2017 Season - National Perspective

Started by D3soccerwatcher, August 11, 2017, 10:25:42 PM

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futballfan20

Quote from: Falconer on November 04, 2017, 10:45:30 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 04, 2017, 10:33:48 PM
when was the last time Messiah didn't win the conference ..? his lycominng team resembles the way RUC played in 2013. press hard, getting stuck in, and work your *** off or sit the bench. this could be their year for a final 4 run. they just proved they have it. i would love to see lycoming play in the NJAC.

when it comes to reffing the ones who don't "let em play" are usually the ones who "don't get assigned games" i hear it all too often, parents can't stand seeing a high intensity physical game.

As I said the other day, Lycoming had nothing to prove before coming to Grantham tonight. They are as good this year as anyone in the country. It had occurred to me to suggest that they'd fit right in as an NJAC team, but I felt I should leave that hornet's nest untouched this time. Many here will recall the Rowan-Lyco game in 2016 as just another day in the NJAC--is this not so?

As for physical play, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, as long as it's not dirty. But, it should be called for what it is. When NBA teams would play "hack a Shaque," the fouls were called and free throws were taken. Teams knew there would be a penalty for playing that way, and they took a calculated risk. All well and good. That doesn't favor one team over another, as long as the fouls are called on both ends. In soccer, however, so much depends on what a given official will choose not to see. That's not just, IMO. Let a team decide to mug people, if they want to play that way, but let them be penalized with free kicks and (where warranted) cards of bright colors. Not to pull cards when players pull people down or knock them over, without going for the ball (something I saw at lease half a dozen times tonight), is IMO simple incompetence, if not dishonesty. If you think a team is offside, you call it. If you see a team mugging people, you call it. It's pretty simple, or at least it should be. There should be no more hesitation to call fouls and pull cards than there is to call back a play.

Lycoming plays a fast physical game regardless of who they play and that was no different tonight. To suggest a "Hack a Shaq" game or the post in the mid-Atlantic thread of targeting a certain player is, at best, making excuses for a dissapointing loss. While I will admit that the officiating was very poor this game Lycoming scored on two set pieces and played a very tough defensive game and that was why the result was what it was. Lyco's center back #23 who was snubbed of the Defensive MVP in the commonwealth  played a very tough game against Messiahs offense and put a goal away himself. Refs should not play a factor in the result of a match and there were no blatant missed calls that drastically changes the game. Unlike in the first match up in Williamsport where the ref missed two potential hand balls in the box and a Lycomings forward getting kicked in the face on a clear goal scoring opportunity. I understand opposing fan bases will always disagree on calls throughout the game. But Lycoming plays hard, not dirty and there is a big difference. Either way hopefully both teams will be playing for the next couple weeks and who knows there might be a chapter 3.

firstplaceloser

Quote from: futballfan20 on November 05, 2017, 01:39:48 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 04, 2017, 10:45:30 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 04, 2017, 10:33:48 PM
when was the last time Messiah didn't win the conference ..? his lycominng team resembles the way RUC played in 2013. press hard, getting stuck in, and work your *** off or sit the bench. this could be their year for a final 4 run. they just proved they have it. i would love to see lycoming play in the NJAC.

when it comes to reffing the ones who don't "let em play" are usually the ones who "don't get assigned games" i hear it all too often, parents can't stand seeing a high intensity physical game.

As I said the other day, Lycoming had nothing to prove before coming to Grantham tonight. They are as good this year as anyone in the country. It had occurred to me to suggest that they'd fit right in as an NJAC team, but I felt I should leave that hornet's nest untouched this time. Many here will recall the Rowan-Lyco game in 2016 as just another day in the NJAC--is this not so?

As for physical play, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, as long as it's not dirty. But, it should be called for what it is. When NBA teams would play "hack a Shaque," the fouls were called and free throws were taken. Teams knew there would be a penalty for playing that way, and they took a calculated risk. All well and good. That doesn't favor one team over another, as long as the fouls are called on both ends. In soccer, however, so much depends on what a given official will choose not to see. That's not just, IMO. Let a team decide to mug people, if they want to play that way, but let them be penalized with free kicks and (where warranted) cards of bright colors. Not to pull cards when players pull people down or knock them over, without going for the ball (something I saw at lease half a dozen times tonight), is IMO simple incompetence, if not dishonesty. If you think a team is offside, you call it. If you see a team mugging people, you call it. It's pretty simple, or at least it should be. There should be no more hesitation to call fouls and pull cards than there is to call back a play.

