2016 NCAA Tournament

Started by Mid-Atlantic Fan, November 08, 2016, 08:46:11 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

PaulNewman

Don't really understand the need to declare who was "deserving" after games.  That's so subjective and so many things happen during a game that could change what happens after that.  Calvin easily could have been up 2-0 after 20-25 minutes today.  Then Brandeis has them under intense pressure for large parts of the 2nd half.  I think Brandeis' goal maybe should have counted.  I'm not sure I even understand the offsides call but I'm also not convinced that Vieira really got a touch on the ball.  Let's say Brandeis gets that goal.  Calvin was down in the 2nd half to Messiah.  They were 0-0 at the half with F&M, F&M goes up 1-0 and then Calvin goes up 4-1.  I agree that Calvin looked exhausted which I had not seen before, and I agree that Tufts will be very physical with Calvin as well.  The irony again is that we hear so much about how Tufts and Brandeis love to play the ball on the ground and play real soccer, but their physicality is what is shining through.  Woodhouse was phenomenal.  Jastremzski played the best game I've ever seen him play.  Tough break with Ocel getting injured very early and probably never recovering.  Vieira was a beast as usual.  Tremendous showing for Brandeis and they very easily could have advanced and would have had as agood or better chance against Tufts tomorrow as Calvin will.  That said, underestimate Calvin at your own risk.  They could have lost 1st round to a very good ONU team.  CMU got an unlucky break on a Calvin goal and then were extremely close to equalizing but Van Ryn stood on his head.  Then Messiah at Messiah, including falling behind.   Some of the these 1 goal games, OT games, games that goes to PKs could have turned on any number of forgotten plays.  Sometimes there is just a worthy survivor instead of who "deserved it more."  It's also very easy when you're on the losing side of one of these games to forget the games before when you were very fortunate to get the bounce and advance. 

Like I suggested, Brandeis easily could have won the national title.  Tufts would have had no psychological edge against them.  That said, we've got a classic final with two teams that have an aura of "we're not going to lose."  Ever since they went up 1-0 on Rowan Tufts has had that feeling of destiny.  Just amazing for a team that has not been able to win even a single game in the NESCAC tournament for at least the past 3 years, even with home field, and now it seems like they would win the next 30 games in a row if they kept playing another few months.  Calvin is now something like 46-3 over the past two years.  Beats Messiah at Messiah.  Survives a very highly motivated and Brandeis side.  Evoking a sense that they do indeed play for something larger than themselves.  We've also got two of the very best (maybe the best) coaches in D3 at understanding the psychology of their teams and creating maximum positivity.  A couple of factors to note.  Noyola for Calvin, the unsung but outstanding CB, has not played since the Messiah game.  That's a big deal.  He's not a huge kid but he plays big, and there is a hint of Tufts just being too big and physical for the Knights.  Can Vegter hold up as the one defender who can physically and athletically match up with everything Tufts will throw at them?  At any rate, we have the makings of a really great battle when you can't picture either team not winning.

lastguyoffthebench

Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 03:52:48 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:47:58 PM
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:29:05 PM
Last man foul on a breakaway. It would not have even been a yellow in any other situation, but since he was the last man, it was probably the right call. What a shame, Brandeis was absolutely dominating Calvin all second half, but just failed to finish over and over.
That would have been a professional foul YC every day of the week.

I respectfully disagree. If that foul happened in the middle of the park it would not have been a YC ANY day of the week. ESPECIALLY at the professional level.
No attempt to play the ball, grabbed the shoulder and pulled the player back. Depends on the temperature of the game - I have seen opportunities where referees have chosen not to give a card - but intentional acts like that will draw a card all day tomorrow in the EPL.

Didn't see the play but sounds tactical anyways, so YC 100% anywhere else on the pitch

firstplaceloser

Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:47:58 PM
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:29:05 PM
Last man foul on a breakaway. It would not have even been a yellow in any other situation, but since he was the last man, it was probably the right call. What a shame, Brandeis was absolutely dominating Calvin all second half, but just failed to finish over and over.
That would have been a professional foul YC every day of the week.

