday.  Knowing your allegiance beforehand, I couldn't help thinking about what being at the game was like for you while watching the webcast.  I hope that Pennebaker is correct and that your bouts of "expressive writing" (and new moniker) have served therapeutic ends! 

Despite my general impression that the wind was the true winner of the game, I thought that the match pitted two programs that are at, or near, full maturity.  Both schools have, over a similar period of time, joined the top tier of D3 programs to the extent that when they lose their impact players to graduation, they don't rebuild, they reload.  In New England at least, they compete for some of the same players in recruiting. If the past two years are any indication, Kenyon and Tufts can expect to meet again in the NCAA tournament and undoubtedly will play a memorable game when they do. 

I found one of your comments especially interesting:

Quote from: PaulNewmanLords'49 on November 20, 2016, 05:13:03 PMKenyon is not used to that, as Tufts seemed to roll out a slew of 6'2 and over players with several 6'4/6'5.   Shapiro must recruit for size....

They are the Jumbos, aren't they  ;) (although "Majumbos" might be more appropriate given the exploits of their talisman, with a big tip of the trunk to Becherano for rising to the occasion and carrying the offensive load this year).  In seriousness, however, I wonder if the size of the Tufts players is a direct reflection of the NESCAC arms (legs?) race to come up with a roster that can defend the tall attackers that Amherst seems to roll out with regularity.

Thanks.  I appreciate your post, Ommadawn.

I'll respond backwards. I've had the same thought about Amherst re: why Tufts is such an unusually large team...although supposedly being committed to a very different style while still accounting for the size/style of one team sounds complicated.  Maybe that makes sense when you throw in Midd and Williams as also tending to have some big (and tall) kids, but perhaps it is also just coincidence.  Certainly it did not seem like coincidence when Shapiro decided to start 6'4/6'5 Braun for the first time all season over the two highest scorers over the last two years (and that may well have had more to do with the conditions than the specific opponent).  He also put Rojas, Najjar and Eichhorst in at opportune times and Kenyon struggled to handle them.  Would be interesting to hear directly from Shapiro what he was thinking.  At any rate, I certainly was not contesting that Tufts plays good soccer.  My point was simply that that doesn't mean they also aren't tough and physical, as indicated by frequently out-fouling opponents as they did again on Sunday.  Not a knock but more an endorsement of how competitive they are.  Teams want to win above all else and hardly anyone is going to choose aesthetics over winning.  I watched Tufts play Brandeis live last year and was duly impressed with their overall package of talent, skill, speed and athleticism/physicality.

I think there are parallels between the programs and where they currently are at.  I think, though, that it's important to remember that they are newer or at least resurgent programs.  As Mr.Right likes to say, Shapiro's predecessor left him a bag of beat-up deflated balls and a ring of cones.  Kenyon had not had a winning season in years, much less a NCAA bid, when Brown took over.  Programs require a very committed and talented coach to build a program, to tend to the grass so to speak once the program develops, and then continually look for ways to improve.  Being at a very attractive institution certainly helps but is by no means a guarantee.  Tufts has become one of the hottest schools in the country, mostly shedding its unfair reputation as a great fallback option for Ivy League rejects/wannabes.  It is unique among the NESCACs in terms of size, range of offerings and location right outside one of the country's great cities.  It seems Shapiro has leveraged the Tufts "difference" to great advantage.  Kenyon is one of the "Midwest NESCACs" along with Oberlin, Carleton, Grinnell and Macalester. [DePauw and Denison are also similar in terms of NCAC schools.]  I don't know anything about how Tufts and Kenyon may have overlapped in seeking recruits, as Kenyon is so different from Tufts and seems more naturally an overlap with Colby and Bates among NESCACs while Oberlin would overlap with Wesleyan.  Now that's in terms of how students in general looking at these schools would tend to migrate, so maybe that doesn't hold with athletic recruiting.  In any case, just thinking about some of those schools just mentioned with a mix of some doing well with soccer and others not so much yields important tells about what is necessary to sustained athletic success in any particular sport.

As for my psychological state during the game, as I said, I was unusually confident (for me) that Kenyon was going to prevail all the way to the 109th minute when I was trying to figure out where we should position ourselves for PKs.  So yeah, I was devastated, but I thoroughly enjoyed the weekend overall and it was a wonderful treat to see Kenyon play in the Boston area so we could actually see them play.  It was good to see so many Kenyon folks show up and frankly the turnout was as good or better than some home games (sans students).  Remember that almost all posters who opined thought Trinity would handle Kenyon rather easily.  That was bizarre to me, as though some have no idea about Kenyon's standing in the current D3 soccer world, but even with the loss, the exposure in a different area of the country that is very popular and D3-soccer-centric yielded what I think was a big net plus.  I think by almost any measure Kenyon showed well as I knew they would.  One of the biggest challenges I would guess for Kenyon with recruiting is just getting kids to visit Gambier.  Now certainly it is not for everyone and especially those craving a big urban environment, but for many it is magic at first sight.  Knowing that as a soccer player you can go there and also play for a top D3 program is very attractive.

Areas for improvement, as though I have some say, which I very resoundingly do not....a trip every year or at a minimum every other year to New England, Pennsylvania (beyond Pittsburgh so like Messiah, F&M, Haverford/Swat) or Jersey, or Chicago area....an overseas trip or equivalent as frequently as allowed by the NCAA....more aggressive inclusion and involvement of the alumni base, including more aggressive marketing of alumni successes so parents of potential recruits can feel even more confident and knowledgeable about where a Kenyon education can lead given its remote and sort of quirky location....and greater commitment to the idea that all players will be taken care of and supported whether they end up playing a lot or not especially in this era of these colleges costing 60-65K+ a year.  Kenyon is pretty good with financial aid and also has the advantage of some merit aid, but the latter of course only comes into play for kids at or near the top of the admissions pool.