Lycoming plays a fast physical game regardless of who they play and that was no different tonight. To suggest a "Hack a Shaq" game or the post in the mid-Atlantic thread of targeting a certain player is, at best, making excuses for a dissapointing loss. While I will admit that the officiating was very poor this game Lycoming scored on two set pieces and played a very tough defensive game and that was why the result was what it was. Lyco's center back #23 who was snubbed of the Defensive MVP in the commonwealth  played a very tough game against Messiahs offense and put a goal away himself. Refs should not play a factor in the result of a match and there were no blatant missed calls that drastically changes the game. Unlike in the first match up in Williamsport where the ref missed two potential hand balls in the box and a Lycomings forward getting kicked in the face on a clear goal scoring opportunity. I understand opposing fan bases will always disagree on calls throughout the game. But Lycoming plays hard, not dirty and there is a big difference. Either way hopefully both teams will be playing for the next couple weeks and who knows there might be a chapter 3.

that type of play is mistaken as dirty. there are very few teams that actually go out there and try to hurt you or play dirty. we dealt with it all year

Falconer

Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 05, 2017, 08:25:48 AM
Quote from: futballfan20 on November 05, 2017, 01:39:48 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 04, 2017, 10:45:30 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 04, 2017, 10:33:48 PM
when was the last time Messiah didn’t win the conference ..? his lycominng team resembles the way RUC played in 2013. press hard, getting stuck in, and work your *** off or sit the bench. this could be their year for a final 4 run. they just proved they have it. i would love to see lycoming play in the NJAC.

when it comes to reffing the ones who don’t “let em play” are usually the ones who “don’t get assigned games” i hear it all too often, parents can’t stand seeing a high intensity physical game.

As I said the other day, Lycoming had nothing to prove before coming to Grantham tonight. They are as good this year as anyone in the country. It had occurred to me to suggest that they'd fit right in as an NJAC team, but I felt I should leave that hornet's nest untouched this time. Many here will recall the Rowan-Lyco game in 2016 as just another day in the NJAC--is this not so?

As for physical play, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, as long as it's not dirty. But, it should be called for what it is. When NBA teams would play "hack a Shaque," the fouls were called and free throws were taken. Teams knew there would be a penalty for playing that way, and they took a calculated risk. All well and good. That doesn't favor one team over another, as long as the fouls are called on both ends. In soccer, however, so much depends on what a given official will choose not to see. That's not just, IMO. Let a team decide to mug people, if they want to play that way, but let them be penalized with free kicks and (where warranted) cards of bright colors. Not to pull cards when players pull people down or knock them over, without going for the ball (something I saw at lease half a dozen times tonight), is IMO simple incompetence, if not dishonesty. If you think a team is offside, you call it. If you see a team mugging people, you call it. It's pretty simple, or at least it should be. There should be no more hesitation to call fouls and pull cards than there is to call back a play.

Lycoming plays a fast physical game regardless of who they play and that was no different tonight. To suggest a "Hack a Shaq" game or the post in the mid-Atlantic thread of targeting a certain player is, at best, making excuses for a dissapointing loss. While I will admit that the officiating was very poor this game Lycoming scored on two set pieces and played a very tough defensive game and that was why the result was what it was. Lyco's center back #23 who was snubbed of the Defensive MVP in the commonwealth  played a very tough game against Messiahs offense and put a goal away himself. Refs should not play a factor in the result of a match and there were no blatant missed calls that drastically changes the game. Unlike in the first match up in Williamsport where the ref missed two potential hand balls in the box and a Lycomings forward getting kicked in the face on a clear goal scoring opportunity. I understand opposing fan bases will always disagree on calls throughout the game. But Lycoming plays hard, not dirty and there is a big difference. Either way hopefully both teams will be playing for the next couple weeks and who knows there might be a chapter 3.

that type of play is mistaken as dirty. there are very few teams that actually go out there and try to hurt you or play dirty. we dealt with it all year

If you read my words carefully, you will see that I made no accusation that anyone on Lycoming's team last night was trying to hurt anyone. Had I concluded that from seeing the game, I would have said so in clear, unambiguous language, and I'd have identified players by number. I have seen that--probably all of us have--but I certainly didn't see it last night. Nor did I expect to. That's all for the good.