I respectfully disagree. If that foul happened in the middle of the park it would not have been a YC ANY day of the week. ESPECIALLY at the professional level.

that was 10000% a foul and a red card haha you can't even
argue it he was in on goal

Domino1195

Spurs' Walker takes a foot to the face - standing fully erect - lucky not to have been blinded - cut on his eyebrow. Dangerous play - no card. Not going to make Chicago or Desai feel better - but poor refereeing sickens me. Just do your job.

Watching Stark's undercut on the Brandeis player again: yellow card foul on him - could have been worse. Will not be surprised to learn the Brandeis player is concussed. Yet the foul was called against Brandeis. Hoping officiating plays no part in today's final.

KICKIN95

Quote from: Domino1195 on December 03, 2016, 11:06:29 AM
Spurs' Walker takes a foot to the face - standing fully erect - lucky not to have been blinded - cut on his eyebrow. Dangerous play - no card. Not going to make Chicago or Desai feel better - but poor refereeing sickens me. Just do your job.

Watching Stark's undercut on the Brandeis player again: yellow card foul on him - could have been worse. Will not be surprised to learn the Brandeis player is concussed. Yet the foul was called against Brandeis. Hoping officiating plays no part in today's final.
I have no dog in the fight, but I watched that play several times and the Brandeis player clearly jumped over the back of the Calvin Player.  the right call was made.
Master of all things "DuHawk"

NEsoccerfan

Quote from: firstplaceloser on December 02, 2016, 10:23:18 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:47:58 PM
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:29:05 PM
Last man foul on a breakaway. It would not have even been a yellow in any other situation, but since he was the last man, it was probably the right call. What a shame, Brandeis was absolutely dominating Calvin all second half, but just failed to finish over and over.
That would have been a professional foul YC every day of the week.

I respectfully disagree. If that foul happened in the middle of the park it would not have been a YC ANY day of the week. ESPECIALLY at the professional level.

that was 10000% a foul and a red card haha you can't even
argue it he was in on goal

I was not arguing against either of those. Check out my original post: I called it a "last-man foul" and said that the red card was "probably the right call". As a former player and current referee, my only point was that it might not have been a card - even a yellow - in a different situation. But even that is (obviously) open for interpretation.

Domino1195

Quote from: KICKIN95 on December 03, 2016, 11:09:31 AM
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 03, 2016, 11:06:29 AM
Spurs' Walker takes a foot to the face - standing fully erect - lucky not to have been blinded - cut on his eyebrow. Dangerous play - no card. Not going to make Chicago or Desai feel better - but poor refereeing sickens me. Just do your job.

Watching Stark's undercut on the Brandeis player again: yellow card foul on him - could have been worse. Will not be surprised to learn the Brandeis player is concussed. Yet the foul was called against Brandeis. Hoping officiating plays no part in today's final.
I have no dog in the fight, but I watched that play several times and the Brandeis player clearly jumped over the back of the Calvin Player.  the right call was made.

Stark backs in under the space of the Brandeis player, who has his eyes on the ball and leaps up to play it. Stark's never looks at the ball - what's his intent? This type of foul usually goes  unnoticed and missed too often. In my pregame discussion with captains I have three things I always warn against: studs-up challenges, fouling the keeper and undercutting players in the air. College keeper undercut and landing in his neck - something you don't forget.

4samuy

Looks to me that Calvin may get a couple.

Flying Weasel

Quote from: 4samuy on December 03, 2016, 02:06:16 PM
Looks to me that Calvin may get a couple.
Problem for Calvin is that yesterday they looked like getting a couple in the first half but didn't and then were outplayed (and looking tired) in the second half and fortunate not to have gone down a goal and fortunate on their goal.  How will the second half play out today for Calvin, we'll see.

d3fan1

Calvin definitely has control of the game. Tufts seems to be looking for the long ball, and physical play.

