Mid-Atlantic Region

[Flying Weasel]

Catholic actually would have been better off not making the landmark playoffs like Drew instead of getting a loss against Scranton.  Of course, making the playoffs and winning the conference is the goal but in hindsight, that semifinal loss might have knocked them out of an at-large

This isn't the first time this has been observed over the years.  It's one of the ironies that the process/criteria used allows. Allowing a little more subjectivity/flexibity into the process could compensate for this.  On the other hand, this is only an issue for bubble teams, and as a bubble team you haven't taken care of business and haven't earned the right to sleep easy heading into Selection Day.

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

Catholic actually would have been better off not making the landmark playoffs like Drew instead of getting a loss against Scranton.  Of course, making the playoffs and winning the conference is the goal but in hindsight, that semifinal loss might have knocked them out of an at-large

This isn't the first time this has been observed over the years.  It's one of the ironies that the process/criteria used allows. Allowing a little more subjectivity/flexibity into the process could compensate for this.  On the other hand, this is only an issue for bubble teams, and as a bubble team you haven't taken care of business and haven't earned the right to sleep easy heading into Selection Day.

Yes and Yes 

[Hopkins92]

Landmark get two in with Catholic and Scranton
Centennial get Muhles, Hop, Dips

[Shooter McGavin]

Landmark get two in with Catholic and E'town
Centennial get Muhles, Hop, Dips

Montclair gets left out 

[Hopkins92]

Landmark get two in with Catholic and E'town
Centennial get Muhles, Hop, Dips

Montclair gets left out 

I screwed up my post, Scranton not E-town.

And I can't believe Montclair didn't get a bid. That's crazy.

[Hopkins92]

I know this is WAY late, given all the hub-bub over the NCAA selections, but I want to go back and point something out... Because it's still bothering me.

Just to quickly reset, Hopkins and Muhlenberg played to a 0-0 tie and went to PKs. As they did against Dickinson, they swapped out their starting GK for a very large dude, who is obviously their "PK specialist." Now, at the collegiate level, I don't know if that means anything other than "the bigger dude" because I highly doubt they have enough film to study tendencies. And maybe this guy is studying all the rostered players who make the field and noting what kind of style they employ (power players usually go a certain direction, finesse players usually do the opposite... I'm giving away secrets!) Maybe.

I suspect it's mainly down to "the bigger guy."

And, I don't want to be overly negative, and apologies if someone close to him lurks, but... Bigger guy didn't move in the "correct" direction once in the kicks on Sunday. That's mostly down to being unlucky, but...

Alex Morgret is (as I predicted) a First Team All Conference goalie. And that's saying something, because this conference has some really good keepers. He is a grad transfer student from Penn State, prior to that he played significant minutes and was named rookie of the year for D1 St Francis. Club soccer pedigree is outstanding. In other words, probably one of the best goalies in D3 soccer, subjectively (not in stats, but they're still quite good.)

Why are we swapping this guy out... For any reason? Ever?

Don't do that. A bigger goalie doesn't mean a better goalie. For one thing, they are easier to beat low corner. And they, typically, take a beat (tiny) longer to get that big frame moving. These are not benefits in a PK situation. This isn't hockey, or box lacrosse, where a dude can just park his Wide Load sign in goal and hope for the best.

I really don't like this logic in soccer. 

[futbolfan]

Ironically, I witnessed Williams do the opposite against Conn Coll in the NESCAC semis. They went to PKs, and replaced 6'5 GK Ben Diffley with another smaller keeper. Conn Coll went on to make all 5 goals - not blaming the other keeper as all shots were very well placed, but it just seemed odd to swap those GKs at that time.

[PaulNewman]

A little off topic but I've been meaning to ask the GK experts (SC, Hop92, Kuiper, CSO, etc) here....

What is your opinion of the shenanigans and gamesmanship that GKs so often engage in during PKs and especially PK shootouts?  Trying to be the person who hands the ball to the next shooter, coming way out to "show big" until the ref tells them to get on the line, hanging from the bar so it shakes, and all the other tricks?  I also get annoyed with refs who don't pay attention and let a lot of this go.  Anyway, I noticed that the JHU sub GK did the "show big" routine standing 3-5 yards in front of the PK takers for Muhlenberg.

I'll add that, while didn't turn out this way with Muhlenberg, that the "show big' maneuver feels very effective at least from an observer pov.

[College Soccer Observer]

PN--As a coach, and a referee, and a goalie dad; I hate all of that nonsense.  Under current rules, goalies are not allowed to touch the posts or crossbar before the kick.  I will never allow the GK to hand the ball to the shooter.  Too much can go wrong.  Get on the line and make the save if you can.  Knock off all the other stuff.

[PaulNewman]

PN--As a coach, and a referee, and a goalie dad; I hate all of that nonsense.  Under current rules, goalies are not allowed to touch the posts or crossbar before the kick.  I will never allow the GK to hand the ball to the shooter.  Too much can go wrong.  Get on the line and make the save if you can.  Knock off all the other stuff.

That's all basically how I feel....and it seems 80% or more of GKs didn't get the memo or got the memo and laughed at it or said "screw that, I got to do whatever I have to do to get my team to the next round."