However, there were numerous cheap shots, in which people were run over, pulled down, or pushed down in ways that did not simply result from going for the ball--in several instances, the ball itself just wasn't part of the act. Many of those plays were seen by the officials and simply ignored. My anger was directed at the officiating, and properly so. A decent job of officiating can stop that stuff entirely or mostly, but such competence wasn't on display last night. That's all for the bad.

Domino1195

Last 4 years of watching DIII soccer, 52 years on the field, 9 red cads as a player (that I can remember), 30 years as a HS,college and USSF referee: Charging is an under-called foul in college soccer.  Said another way - taking the body first, taking the body while the ball is "not within playing distance" - happens.  "Within playing distance" is defined by each referee, and the higher the stakes of a particular game, the more the referee "let's them play".

Earlier this year I posted a link in another discussion - of the Tufts Calvin game.  Somewhere about 15 minutes in a Tuft's player runs through a Calvin player, thumps his chest looking over the fallen player - referee doesn't flinch.  There's your definition - on this day, with this ref.  Would I have called a foul?  Probably.

As players go through their 4 years: freshman sit on the ground, arms extended, palms facing up - staring at the ref.  Ain't getting the call buddy - welcome to college soccer.  Freshman and sophomores lead their teams in YC for dissent - still not going to get the call buddy.  Hopefully by the time they become juniors they figure it out.  Parents of country club soccer players bemoan the loss of "the beautiful game" - how their U17 and U18 teams would tika-taka their way through opponents.  To be sure there are moments when teams can play pretty.  But from here on out - don't count on it.

RetiredWarrior

Quote from: Falconer on November 05, 2017, 08:58:07 AM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 05, 2017, 08:25:48 AM
Quote from: futballfan20 on November 05, 2017, 01:39:48 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 04, 2017, 10:45:30 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 04, 2017, 10:33:48 PM
when was the last time Messiah didn't win the conference ..? his lycominng team resembles the way RUC played in 2013. press hard, getting stuck in, and work your *** off or sit the bench. this could be their year for a final 4 run. they just proved they have it. i would love to see lycoming play in the NJAC.

when it comes to reffing the ones who don't "let em play" are usually the ones who "don't get assigned games" i hear it all too often, parents can't stand seeing a high intensity physical game.

As I said the other day, Lycoming had nothing to prove before coming to Grantham tonight. They are as good this year as anyone in the country. It had occurred to me to suggest that they'd fit right in as an NJAC team, but I felt I should leave that hornet's nest untouched this time. Many here will recall the Rowan-Lyco game in 2016 as just another day in the NJAC--is this not so?

As for physical play, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, as long as it's not dirty. But, it should be called for what it is. When NBA teams would play "hack a Shaque," the fouls were called and free throws were taken. Teams knew there would be a penalty for playing that way, and they took a calculated risk. All well and good. That doesn't favor one team over another, as long as the fouls are called on both ends. In soccer, however, so much depends on what a given official will choose not to see. That's not just, IMO. Let a team decide to mug people, if they want to play that way, but let them be penalized with free kicks and (where warranted) cards of bright colors. Not to pull cards when players pull people down or knock them over, without going for the ball (something I saw at lease half a dozen times tonight), is IMO simple incompetence, if not dishonesty. If you think a team is offside, you call it. If you see a team mugging people, you call it. It's pretty simple, or at least it should be. There should be no more hesitation to call fouls and pull cards than there is to call back a play.

