Conference Playing Styles?

[PaulNewman]

Also I'm shocked to see your comments about your son being focused on feeling disappointed at the quality of play in the immediate aftermath of a game (or even a few days later) and saying at the end of the season he didn't enjoy himself much. 

It can happen, if play is direct, when it takes away the critical role midfielders play in possession type of soccer.  I understand strategy should be the style of play to counter the opponent to win the game on that particular day.  However, if players hardly touch the ball if play is direct, then it begins to frustrate the players who are not touching the ball.  Because they feel they did not contribute to the game, win or lose.  Don't know if heat signature maps are done for college soccer but if done that can tell us how teams are playing.

College players, at least after going through the preseason and a few games, should not be surprised by their team's style of play.  If they think they aren't getting off the bench because of a style of play that doesn't highlight one's strengths then of course there could be gripes, unhappiness, quitting or eventual transfer.  I'm not talking about that.  I was responding to the poster saying his kid played a full 90 minutes and after both wins and losses has been preoccupied with the quality of play and/or focused on to what degree the play imitated first-tier European professional soccer.  Just sharing my experience that I've never seen a kid who plays 90 minutes come off the field and the immediate concern/comment has to do with "gee, that was ugly soccer."

Let me put this another way as a parent.  This was MY order of concern/interest.

* Will my kid get cut in preseason?

* Will my kid earn a roster jersey number?

* Will my kid be included in the first road trip?

* Now that my is playing will he start?

* Now that he's starting will he continue to start?

* He's loving the experience so much what is the chance that his satisfaction level will continue (and even grow) through the next 3 years?

* Once he's mostly no longer starting -- because of perceived stronger athleticism and/or valuing of that athleticism from newcomers -- will he continue to play a substantial role anyway and does he still feel like an important and valued member of the squad?

* Being thrilled at the team's success and how the group of kids now all living together in upper-class apartments feel about each other.

* Watching kid and his closest friends experience some of highest highs and lowest lows, including watching him and All American teammates uncontrollably sobbing at the very, very end knowing that they had developed together from relative mediocrity to one of the best and highest ranked teams in the nation, and now it was all over.

* Knowing that kid on balance enjoyed an incredible athletic team experience along with a superb academic experience and related success.

* Knowing that 20, 30 and 40 years from now his D3 soccer experience will be something he still treasures with gratitude.

[Clotpoll]

sokermom, i'm not aware of any ncaa program that heatmaps players. there are only a handful of teams that even bother to chart passes.

the old adage applies: people only measure what they value.

[Clotpoll]

Also I'm shocked to see your comments about your son being focused on feeling disappointed at the quality of play in the immediate aftermath of a game (or even a few days later) and saying at the end of the season he didn't enjoy himself much.  I can't imagine ANY kids that I know right after a win or loss being focused on how poor the quality of play was.  They might comment that a game was not so well played, or the conditions were poor, or the game was chippy or whatever, but most kids I know are focused on the result, what the game means for the team going forward, and perhaps how they as individuals feel about how they contributed or didn't contribute.  Never heard a kid give an analysis on the state of soccer quality in America after a game or even secretly having such thoughts.  The second thing seems like what we sometimes hear from parents justifying a kid dropping out of high school play --"Johnny loves to play a possession game with his club team, and he's decided (at 15) that he just can't stand how his high school team plays."  Never rings true to me, but in any case, if a kid is not enjoying playing D3 soccer -- for ANY reason -- why put oneself through continuing?

Who the hell are you, Mr Newman? Please play an entire game every 3-4 days for 10 weeks, then come back and tell us how much 'fun' you had. Please tell us how many tearful moments of winning and growth and learning and losing you had with a bunch of guys who are glued to you from August to November (then again in March & April)...half of whom are nothing but dead weight (yet players you think must be allowed to 'participate' as if it's some sort of u8 co-ed park soccer being played).

Tell us about the joys of year round workouts, spring futsal, team lifts attended by 1/3 of the squad...while you're trying maintain an A average, get a summer internship and catch an outside lecture or two in your field of interest.

Please also then tell me that my kid (or any number of other intelligent players) isn't smart or aware enough to comment accurately on a game he just played. Plenty of NCAA players come from not just a 'soccer background', but a CULTURE in which playing the right way- result be damned- is a matter of personal integrity and of importance far beyond results. These players played 'no results, no scorekeeping, everyone plays' soccer at the appropriate ages and are young adult players who have some idea how to pace themselves to get through an entire 90' without substitution: a skill all 18-21 year old players outside the US have.