[Hopkins92]

A little off topic but I've been meaning to ask the GK experts (SC, Hop92, Kuiper, CSO, etc) here....

What is your opinion of the shenanigans and gamesmanship that GKs so often engage in during PKs and especially PK shootouts?  Trying to be the person who hands the ball to the next shooter, coming way out to "show big" until the ref tells them to get on the line, hanging from the bar so it shakes, and all the other tricks?  I also get annoyed with refs who don't pay attention and let a lot of this go.  Anyway, I noticed that the JHU sub GK did the "show big" routine standing 3-5 yards in front of the PK takers for Muhlenberg.

I'll add that, while didn't turn out this way with Muhlenberg, that the "show big' maneuver feels very effective at least from an observer pov.

Meh. I don't have a big problem with standing out off my line, or doing the dancing along the goal line pre-kick, or taking that last swig of water to slow the process down (kickers often slow walk from their spot with their teammates, as a counter measure/tactic.)

I do have a problem with keepers taking the ball and holding it, waiting to hand it to the kick taker and give them the hairy eyeball. Refs should not allow that, IMO.

The other thing that is increasingly happening at the professional/international level, and obviously on PKs in the run of play, is a bunch of players on the defending team gathering around the ball and the kicker, being a nuisance and starting nonsense dust-ups to delay the kick and antagonize the kick taker.

It's gotten so bad, teams are putting up decoy kickers to be pestered and harassed. Once the referee clears out the knuckleheads the "real" kicker emerges and has all of that foolishness wiped away.

But, in general, I think a waft of gamesmanship is fine. It's when it gets silly (drinking water, then all of a sudden, your shoe laces are untied... excessiveness) then the ref needs to step in.

(Personally, I didn't engage in any of that. I loved PKs because of the mental fortitude you needed, and I had a few things I alluded to before that helped me have some success in those scenarios. I just didn't feel the need to get in the kickers head, other than bring my mind into sharp focus on the task at hand. I feel like some goalies get way too caught up in the "mind games" when they should be hyper focused on the "tells" of a given kicker and to react in the nanosecond when that tell appears.

ETA - One really good way to get in the other team's head in shootout? Not necessarily save everything, but if you are choosing the right direction consistently, they start to put too fine a point on their shots. If a dude skies one in the 3-5 rounds because I choose right in the first two rounds, I chalk that up to a save.

While watching the MLS Cup with friends on Saturday, I was having quite a day "guessing" which way the kickers were going to go. These aren't soccer guys (some were) and they want to bring me a around as a party trick now. )

[PaulNewman]

Maybe I'm just noticing more, but it seems like infringement on the referee's space and often actually making physical contact have become almost routine...not just when a PK is called but also for other calls during the game.

I don't like the "show big" move and I'm 99% sure it's because I think it's effective and a reason why you might put a 6'5, 6'6 GK in just for PKs.

Iirc, Old Ned, St Joseph's (ME) had a 6'8 (or taller) GK who if iirc helped SJU win a PK shootout with Babson and then "lost" one with Tufts.  He was very good btw, and not just a PK specialist.

[OldNed]

Maybe I'm just noticing more, but it seems like infringement on the referee's space and often actually making physical contact have become almost routine...not just when a PK is called but also for other calls during the game.

I don't like the "show big" move and I'm 99% sure it's because I think it's effective and a reason why you might put a 6'5, 6'6 GK in just for PKs.

Iirc, Old Ned, St Joseph's (ME) had a 6'8 (or taller) GK who if iirc helped SJU win a PK shootout with Babson and then "lost" one with Tufts.  He was very good btw, and not just a PK specialist.

PN, yes St. Joseph's (ME) had Blake Mullen who was 6'8 and was a really terrific goalie, including for PKs.  He's currently an assistant for the Scranton Women's team. 

Best game I ever saw any D3 goalie play was Mullen and Saint Joseph's against Tufts in the 2017 tournament, which ironically enough Tufts won on PKs.  Mullen was incredible during regular time and OT and continually frustrated Tufts with some of his saves.  I just looked up the stats and Tufts had 24 shots on the day and couldn't put one past Mullen - until PKs.  That St. Joe's team went the entire regular season without giving up a single goal, then Mitchell (really, Mitchell) scored on them in the 1st round of the tournament.  So for that year the defense let up just 1 goal, which is incredible. I think Mullen still holds the scoreless streak for D3 goalies.  That being said, defense was a team effort for St. Joe's as they also had All American Dalton Gaumer as their center back, and a really strong defensive mid.

The previous year in 2016, St. Joe's played at Babson in the first round of the tournament and that game also went to PKs and I saw Mullen make a couple of amazing saves as St. Joe's advanced in PKs.

I found this Youtube video of some of Mullen's saves from 2017.  The quality on some of the clips isn't great, but this gives an idea of how good he was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp5L3r-bke0

[Hopkins92]

Thanks for posting!

LOL... I'm sure it was wind aided, but the punt to the other team's 18... Awesome.

[Coach Jeff]

Watching the PK shootouts over the last week I was reminded of one from the past.  One of the greatest goal keeper substitution was in 2008 Messiah v Stevens tech in the finals.  The game was tied 1-1 at the end of the 2OT and Nick Blossey was put into the game for the PK shoot out and saved 3 PK attempts propelling Messiah to the national championship.