Mid-Atlantic Region

[Flying Weasel]

Yeah, as others have replied, when team swap GK's for shootouts, it's not always for "the bigger guy".  Two NCAA Tournament shootouts that I am familiar with (brother took part in one, my alma mater was in the other): 

(1) 1993 NCAA 1st Round, eventual semifinalist Clarkson played favored Plattsburgh to a 1-1 OT tie at snowy, sub-freezing Cortland St. Clarkson took out their senior starting GK who was "the bigger guy" (height and strength) in a favor of a shorter, skinnier freshman who was considered the better pure shot-stopper.  Clarkson won after 16 or 17 rounds (might have been the longest in D-III history at the time) with the kid coming up big. Just for the record, my brother, also a freshman, side-netted both his shots for the Knights! Another twist in the proceeding was that they moved to an adjacent field for the shootout because of the poor condition of the game field.

(2) 2008 NCAA Championship Final, Messiah and Stevens played to a 1-1 tie. The Falcons switched out their junior 2-year starter who was a bigger/stronger GK for senior back-up Nick Blossey whose only starts (5) in his 4-year career came as a junior due to an injury to the starter he now was replacing for PK's with a national title on the line.  He went on the save 3 shots in a 3-0 shootout vitory to hand Messiah it's 6th title. It was the final masterstroke of Coach Dave Brandt at Messiah as he left for Navy that offseason.  The opposite GK for Stevens: sophomore Zach Carr who would go on to be a two-time 1st Team All-American as a junior and senior, finishing with career marks of 55 solo shutouts and a .385 GAA which currently rank 1st and 6th all-time in men's Division III.

[SierraFD3soccer]

A little off topic but I've been meaning to ask the GK experts (SC, Hop92, Kuiper, CSO, etc) here....

What is your opinion of the shenanigans and gamesmanship that GKs so often engage in during PKs and especially PK shootouts?  Trying to be the person who hands the ball to the next shooter, coming way out to "show big" until the ref tells them to get on the line, hanging from the bar so it shakes, and all the other tricks?  I also get annoyed with refs who don't pay attention and let a lot of this go.  Anyway, I noticed that the JHU sub GK did the "show big" routine standing 3-5 yards in front of the PK takers for Muhlenberg.

I'll add that, while didn't turn out this way with Muhlenberg, that the "show big' maneuver feels very effective at least from an observer pov.

Meh. I don't have a big problem with standing out off my line, or doing the dancing along the goal line pre-kick, or taking that last swig of water to slow the process down (kickers often slow walk from their spot with their teammates, as a counter measure/tactic.)

I do have a problem with keepers taking the ball and holding it, waiting to hand it to the kick taker and give them the hairy eyeball. Refs should not allow that, IMO.

The other thing that is increasingly happening at the professional/international level, and obviously on PKs in the run of play, is a bunch of players on the defending team gathering around the ball and the kicker, being a nuisance and starting nonsense dust-ups to delay the kick and antagonize the kick taker.

It's gotten so bad, teams are putting up decoy kickers to be pestered and harassed. Once the referee clears out the knuckleheads the "real" kicker emerges and has all of that foolishness wiped away.

But, in general, I think a waft of gamesmanship is fine. It's when it gets silly (drinking water, then all of a sudden, your shoe laces are untied... excessiveness) then the ref needs to step in.

(Personally, I didn't engage in any of that. I loved PKs because of the mental fortitude you needed, and I had a few things I alluded to before that helped me have some success in those scenarios. I just didn't feel the need to get in the kickers head, other than bring my mind into sharp focus on the task at hand. I feel like some goalies get way too caught up in the "mind games" when they should be hyper focused on the "tells" of a given kicker and to react in the nanosecond when that tell appears.

ETA - One really good way to get in the other team's head in shootout? Not necessarily save everything, but if you are choosing the right direction consistently, they start to put too fine a point on their shots. If a dude skies one in the 3-5 rounds because I choose right in the first two rounds, I chalk that up to a save.