I'd go on, but I think it likely whatever more I'd have to say would be utterly lost on someone who appears to have never played and has no clue whatsoever about any aspect of the sport. Lots of good D3 players have had the same observations and feelings my son had last year...and the common thread among the best of them is that they are absolute assassins who also love the sport, love the challenge, love the pain...and keep coming back for more. It's neither a sign of softness nor is it unrealistic to have a higher expectation of self, teammates and the sport.

[Mr.Right]

We probably could get a better idea if you reveal the team he was on

[Clotpoll]

We probably could get a better idea if you reveal the team he was on

Unless he's banking a check every Friday for playing, he remains anonymous.

I will say that he's not at all unique among current players in his experience or assessments regarding the ups and downs of NCAA soccer.

[PaulNewman]

@clotpoll, who the hell am I?  Really?  Didn't you see the info just below my name?  I'm a D3soccer.com "All American" for heaven's sakes.

That said, I am relieved.  You've arrived.  Finally.  The rest of us can now step aside and soak in your far superior expertise, and while you've already learned that many of us are indeed quite challenged, there is perhaps a small chance that a few of us may become more sophisticated and discerning soccer consumers with your assistance.  Yes, we're pedestrian, to be generous, but don't give up so quickly.  I think you would agree that changing the "culture" is no small feat and could take more than 3-4 posts.  Hang in there and no doubt a bunch of us very soon will be better connoisseurs falling asleep at our kids' games right along with you.  #patience #paceyourself

I'm impressed by how quickly you diagnosed that I am an "everybody deserves a medal" person.  Well played.  The "dead weight" was a nice touch, too.  I wouldn't have been a huge fan of my kid continuing if he wasn't playing.  As you indicated, the demands are high, and there are other lofty interests to pursue.  Missing out on a double or triple major, internships and fascinating extra advanced lectures would be a shame if you're just riding pine, and especially if your presence as "dead weight" is just annoying the REAL players and the coaches.  But here's the thing.  I never heard my kid or even the true superstars on his little D3 team talk about teammates as "dead weight."  Most of the time they actually were very disappointed when teammates got cut.  And when some did get cut, the team still embraced those guys...even kept living with them if you can fathom that.

As for the all those demands, even for the 90 minute guys, why continue if it's not fun?  I guess being "assassins" has some relevance in terms of answering that question, like high character guys will soldier on nobly and bravely, in the name of....what exactly?  And after all, we are talking about D3, even with your kid.  Why are these "assassins" bothering with D3 at all? And integrity to how the sport is supposed to be played is supposed to trump all?  Even at D3?  And the players who play in the World Cup don't value winning over style?  Which year did that change?  Which player told his coach that he was done playing for country because he just couldn't wrap his head around a few too many "long balls"?

I also never said D3 players are incapable of analyzing games in the way you suggest.  I just haven't seen that being their main concern, especially right after a match.  I'd be surprised to see a kid right after a win or loss going into an intellectualized Ian Darke mode, heading right up to the booth to wax critical and explain the details on how soccer as our founding fathers envisioned should be played.

We could also focus on content as well, like what you make of some of the most storied possession-style D3 programs also happening to be high substitution teams. 

[Clotpoll]

You're an idiot. Done with you.

[Saint of Old]

I can tell this year will be fun with the heat index already very hot!!
I will address one point "Fun".

I will say this, soccer at the college level, atleast for me, was NOT fun.

It was very very tough competition, hard work, seemingly endless difficult practices that were much more physical than games (Since guys were trying to out do each other for playing time)

The fun comes when you are in your 30s and looking back, watching old tapes and having hours long conversations about your shared experiences going to war and taking on all comers together!

I try to tell my U10 and U12 players to enjoy this now, because the higher the level you play the fun is minimal and the work load is maximized.

Would like to hear other opinions on this, but I think the fun is looking back and appreciating the fact that you turned your body into a machine and made the most of your God given ability...

The fun comes from the journey:
Not playing more than 10 minutes per game freshman/sophomore year, but becoming the top scorer and an All American by Senior year..... That's the fun...

It just cannot be appreciated until the journey is completed and one looks back

[Clotpoll]

Thanks, Saint. 100% correct. There is a long distance between fun and satisfaction in the game, and the casual US fan, player and parent cannot distinguish the difference.