+k

Mr.Right

Quote from: Ommadawn on November 22, 2016, 11:28:37 PM
Paul Newman (pka NCAC NE), I join Mr. Right (and others) in appreciating your insightful commentary after the "pure devastation" that you experienced on Sunday.  Knowing your allegiance beforehand, I couldn't help thinking about what being at the game was like for you while watching the webcast.  I hope that Pennebaker is correct and that your bouts of "expressive writing" (and new moniker) have served therapeutic ends! 

Despite my general impression that the wind was the true winner of the game, I thought that the match pitted two programs that are at, or near, full maturity.  Both schools have, over a similar period of time, joined the top tier of D3 programs to the extent that when they lose their impact players to graduation, they don't rebuild, they reload.  In New England at least, they compete for some of the same players in recruiting. If the past two years are any indication, Kenyon and Tufts can expect to meet again in the NCAA tournament and undoubtedly will play a memorable game when they do. 

I found one of your comments especially interesting:

Quote from: PaulNewmanLords'49 on November 20, 2016, 05:13:03 PMKenyon is not used to that, as Tufts seemed to roll out a slew of 6'2 and over players with several 6'4/6'5.   Shapiro must recruit for size....

They are the Jumbos, aren't they  ;) (although "Majumbos" might be more appropriate given the exploits of their talisman, with a big tip of the trunk to Becherano for rising to the occasion and carrying the offensive load this year).  In seriousness, however, I wonder if the size of the Tufts players is a direct reflection of the NESCAC arms (legs?) race to come up with a roster that can defend the tall attackers that Amherst seems to roll out with regularity.




This response belongs in the Nescac Thread but I will respond here. In actuality it was Williams in 2009 that started this "height" phenomenon. They started a Back 4 of LB Matt Ratajczak at 6'4, CB Conor Smith at 6'4, CB Joe Vella at 6'2 and RB Philip Vestergaard at 6'4. They were absolute beasts back there but they played on the ground and possessed the ball very well. They all were fast and skilled. That was a "nasty" Williams side that beat an extremely talented 2009 York side at York and then beat CNU to get to the NCAA Final 4 in 2009. They lost to Messiah 2-1 in a well played game(not as well played as the PK loss to Messiah in 2006) but a very well played game that they had a chance to tie up but a deserved PK was not called.Oh well...Anyway, to catch up Amherst and Midd started to get even bigger. Mind you they were still big but not fast or nearly as skilled as that Williams back 4 in 2009.  Bowdoin was actually the 2nd biggest side in 2009 and got even bigger and added 2 long throwers which propelled them to the NCAA Final 4 in 2010(which they absolutely coughed up a 1-0 lead in the Semi's to Lynchburg with 2 minutes left). That was a very dangerous Bowdoin side as they had some serious skill in midfield as well. Back to my point....Williams had massive SIZE but they still played futbol, they were not whacking everything..It was fun to watch...To catch-up Serpone got VERY BIG even up front which caused problems especially for the weaker sides in Nescac. Bates and Colby just couldn't keep up. Now every Nescac side is trying to keep up with Amherst and their physicality but man it is not the most pleasurable thing to watch. Ironically, after 2009 Williams got smaller in some areas of the field while other teams like Conn and Tufts were getting bigger to keep up. Back to 2009 though Williams Back 4 were skilled and fast but were also obviously very physical and Messiah had scouted them at York in the Elite 8. That was McCarty's 1st year and he knew Williams had a massive height advantage and they were big and fast but Messiah's flank players were even faster and Williams got stretched to much in that game. Good game though...

rudy

What is the fascination with height in Nescac soccer? Most of the best players in the history of the game are under 6 ft? It's not basketball. I happen to know that Amherst is bringing in a very talented wing player next year who is probably 5'6 to 5'7. Messiah has a good mix of size with many 5'8 and under.  I don't see a lot of tall top international players.

Jump4Joy

#614
I'm not convinced that most of the best players in the history of the game are under 6 ft. Sure, the nifty attacking midfielders and some strikers who dart around creating/finding pockets of space are the smaller guys with magical feet (Messi, Pele, Maradona, Pirlo, Robben). These legends are amazing. But most quality sides feature players that bring a mix of physicality, personality, technicality and tactical acuity. In fact, I contend that a side with 11 Messis would not fare well at all. Height is an advantage in goal, of course, with some GKs who hover at around 6 ' needing incredible ups to make up the difference. Every world-class team I can think of has tall CBs (center halfs if you're in England). Most complete teams have the option of a tall, central, hold-up striker who plays with his back to the goal during the build-up and then faces the goal to finish the crosses. Height is not an inherent evil: Ronaldo, Zlatan, Bale, Suarez, Pique.

The challenge is to require all players, no matter their size, to hone their technical skills and tactical vision. It's tempting to rely on the physical when you have the physical on your side. It's short-sighted, however. A good coach will find a system that can use the height to the team's advantage while mixing in players with other attributes that complement. Amherst under Serpone has had some tall dudes: both Sucres, Kovacs and Bull, Singer, Wirz, Bean, Orozco. And some under 6' who have left their mark: NPL, Ciambella, both Ayoamas, Lenhart, Heo, to name just a few. As noted, there's plenty of height at other NESCACs: the rising Hamilton team, Tufts, Mid, Williams. I see that Brandeis has 11 guys listed over 6'.

Come to think of it, maybe this 6' ruler is not really a great barometer for college teams in the US, where accomplished athletes have access to good nutrition and health care!