2017 Season - National Perspective

[blooter442]

I am sorry but I really think Chicago got screwed. They should be sitting right where North Park is and North Park should be where Chicago is. The only reason they are not is because North Park beat them 1-0 about 3 weeks ago. I happened to catch the 2nd Half of that game and Chicago was the better side. I mean I just do not understand how North Park jumped Chicago in the Final ranking without either team losing. Chicago has a significant SOS advantage and RvR advantage. It doesn't make much sense except for 1 game that happened 3 weeks ago that jumped North Park over Chicago this week. Also, the North Park pod looks significantly weaker than any other pod by a long shot.

I'm in agreement, but I think this will be a good test for Chicago in that they have (less) to lose than last year being on the road. They had what seemed to be a cakewalk to the Final 4 last year and, bad luck against Redlands or not, I still felt they should have won that game. Following that failure, there will be a lot of doubters this year, but the Maroons don't have the same kind of pressure they faced last year being No. 1 and undefeated going into mid-November. I think -- as a result -- Chicago plays with a chip on its shoulder and maybe gets over the hump, although Calvin and North Park would certainly be daunting opponents at any time, not to mention this late in the game (no pun intended).

[PaulNewman]

Anybody have a read of what D3 team Jonny "Utes" Utah follows? Or, for that matter, robertgoulet?

[Caz Bombers]

Anybody have a read of what D3 team Jonny "Utes" Utah follows? Or, for that matter, robertgoulet?

have never seen a soccer-related post from Jonny, but the answer to the first half of your question is Ithaca.

[PaulNewman]

Anybody have a read of what D3 team Jonny "Utes" Utah follows? Or, for that matter, robertgoulet?

have never seen a soccer-related post from Jonny, but the answer to the first half of your question is Ithaca.

Thanks!  Must be a good story there!

[Gregory Sager]

I am sorry but I really think Chicago got screwed. They should be sitting right where North Park is and North Park should be where Chicago is. The only reason they are not is because North Park beat them 1-0 about 3 weeks ago. I happened to catch the 2nd Half of that game and Chicago was the better side. I mean I just do not understand how North Park jumped Chicago in the Final ranking without either team losing. Chicago has a significant SOS advantage and RvR advantage. It doesn't make much sense except for 1 game that happened 3 weeks ago that jumped North Park over Chicago this week.

Not true.

First of all, by your own admission you only watched the second half. NPU dominated play in the first half, outshooting the Maroons 5-1 and getting the only shot on frame of the half.

Second, the committee had already jumped North Park ahead of Chicago after the Vikings beat the Maroons (Oct. 25 ranking) and then jumped Chicago right back ahead of North Park the following week (Nov. 1 ranking), so this was old news.

Third, the committee made a mistake in forming the previous week's ranking in which it had jumped Chicago ahead of North Park, assigning an RvR win over Aurora that shouldn't have been credited, because Aurora hadn't been ranked the week before -- and (properly) not doing the same for NPU, which had also beaten Aurora. Hey, it happens sometimes.

Fourth, and most importantly, you're only looking at two criteria, SOS (which Chicago clearly dominated) and RvR (in which Chicago does not have a significant advantage; in fact, if you're going by RvR winning percentage, Chicago doesn't have any advantage at all, since the Maroons were 7-2-0 RvR, and the Vikings were 4-0-0 RvR). There are three other primary criteria involved in the process. One is head-to-head, which is in NPU's column. Another is win-loss % against D3 opponents, and NPU wins that criterion, .917 to .889. Finally, there's record vs. D3 common opponents, which favors Chicago, 8-0 to 8-1.

In other words, two criteria clearly favor North Park, and two clearly favor Chicago. I suspect that the committee might have the leeway to interpret the RvR criterion either cumulatively or by winning percentage, as that's the case for the D3 sport that I follow most closely, men's basketball, but I don't know for sure that that's the case. If it's cumulative, Chicago takes it by dint of having played nine regionally-ranked opponents to North Park's four. But if it's winning percentage, then NPU takes the criterion, 1.000 to .777. If the committee doesn't have that leeway, then it's automatically going to go by RvR winning percentage. Regardless, that's how the committee went, anyway, with NPU owning the edge in three of the five criteria. Also, if the committee added any extra weight to one or other of the criteria, it was clearly head-to-head -- particularly since North Park beat Chicago on the home pitch of the Maroons.