[blooter442]

You're an idiot. Done with you.

All right, all right...we can all take a step back and cool off.

(I am not trying to play the morality police, just want to ensure that we don't turn a molehill of a debate into a volcanic mountain.  )

[PaulNewman]

Saint of Old, I think some of the "heat" may involve some of us whistling past each other just a bit.  I got lost somewhere between the ideas that D3 soccer is a joke and D3 soccer is super, super serious.

Don't think I introduced the word 'fun.'  At any rate, perhaps overall enjoyment is a better word.

I certainly don't want to minimize what is involved at playing (and succeeding) at a very competitive D3 level.  Many do underestimate the kind of fitness they need when they arrive, the competitiveness within teams and often thin margins between who gets to play and who doesn't, the stress of competing for spots and playing time, and the stress of the time demands amidst also very stressful academic demands.  I vaguely recall an organic chem final preceded by a couple of sleepless nights just a couple of hours before a 6 hour bus trip to go try and beat Messiah in a NCAA game. 

My point is no one is putting a gun to your head to play, especially at D3.  One's access to college isn't supposed to be dependent on whether one plays or doesn't play, and very, very few go from D3 to making a living playing soccer.  If, writ large, the experience isn't enjoyable and not rewarding, then why play?  I think that goes beyond soccer.

[SoccerFan2017]

Saint of Old, I think some of the "heat" may involve some of us whistling past each other just a bit.  I got lost somewhere between the ideas that D3 soccer is a joke and D3 soccer is super, super serious.

Don't think I introduced the word 'fun.'  At any rate, perhaps overall enjoyment is a better word.

I certainly don't want to minimize what is involved at playing (and succeeding) at a very competitive D3 level.  Many do underestimate the kind of fitness they need when they arrive, the competitiveness within teams and often thin margins between who gets to play and who doesn't, the stress of competing for spots and playing time, and the stress of the time demands amidst also very stressful academic demands.  I vaguely recall an organic chem final preceded by a couple of sleepless nights just a couple of hours before a 6 hour bus trip to go try and beat Messiah in a NCAA game. 

My point is no one is putting a gun to your head to play, especially at D3.  One's access to college isn't supposed to be dependent on whether one plays or doesn't play, and very, very few go from D3 to making a living playing soccer.  If, writ large, the experience isn't enjoyable and not rewarding, then why play?  I think that goes beyond soccer.

I think that's why you see such a high turnover in D3 soccer particularly once you get past the top 40-50 programs in the country. Kids have a distorted view that there going to get to campus and play right away, and when they realize the level of commitment and amount of work needed to earn time many drift to focusing on academics, or just enjoying college.

[Clotpoll]

Exactly. This kind of player is the 'dead weight' to which I referred. That's not to cast aspersions on them as students or as friends...but on the pitch, that's what they are. They are a drag on any good team.

[Flying Weasel]

You're an idiot. Done with you.

Wow! Name-calling. There's no need to lurk for a while and then ease in with meek comments, but couldn't there be some middle ground between that and the in-your-face, my-way-or-the-highway barrage?  Some respect, cordiality, and humility would go a long way if you want to engage the other posters here in meaningful exchanges (conversations, discussions, debate and even disagreements), but so far it's hard to tell if you really want to talk WITH us or just AT us. But assuming it's the former, I can only say that's not the way many of your posts have come across, to me at least. Rather, in short-order, numerous of your posts have come across as know-it-all and condescending, sprinkled with generalized insults, insensitive remarks and now name-calling.

It's seems like you probably will have a lot to add to the conversations on this board and I'd like to say that I am looking forward to your contributions, insights, perspectives and opinions, but I'm wary that there's going to be too much attitude, arrogance and antagonism to sift through to get to the valuable stuff you have to offer.  I hope you prove my reservations wrong and with those hopes I say "Welcome to the D3boards."

[luckylefty]

I've never seen anyone on these boards with more disdain for Divisiln 3 soccer then Clotpoll.

It comes across very bitter prentish, like his son should be playing at a super high level division 1 program and he's had to settle watching his son play Division 3.

College soccer is a mental and physical grind. Even more so today. The level is so much better then it was even 15 years ago. Organization and shape are so important (which isn't the most fun to train). With the rise in full time coaches comes the pressure to win on coaches, which in turn lands on the players. It takes a special kind of player and person to enjoy that grind, and in my experience those who embrace that and appreciate it will have real success, both as a player and well after they graduate.