Lycoming plays a fast physical game regardless of who they play and that was no different tonight. To suggest a "Hack a Shaq" game or the post in the mid-Atlantic thread of targeting a certain player is, at best, making excuses for a dissapointing loss. While I will admit that the officiating was very poor this game Lycoming scored on two set pieces and played a very tough defensive game and that was why the result was what it was. Lyco's center back #23 who was snubbed of the Defensive MVP in the commonwealth  played a very tough game against Messiahs offense and put a goal away himself. Refs should not play a factor in the result of a match and there were no blatant missed calls that drastically changes the game. Unlike in the first match up in Williamsport where the ref missed two potential hand balls in the box and a Lycomings forward getting kicked in the face on a clear goal scoring opportunity. I understand opposing fan bases will always disagree on calls throughout the game. But Lycoming plays hard, not dirty and there is a big difference. Either way hopefully both teams will be playing for the next couple weeks and who knows there might be a chapter 3.

that type of play is mistaken as dirty. there are very few teams that actually go out there and try to hurt you or play dirty. we dealt with it all year

If you read my words carefully, you will see that I made no accusation that anyone on Lycoming's team last night was trying to hurt anyone. Had I concluded that from seeing the game, I would have said so in clear, unambiguous language, and I'd have identified players by number. I have seen that--probably all of us have--but I certainly didn't see it last night. Nor did I expect to. That's all for the good.

However, there were numerous cheap shots, in which people were run over, pulled down, or pushed down in ways that did not simply result from going for the ball--in several instances, the ball itself just wasn't part of the act. Many of those plays were seen by the officials and simply ignored. My anger was directed at the officiating, and properly so. A decent job of officiating can stop that stuff entirely or mostly, but such competence wasn't on display last night. That's all for the bad.

I don't want to comment on the officiating too much because it is hard to say from a biased perspective. But I do want to point out on play in the first half, if I believe correctly. It was in the middle of the field on Lycoming's half and one of the Messiah players went two feet, studs up, straight through one of the Lycoming players. It is not the actual act that got under my skin perhaps because Lycoming admittedly had some hard slide tackles as well... but the fact that the ref didn't give clear yellow, and on a different day a possible red. The ref also proceeded to joke and laugh and then fist bump the Messiah player. Through the own admittance of the Messiah commentators it was a very unprofessional passage of play. I didn't even think much of it until the Messiah commentators pointed it out, and fair play to them for being unbiased for that one play.

My point being there were uncalled plays both ways. Yes, Lycoming is very physical and isn't afraid to take a card... but it is never out of intent to hurt another player. I can promise you that and to say that is a unfair and unknowledgeable because no one knows these kids well enough to make that kind of strong statement. 

They went into Grantham and played their game. They didn't allow Messiah to get into a rhythm and it was the key to their victory. On the point that they sat in after the first 2 goals... DUH!!!! That's how they play! Defend and press un-relentlessly, get a goal, defend some more and wait for the opponent to expose themselves trying to go forward, and score more on their deadly counter. They are not concerned with possession or making 1,000 passes, they care about WINNING.

Congrats to Lycoming! Can't wait to possibly see this as a rematch in a final 4 or elite 8 game!

firstplaceloser

Quote from: Falconer on November 05, 2017, 08:58:07 AM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 05, 2017, 08:25:48 AM
Quote from: futballfan20 on November 05, 2017, 01:39:48 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 04, 2017, 10:45:30 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 04, 2017, 10:33:48 PM
when was the last time Messiah didn't win the conference ..? his lycominng team resembles the way RUC played in 2013. press hard, getting stuck in, and work your *** off or sit the bench. this could be their year for a final 4 run. they just proved they have it. i would love to see lycoming play in the NJAC.

when it comes to reffing the ones who don't "let em play" are usually the ones who "don't get assigned games" i hear it all too often, parents can't stand seeing a high intensity physical game.

As I said the other day, Lycoming had nothing to prove before coming to Grantham tonight. They are as good this year as anyone in the country. It had occurred to me to suggest that they'd fit right in as an NJAC team, but I felt I should leave that hornet's nest untouched this time. Many here will recall the Rowan-Lyco game in 2016 as just another day in the NJAC--is this not so?

As for physical play, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, as long as it's not dirty. But, it should be called for what it is. When NBA teams would play "hack a Shaque," the fouls were called and free throws were taken. Teams knew there would be a penalty for playing that way, and they took a calculated risk. All well and good. That doesn't favor one team over another, as long as the fouls are called on both ends. In soccer, however, so much depends on what a given official will choose not to see. That's not just, IMO. Let a team decide to mug people, if they want to play that way, but let them be penalized with free kicks and (where warranted) cards of bright colors. Not to pull cards when players pull people down or knock them over, without going for the ball (something I saw at lease half a dozen times tonight), is IMO simple incompetence, if not dishonesty. If you think a team is offside, you call it. If you see a team mugging people, you call it. It's pretty simple, or at least it should be. There should be no more hesitation to call fouls and pull cards than there is to call back a play.