[PaulNewman]

As I ponder Mr. Sager's 19,000+ posts and Hall of Fame status, I realize that I almost certainly will not earn a gold jacket.

That said, the tournament is a blast, and really a blast if your team is in the field.  Best time of the year.....until....it's not.

[Gregory Sager]

As I ponder Mr. Sager's 19,000+ posts and Hall of Fame status, I realize that I almost certainly will not earn a gold jacket.

That's OK. You make a much better salad dressing than I ever could.

[PaulNewman]

As I ponder Mr. Sager's 19,000+ posts and Hall of Fame status, I realize that I almost certainly will not earn a gold jacket.

That's OK. You make a much better salad dressing than I ever could.

Haha, well-played.  +k...as though you need +k's.

And the secret to the salad dressing is in the subcontracting.

[blue_jays]

I am sorry but I really think Chicago got screwed. They should be sitting right where North Park is and North Park should be where Chicago is. The only reason they are not is because North Park beat them 1-0 about 3 weeks ago. I happened to catch the 2nd Half of that game and Chicago was the better side. I mean I just do not understand how North Park jumped Chicago in the Final ranking without either team losing. Chicago has a significant SOS advantage and RvR advantage. It doesn't make much sense except for 1 game that happened 3 weeks ago that jumped North Park over Chicago this week.

Not true.

First of all, by your own admission you only watched the second half. NPU dominated play in the first half, outshooting the Maroons 5-1 and getting the only shot on frame of the half.

Second, the committee had already jumped North Park ahead of Chicago after the Vikings beat the Maroons (Oct. 25 ranking) and then jumped Chicago right back ahead of North Park the following week (Nov. 1 ranking), so this was old news.

Third, the committee made a mistake in forming the previous week's ranking in which it had jumped Chicago ahead of North Park, assigning an RvR win over Aurora that shouldn't have been credited, because Aurora hadn't been ranked the week before -- and (properly) not doing the same for NPU, which had also beaten Aurora. Hey, it happens sometimes.

Fourth, and most importantly, you're only looking at two criteria, SOS (which Chicago clearly dominated) and RvR (in which Chicago does not have a significant advantage; in fact, if you're going by RvR winning percentage, Chicago doesn't have any advantage at all, since the Maroons were 7-2-0 RvR, and the Vikings were 4-0-0 RvR). There are three other primary criteria involved in the process. One is head-to-head, which is in NPU's column. Another is win-loss % against D3 opponents, and NPU wins that criterion, .917 to .889. Finally, there's record vs. D3 common opponents, which favors Chicago, 8-0 to 8-1.

In other words, two criteria clearly favor North Park, and two clearly favor Chicago. I suspect that the committee might have the leeway to interpret the RvR criterion either cumulatively or by winning percentage, as that's the case for the D3 sport that I follow most closely, men's basketball, but I don't know for sure that that's the case. If it's cumulative, Chicago takes it by dint of having played nine regionally-ranked opponents to North Park's four. But if it's winning percentage, then NPU takes the criterion, 1.000 to .777. If the committee doesn't have that leeway, then it's automatically going to go by RvR winning percentage. Regardless, that's how the committee went, anyway, with NPU owning the edge in three of the five criteria. Also, if the committee added any extra weight to one or other of the criteria, it was clearly head-to-head -- particularly since North Park beat Chicago on the home pitch of the Maroons.

North Park should thank their lucky stars for the cake walk they got, anything less than Elite 8 will be a big disappointment. Kenyon will probably be there to meet them, which should prove a tasty match-up. We'll see if NPU's skills win out over any potential nerves. On paper, this is probably NPU's most talented team and this is a draw they have to take advantage of.
I thought the big RR results and SOS advantage would favor Chicago ultimately in the bracket over NPU, but those are the breaks.
The Chicago-JCU-Calvin-OWU sectional draw is rough, gonna be some wars on the pitch. I still think Calvin is fave to win national title this year, but if you're gonna trip them up, gotta do it early in the tournament. They seem to gain steam and confidence with each passing round.
As the forwards go, so goes Chicago. You give Lopez any space or opportunity for headers, he's gonna score. Koh's straight-line speed bends entire defenses, and on turf he's even scarier.

[Shooter McGavin]

When do the final NCAA Regional Rankings get released to the public? There were no real snubs but one thing that caught my eye was Texas Tyler getting in which had to be for geographic reasons. Why not give Trinity the 1st round bye and omit Texas Tyler and put a different, more deserving team in one of the other quads? Don't think anyone would have complained about that.