Ryan Harmanis

#685
Thoughts on yesterday's games:

Tufts 2 - St. Thomas 1

Played out about as I expected. Tufts carried more of the play in the first half, but few scoring chances for either team. Game changed dramatically after the Tufts goal. Speculative shot - a complete waste 9 times out of 10 - but the wind, the sun, and perhaps some nerves led to the GK error and a gifted 1-0 lead for Tufts. St. Thomas reacted well at the end of the 1st half and the start of the second, but you can't make those kinds of mistakes against a team that punishes them like Tufts.

St. Thomas really needed to get back to even terms, as a two-goal deficit was going to be tough to overcome. The second Tufts goal was a killer. St. Thomas did a great job to get back into the game, and on the day there wasn't much between the two teams. But that was the fourth time in five NCAA games St. Thomas fell behind, and eventually it's too much to overcome.

Calvin 1 - Brandeis 0

Game started at a frantic pace, with Calvin carrying the play through midfield. Brandeis made what I viewed as a conscious decision to play more direct and on the counter early on, and they were able to get into dangerous positions doing so. But Calvin's midfield was bossing things, and that let them control territory and create some good chances. Brandeis GK was forced to make a couple of good saves, but in the last 15 minutes of the half the game began to turn. Brandeis was finding more midfield gaps, and should have taken the lead on a beautiful counter. A great back-post run led to a delayed midfield run, and the Brandeis player took a really good first touch to leave him alone with the GK on his line. But he hit the post.

Second half, Brandeis played more on the floor, and Calvin looked tired really early. Brandeis was dominating, frankly, but you need to turn that control into goals. They did, but it was called back for offsides - more on that in a moment. Then a great break from Calvin leads to a foul just outside the 18 and a straight red for the Brandeis CB. The issue was compounded when Brandeis GK gave up a rebound and Calvin punched it in on a goalmouth scrum. Brandeis put on some final pressure and had one great shot where Van Ryn made a good save, but it was too much playing a man down.

I thought Brandeis was marginally the better side, but Calvin made enough chances that it was going to come down to who finished. The difference was Brandeis's inability to score, Calvin knocking one in, and a series of close calls:

(1) I thought the Brandeis goal probably should have stood. I'm assuming that the goalscorer was offside if the Brandeis player got a flick on it. But we (watching online) had a better angle than the linesman - who was on the far side and screened by multiple players - and I was not confident at all that it was the Brandeis player, rather than the Calvin defender (or no one at all), who touched the ball. To me, it's usually telling when no defenders think it's offsides, and no Calvin players reacted until after they saw the linesman's flag. A 50-50 call at best.

(2) The red card was "soft," but the right call. Classic swim move to pull a guy back and get on the right side of him, and in that position, with the Calvin player bearing in on goal, that's a red in most professional leagues. That's a foul that would not be a yellow unless it's to stop a counter-attack. You usually see attacking players commit it when defenders are trying to shield a ball out of bounds.

My only gripe is not at all with this official, but with D-III refereeing in general. That foul happens on a regular basis and this was one of the very few (if ever) times I've seen a red given. My personal point of reference: in 2014 OWU had breakaways in back-to-back tournament games (against Kenyon and Christopher Newport) and a defender football-tackled a player from behind. Both times the referee gave a penalty, but only a yellow card. There needs to be consistency on these calls. Brandeis was more upset, even though it was the right call, because referees refuse to make that call on a regular basis.

(3) I thought the ref could have called a foul on Calvin's goal. The GK couldn't hold the free kick, but a Calvin player came flying in for the finish, missed the ball, and ran into the Brandeis GK. That kept him from having any chance to get back to the ball. Not a blatant foul, by any means, but if you're Brandeis I think you're unlucky to see your goal called back while Calvin's goal stood.

None of these calls were wrong, by any means. They fall into the category of "breaks," and Calvin got a few more of them. Calvin's defense did a nice job bending but not breaking. I think they need to make the periods when they're on top of the game count a little more, because they were in total control for a long period in the first half but didn't create enough clear chances. They'll need to score during those periods during the game today.