Lycoming plays a fast physical game regardless of who they play and that was no different tonight. To suggest a "Hack a Shaq" game or the post in the mid-Atlantic thread of targeting a certain player is, at best, making excuses for a dissapointing loss. While I will admit that the officiating was very poor this game Lycoming scored on two set pieces and played a very tough defensive game and that was why the result was what it was. Lyco's center back #23 who was snubbed of the Defensive MVP in the commonwealth  played a very tough game against Messiahs offense and put a goal away himself. Refs should not play a factor in the result of a match and there were no blatant missed calls that drastically changes the game. Unlike in the first match up in Williamsport where the ref missed two potential hand balls in the box and a Lycomings forward getting kicked in the face on a clear goal scoring opportunity. I understand opposing fan bases will always disagree on calls throughout the game. But Lycoming plays hard, not dirty and there is a big difference. Either way hopefully both teams will be playing for the next couple weeks and who knows there might be a chapter 3.

that type of play is mistaken as dirty. there are very few teams that actually go out there and try to hurt you or play dirty. we dealt with it all year

If you read my words carefully, you will see that I made no accusation that anyone on Lycoming's team last night was trying to hurt anyone. Had I concluded that from seeing the game, I would have said so in clear, unambiguous language, and I'd have identified players by number. I have seen that--probably all of us have--but I certainly didn't see it last night. Nor did I expect to. That's all for the good.

However, there were numerous cheap shots, in which people were run over, pulled down, or pushed down in ways that did not simply result from going for the ball--in several instances, the ball itself just wasn't part of the act. Many of those plays were seen by the officials and simply ignored. My anger was directed at the officiating, and properly so. A decent job of officiating can stop that stuff entirely or mostly, but such competence wasn't on display last night. That's all for the bad.

i was actually agreeing with you as well... lol just saying people view hard physical play as "dirty"

firstplaceloser

#411
probably should've made myself s little more clear. i was reffing state cup finals all day so wasnt around much.

IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM was i saying that Lycoming plays "dirty or cheap" i was not there so i can't even comment on the officiating. what i meant was that some people see hard pressing and hard tackles as "dirty." You could even say most NJAC schools play that way but like i said there are very few kids who play the game to go out and actually hurt people. saw it with umass boston that one year in the NCAAs.

going back and reading what i said i did not infer that Lycoming was dirty. like at all .. not quite sure how you came to that conclusion but i apologize anyway.

Ron Boerger

A much better effort from Trinity (TX) who avenge their only defeat of the season in the SCAC championship final, 4-0 over the University of Dallas (13-4-2) on the Crusaders' home field behind a strong effort from backup keeper McCaleb Taylor (6 saves).   Trinity (20-1) should host ASC champion Mary Hardin-Baylor (15-2-1) in another Tiger-Crusader battle.   The teams played earlier in the season with Trinity coming away with a 2-0 victory in the season opener for both squads. 

Gregory Sager

Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 05, 2017, 04:14:17 PM
going back and reading what i said i did not infer that Lycoming was dirty. like at all .. not quite sure how you came to that conclusion but i apologize anyway.

"Imply", not "infer". ;)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Hopkins92

Quote from: Domino1195 on November 05, 2017, 10:41:23 AM
Last 4 years of watching DIII soccer, 52 years on the field, 9 red cads as a player (that I can remember), 30 years as a HS,college and USSF referee: Charging is an under-called foul in college soccer.  Said another way - taking the body first, taking the body while the ball is "not within playing distance" - happens.  "Within playing distance" is defined by each referee, and the higher the stakes of a particular game, the more the referee "let's them play".

Earlier this year I posted a link in another discussion - of the Tufts Calvin game.  Somewhere about 15 minutes in a Tuft's player runs through a Calvin player, thumps his chest looking over the fallen player - referee doesn't flinch.  There's your definition - on this day, with this ref.  Would I have called a foul?  Probably.