While watching the MLS Cup with friends on Saturday, I was having quite a day "guessing" which way the kickers were going to go. These aren't soccer guys (some were) and they want to bring me a around as a party trick now. )

Don't have any issue with GK pushing the boundaries on PKs.  If the center ref. has an issue, then he can issue yellow cards for unsportsmanlike/delay of game conduct which happens from time to time.

PK takers just have to mentally tough and make their kicks.  With or without the GKs doing these things, all the pressure on the taker to put on frame which is 192 square feet.  Should be very, very easy. 

As to the keeper jumping up and down, running back and forth, just like the fans behind the basket trying to distract the free throw taker.  FYI, keepers also have to stay on their lines which is very new (implemented in 2019 Laws of the Game).   

[MNBob]

Just for the record, my brother, also a freshman, side-netted both his shots for the Knights!

What does that mean? How does one hit the side of the net from the penalty spot? Or are you using the term side-netted to mean that he scored?

[Flying Weasel]

Just for the record, my brother, also a freshman, side-netted both his shots for the Knights!

What does that mean? How does one hit the side of the net from the penalty spot? Or are you using the term side-netted to mean that he scored?

Yes, his scoring shots hit the side netting.

[MNBob]

Just for the record, my brother, also a freshman, side-netted both his shots for the Knights!

What does that mean? How does one hit the side of the net from the penalty spot? Or are you using the term side-netted to mean that he scored?

Yes, his scoring shots hit the side netting.

Okay.    I've just heard that term for shots that looked like they went in from a certain angle but instead they hit the (out)side of the net.

[Coach Jeff]

Another Goal Keeper that I thought of was Dustin Shambach in 2004.  He and his team made it all the way to the finals without conceding a goal during the tournament and won the 2004 championship.  For the longest time (if not still) Dustin was the only keeper that played for and won a national championship without giving up a goal.  That included all goalies D1-D3...I be interested to know if he still holds that record.  I had the privilege of coaching him in high school and work numerous camps with him over the years.

[Kuiper]

A little off topic but I've been meaning to ask the GK experts (SC, Hop92, Kuiper, CSO, etc) here....

What is your opinion of the shenanigans and gamesmanship that GKs so often engage in during PKs and especially PK shootouts?  Trying to be the person who hands the ball to the next shooter, coming way out to "show big" until the ref tells them to get on the line, hanging from the bar so it shakes, and all the other tricks?  I also get annoyed with refs who don't pay attention and let a lot of this go.  Anyway, I noticed that the JHU sub GK did the "show big" routine standing 3-5 yards in front of the PK takers for Muhlenberg.

I'll add that, while didn't turn out this way with Muhlenberg, that the "show big' maneuver feels very effective at least from an observer pov.

I kind of like the game within a game.  Both the shooter and the keeper engage in it.  I wouldn't advise hanging on the goal or anything like that, but I know keepers who touch both posts and the cross bar, which both serves as a visualization technique to show they can "cover" all parts of the goal and a method of making a sign of the cross on the goal as a religious gesture.  Making yourself big and throwing them a death stare is intimidating, but it's also a focus technique to see if the shooter is looking a certain way.  My view is that whatever the GK needs to do to get themselves mentally ready is fine (within reason and time limits), just so long as they settle down for the shooter's penultimate step so they have their feet in position to exert maximum force and they can focus on useful clues and be decisive rather than reactive in going after the ball.