[Shooter McGavin]

The final regular season poll until the post-season poll on December 5th.

November 7, 2017
D3soccer.com Men's Top 25, Week 10
Through games of Sunday, November 5, 2017

#   School (1st Pl. Votes)   Record   Pts.   Prev.
1   Calvin (13)   19-0-1   979   2
2   Trinity (Texas) (4)   20-1-0   909   3
3   Tufts (1)   15-1-2   891   4
4   Lycoming   18-2-0   888   5
5   Messiah   18-2-0   859   1
6   St. Thomas   19-1-0   760   7
7   Chicago   16-2-0   749   8
8   Rutgers-Newark   20-2-0   669   12
9   Oneonta State   15-1-2   667   11
10   Drew (1)   19-0-1   598   13
11   Johns Hopkins   14-1-3   579   9
12   North Park   17-1-1   549   14
13   Cortland State   15-3-0   539   6
14   Lynchburg   17-1-2   509   16
15   Rowan   17-3-1   503   10
16   John Carroll   15-2-2   360   15
17   St. Joseph's (Me.)   18-0-1   324   19
18   Amherst   11-3-2   313   18
19   Kenyon   15-2-3   282   17
20   Brandeis   13-4-0   273   21
21   Otterbein   17-2-0   240   23
22   Oglethorpe   16-2-1   231   24
23   Springfield   14-1-2   167   22
24   Transylvania   17-1-0   141   25
25   Chris. Newport   14-3-1   55   20
Dropped out: none

Receiving Votes: Buffalo State 29, Mary Washington 29, Loras 21, Washington and Lee 13, Rochester 11, Mary Hardin-Baylor 11, Randolph-Macon 8, Johnson and Wales 6, Cal Lutheran 4, Franklin and Marshall 2, Willamette 2

The D3soccer.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of coaches, Sports Information Directors and D3soccer.com staff, and is published weekly.

[PaulNewman]

Two issues with the rankings.

I am far from a Tufts fan, despite the impressions of some, but I can work through my feelings to give them their due, and I can't imagine any argument where they aren't the #1 team in the country in a poll.

And how can Calvin be #1 and not even be able to host a friggin pod?  I know the technical answer but that answer just doesn't make any sense. 

In any case, especially with Messiah losing at home to Lycoming, IMO Tufts and Calvin are #1 and #2 in the country. 

[Ron Boerger]

When do the final NCAA Regional Rankings get released to the public? There were no real snubs but one thing that caught my eye was Texas Tyler getting in which had to be for geographic reasons. Why not give Trinity the 1st round bye and omit Texas Tyler and put a different, more deserving team in one of the other quads? Don't think anyone would have complained about that.

The NCAA traditionally does not release the set of regional rankings used for playoff selection. 

[Flying Weasel]

I am far from a Tufts fan, despite the impressions of some, but I can work through my feelings to give them their due, and I can't imagine any argument where they aren't the #1 team in the country in a poll.

So all opinions on how good Calvin is and how good Tufts is are wrong if they don't find Tufts to be the best and Calvin to be second best?

And how can Calvin be #1 and not even be able to host a friggin pod?  I know the technical answer but that answer just doesn't make any sense. 

Well, wouldn't the answer be (not sure if it's technical or not) that D3soccer.com is not the NCAA men's soccer committee.  Two different entities, with different criteria, different opinions and assessments.    If D3soccer.com was the organizer of the tournament, Calvin would be hosting a 1st/2nd Round pod. 

I think that answer makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is questioning the lack of compatibility and correspondence between (a) the D3soccer.com rankings and (b) the NCAA men's soccer committee's tournament bracketing.  There is no reason, intention, or expectation for two things coming from two separate and independent entities to be completely compatible and congruent. Should the NCAA ignore their own rankings and consult the D3soccer.com rankings to set brackets, seeding, and hosting for their tournament?

[Shooter McGavin]

When do the final NCAA Regional Rankings get released to the public? There were no real snubs but one thing that caught my eye was Texas Tyler getting in which had to be for geographic reasons. Why not give Trinity the 1st round bye and omit Texas Tyler and put a different, more deserving team in one of the other quads? Don't think anyone would have complained about that.

The NCAA traditionally does not release the set of regional rankings used for playoff selection.

They released this information last year and are suppose to continue to do so to provide clarity on selections. The data sheets are released on the NCAA website but the Final Regional Rankings have not been updated from the 3rd rankings yet.