As players go through their 4 years: freshman sit on the ground, arms extended, palms facing up - staring at the ref.  Ain't getting the call buddy - welcome to college soccer.  Freshman and sophomores lead their teams in YC for dissent - still not going to get the call buddy.  Hopefully by the time they become juniors they figure it out.  Parents of country club soccer players bemoan the loss of "the beautiful game" - how their U17 and U18 teams would tika-taka their way through opponents.  To be sure there are moments when teams can play pretty.  But from here on out - don't count on it.

I'm just going to say there's some problems with US soccer and the idea that trucking guys all over the field is "Big Boy" soccer is problematic. I have a similar resume. I had one red card. Never came close as a coach. Refs need to control the game and all too often they let things devolve into who is willing to push the limits of "dirty." That's not about the beautiful game, it's calling the game somewhere near what the rules call for.

Domino1195


Domino1195

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 05, 2017, 06:34:27 PM
Quote from: Domino1195 on November 05, 2017, 10:41:23 AM
Last 4 years of watching DIII soccer, 52 years on the field, 9 red cads as a player (that I can remember), 30 years as a HS,college and USSF referee: Charging is an under-called foul in college soccer.  Said another way - taking the body first, taking the body while the ball is "not within playing distance" - happens.  "Within playing distance" is defined by each referee, and the higher the stakes of a particular game, the more the referee "let's them play".

Earlier this year I posted a link in another discussion - of the Tufts Calvin game.  Somewhere about 15 minutes in a Tuft's player runs through a Calvin player, thumps his chest looking over the fallen player - referee doesn't flinch.  There's your definition - on this day, with this ref.  Would I have called a foul?  Probably.

As players go through their 4 years: freshman sit on the ground, arms extended, palms facing up - staring at the ref.  Ain't getting the call buddy - welcome to college soccer.  Freshman and sophomores lead their teams in YC for dissent - still not going to get the call buddy.  Hopefully by the time they become juniors they figure it out.  Parents of country club soccer players bemoan the loss of "the beautiful game" - how their U17 and U18 teams would tika-taka their way through opponents.  To be sure there are moments when teams can play pretty.  But from here on out - don't count on it.

I'm just going to say there's some problems with US soccer and the idea that trucking guys all over the field is "Big Boy" soccer is problematic. I have a similar resume. I had one red card. Never came close as a coach. Refs need to control the game and all too often they let things devolve into who is willing to push the limits of "dirty." That's not about the beautiful game, it's calling the game somewhere near what the rules call for.

Where does it start - with officials calling the muggings on corner kicks or the coaches who teach their players to do it? The coaching pedagogy has embraced the violence - the Thesis of the beautiful game has been challenged by the Antithesis of coaching - do what you need to win. The Synthesis is what we have today. Spain - tika-taka: the player with the most RC in domestic league play? Sergio Ramos - 19 last time I looked.

I chose refereeing versus coaching after my playing days were done because we need(still do) more former players to become refs. I quit college refereeing in my prime - 1992 at age 35 : disgusted with coaches and equally at the referee associations, dominated by guys who never played and had ZERO feel for the game. One guy in central Ohio had a handicapped parking sticker and still does centers in HS district finals!

One person cannot correct the evolution (devolution) of The Game. I do what I can game by game - but competitive coaches willing to look the other way and condone physicality are the problem. And there are more of them than those who want the violence to stop.

PaulNewman

While we await the formal D3 analysis, here's my take, and I'm surprised because just yesterday I thought there was little room out there for Pool C's.

Locks and virtual locks IMO -- Amherst, Brandeis, Springfield, Midd, Bowdoin.....Messiah, Hopkins....Cortland, UR, Buff St....Rowan, W&L....JCU, Kenyon....

That's 14....

Now come teams with lots of losses, high SOS and or high number of ranked wins, and, IMO, tough to separate....

Dickinson, Gettysburg, Haverford, Conn Coll, Emory, CMU, Capital....and then ONU, Luther...and maybe Colorado Coll or Tex-Tyler...

Anyway, 5 open slots for those teams remaining means there will be surprises.  Frankly, Capital looks surprisingly good for one of those. Strong SOS and 4 ranked wins and 5 wins if OWU ends up ranked.  Compare to Dickinson and Emory for example.

Will be interesting, as always.