EDIT: In my opinion, 100% a foul on Stark on the play early on that left Ocel shaken up. Ocel was attacking the ball, and Stark was not attempting to play it or even trying to hold off Ocel. He simply undercut him. Smaller players do this on a regular basis, and they get more calls than they should. If they're trying to shield the guy going for the ball and he goes over the top, sure, foul on him, but if they wait until the other guy jumps and then back into him, that's a foul - and a dangerous one. Not sure how much impact it truly had on the game, but that was just a bad call.

blooter442

Contrary to what many predicted, I don't think that Tufts' physicality has affected Calvin. Calvin definitely had more of the ball and more of the chances. That said, aside from one good save from point-blank range, Greenwood has not had a whole lot to do, so it remains to be seen if Calvin can cash in or if they will be stymied offensively like they were for 70+ minutes yesterday. I think Tufts will try to keep the game tight and nick a goal, because they seem more likely to get something out of nothing than does Calvin - although I could well be wrong.

The one observation that I have is that Tufts' midfield has had trouble possessing the ball. I think Zach Halliday has done a great job but I am not totally sold on the other Tufts CMs. Rojas is promising but I think he is still figuring things out - I think Tasker is Tufts' best freshman.

Having been a longtime critic of Sullivan, I am starting to see what he brings - he is not as cerebral or composed as Williams was, but he's definitely rugged and tenacious, and while I personally would rather have the former traits than the latter in my CB "enforcer" he has done a solid job for the most part.

Ryan Harmanis

A little disappointed in the first half. Both teams started well, with Tufts playing more vertical and Calvin doing a nice job through the middle. Calvin controlled the play, but didn't create much except for the Hooker shot from point-blank range where Greenwood was in great position. Thank goodness that didn't go in, as it came on a Calvin counterattack where the ref wasn't paying attention and blocked a Tufts pass right to Calvin, which led to the whole opportunity.

As FW mentioned, this played out much like yesterday's first half for Calvin. They controlled the midfield, but haven't been able to make the final ball count. They're hitting cross after cross and cutback after cutback but Tufts is doing a nice job. Calvin's wingers started to get the measure of the Tufts outside backs later on in the half. That'll be a key matchup, because they're Calvin's best route to scoring outside of a free kick.

The Tufts attacking players have been able to cause problems for Calvin's back line, but they haven't gotten the ball up there with numbers often enough. Calvin's midfield is doing a really nice job preventing the Jumbos from stringing anything through the middle.

This game is begging for a goal. Or at least I'm begging for one.

PaulNewman

IMO the Ocel-Stark play could have gone either way.  I leaned towards thinking Stark fouled but I think if you see that play 10 times at least go for Stark.  Tufts seems to be punishing Stark for it today, just clobbering him repeatedly and forcing him to the bench early, so I think the physicality has made a difference.

Last year Barnes for OWU got no card at all, not even yellow for taking out Glassman from well behind with Glassman clearly in all alone with the GK.  The ref called the foul for a PK, so even if you didn't think it was a foul the ref called it (and I have a 25 frame slo-mo that shows he cleaned out five ways to Sunday).

Nutmeg

Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on December 03, 2016, 02:31:51 PM
A little disappointed in the first half. Both teams started well, with Tufts playing more vertical and Calvin doing a nice job through the middle. Calvin controlled the play, but didn't create much except for the Hooker shot from point-blank range where Greenwood was in great position. Thank goodness that didn't go in, as it came on a Calvin counterattack where the ref wasn't paying attention and blocked a Tufts pass right to Calvin, which led to the whole opportunity.

As FW mentioned, this played out much like yesterday's first half for Calvin. They controlled the midfield, but haven't been able to make the final ball count. They're hitting cross after cross and cutback after cutback but Tufts is doing a nice job. Calvin's wingers started to get the measure of the Tufts outside backs later on in the half. That'll be a key matchup, because they're Calvin's best route to scoring outside of a free kick.

The Tufts attacking players have been able to cause problems for Calvin's back line, but they haven't gotten the ball up there with numbers often enough. Calvin's midfield is doing a really nice job preventing the Jumbos from stringing anything through the middle.

This game is begging for a goal. Or at least I'm begging for one.

Regarding style of play, this is not the same Tufts team as the last few years. They play a little differently and maybe not as pretty, but the are very gritty....