PaulNewman

Quote from: PaulNewman on November 05, 2017, 11:27:00 PM
While we await the formal D3 analysis, here's my take, and I'm surprised because just yesterday I thought there was little room out there for Pool C's.

Locks and virtual locks IMO -- Amherst, Brandeis, Springfield, Midd, Bowdoin.....Messiah, Hopkins....Cortland, UR, Buff St....Rowan, W&L....JCU, Kenyon....

That's 14....

Now come teams with lots of losses, high SOS and or high number of ranked wins, and, IMO, tough to separate....

Dickinson, Gettysburg, Haverford, Conn Coll, Emory, CMU, Capital....and then ONU, Luther...and maybe Colorado Coll or Tex-Tyler...

Anyway, 5 open slots for those teams remaining means there will be surprises.  Frankly, Capital looks surprisingly good for one of those. Strong SOS and 4 ranked wins and 5 wins if OWU ends up ranked.  Compare to Dickinson and Emory for example.

Will be interesting, as always.

I probably should have included St Norbert and CNU for the on the bubble although I think they are on the wrong side, along with ONU, Luther, and the West teams (although Mr.Right is right that they may throw in an extra West squad for balance and partly on the theory of less opportunities for ranked wins). I think the 5 chosen from 15 to 19 should come from those first 7 teams listed on the bubble.

Mid-Atlantic Fan

Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 04, 2017, 09:35:17 PM
DOWN GOES MESSIAH!

Ah Selection Monday is upon us! Maybe the only good Monday of the year  ;D

Now that tensions have died down and I was able to digest the gravity of the game let me add my opinion on to what we witnessed Saturday night in Grantham. Unbelievable game by two of the very best in the nation. That was as good as any Division 1 soccer game I have watched this year. The Warriors came out flying with intensity that Messiah could not match and it showed with 2 goals in less than 20 minutes. The stat line favored the Warriors through the first 25 minutes, out-shooting Messiah 8-2 and gaining 2-0 advantage on the scoreboard! When was the last time that happened to a Messiah team let alone on their home surface. For the last 15 minutes Messiah finally started to settle in but this may be because of the mass subbing that the Warriors were able to do towards the end of the half. Once again Lycoming's depth was a big advantage over Messiah's small bench.

Onto the second half! Messiah came out gunning as expected and started to push for that first and pivotal goal, but Lycoming answered every charge they threw at them. The 2 CB's for Lycoming were incredible and I don't know if I have seen a duo that good in the back this year. The first time around they were clearly solid players and defenders but they stood out to me during this game. With that being said, the GK for Lycoming also made some crucial saves in the second half after not being challenged once in the first half. I recall him making multiple diving saves as the pressure mounted and he gobbled up everything that came his way. In the 88th minute the Falcons finally got on the board and gave us all an exciting final 2 minutes of the game, but Lycoming closed it out and stood victorious while earning the AQ.

WHAT A GAME!!!!

I see many different posts about the officiating and weather. Keep in mind both teams had to play in the same conditions with the same officials. I actually thought the official did a nice job in the sense that he was consistent. Someone in this thread earlier stated that if he or she calls X a foul and not Y in the first 15 minutes then you know how the game is going to be called and have to adapt to that. Messiah did not adapt well to that style of officiating, which was letting the teams play. I thought he did a good job with keeping the flow of the game going which should have actually benefited the Falcons offense. As for the rain it clearly affected Messiah and not in a good way. But they were not the only team playing on a slick muddy surface so it's hard to blame anything on the rain.

Why did Messiah not throw numbers forward more towards the end of the game? I am sure they were concerned with Lycoming's ability to counter but they were down 2 goals!!! At that point, in my opinion, it's all or nothing. I was disappointed to see Messiah's lack of urgency down the stretch to get back in this game. Or was it Lycoming's ability to shut down the Messiah offense that it just seems like they weren't urgent enough? Regardless, the goal in the final 2 minutes was simply a consolation. All in all Lycoming out played Messiah for 90 minutes and thoroughly earned this victory. I thought it was a magnificent match that had a little bit of everything for the spectators. I would have to say this was the best game I have watched so far this season. And lastly, I feel that both of these teams have the chance to go far in the NCAA tournament. For the sake of the region, I hope one of them wins it all!  :)