[Falconer]

Yeah, as others have replied, when team swap GK's for shootouts, it's not always for "the bigger guy".  Two NCAA Tournament shootouts that I am familiar with (brother took part in one, my alma mater was in the other): 

(2) 2008 NCAA Championship Final, Messiah and Stevens played to a 1-1 tie. The Falcons switched out their junior 2-year starter who was a bigger/stronger GK for senior back-up Nick Blossey whose only starts (5) in his 4-year career came as a junior due to an injury to the starter he now was replacing for PK's with a national title on the line.  He went on the save 3 shots in a 3-0 shootout vitory to hand Messiah it's 6th title. It was the final masterstroke of Coach Dave Brandt at Messiah as he left for Navy that offseason.  The opposite GK for Stevens: sophomore Zach Carr who would go on to be a two-time 1st Team All-American as a junior and senior, finishing with career marks of 55 solo shutouts and a .385 GAA which currently rank 1st and 6th all-time in men's Division III.

Yes, this story (raised first by Coach Jeff) is true as FW tells it. Blossey was named MVP of the Final Four for his terrific contribution. The back story has two further pieces. (1) In round two of the 2003 tournament, the defending champion Falcons were held to a scoreless tie at Salisbury. Their striker, Matt Bills (14 G in 18 G), had returned to the lineup after a serious muscle pull and he was far from 100%. The Falcons lost in an extended session of PKs. Brandt swore he'd never let that happen again. (2) With that loss specifically in mind, during the 2008 season Brandt had his GK coach (the great Dustin Shambach, already mentioned in this thread) work with Blossey on snuffing out PKs. They practiced this skill often, and Blossey got his moment in the sun. In other words, it wasn't a fluke that Blossey stopped 3 shots: he had been prepared exactly for that one job. (I know Nick Blossey and Dave Brandt, who were the sources of this information.)

[Coach Jeff]

Yeah, as others have replied, when team swap GK's for shootouts, it's not always for "the bigger guy".  Two NCAA Tournament shootouts that I am familiar with (brother took part in one, my alma mater was in the other): 

(2) 2008 NCAA Championship Final, Messiah and Stevens played to a 1-1 tie. The Falcons switched out their junior 2-year starter who was a bigger/stronger GK for senior back-up Nick Blossey whose only starts (5) in his 4-year career came as a junior due to an injury to the starter he now was replacing for PK's with a national title on the line.  He went on the save 3 shots in a 3-0 shootout vitory to hand Messiah it's 6th title. It was the final masterstroke of Coach Dave Brandt at Messiah as he left for Navy that offseason.  The opposite GK for Stevens: sophomore Zach Carr who would go on to be a two-time 1st Team All-American as a junior and senior, finishing with career marks of 55 solo shutouts and a .385 GAA which currently rank 1st and 6th all-time in men's Division III.

Yes, this story (raised first by Coach Jeff) is true as FW tells it. Blossey was named MVP of the Final Four for his terrific contribution. The back story has two further pieces. (1) In round two of the 2003 tournament, the defending champion Falcons were held to a scoreless tie at Salisbury. Their striker, Matt Bills (14 G in 18 G), had returned to the lineup after a serious muscle pull and he was far from 100%. The Falcons lost in an extended session of PKs. Brandt swore he'd never let that happen again. (2) With that loss specifically in mind, during the 2008 season Brandt had his GK coach (the great Dustin Shambach, already mentioned in this thread) work with Blossey on snuffing out PKs. They practiced this skill often, and Blossey got his moment in the sun. In other words, it wasn't a fluke that Blossey stopped 3 shots: he had been prepared exactly for that one job. (I know Nick Blossey and Dave Brandt, who were the sources of this information.)

Thanks Falconer...I did not know the entire story thanks for sharing

[MessageBoardMessi]

Yeah, as others have replied, when team swap GK's for shootouts, it's not always for "the bigger guy".  Two NCAA Tournament shootouts that I am familiar with (brother took part in one, my alma mater was in the other): 

(2) 2008 NCAA Championship Final, Messiah and Stevens played to a 1-1 tie. The Falcons switched out their junior 2-year starter who was a bigger/stronger GK for senior back-up Nick Blossey whose only starts (5) in his 4-year career came as a junior due to an injury to the starter he now was replacing for PK's with a national title on the line.  He went on the save 3 shots in a 3-0 shootout vitory to hand Messiah it's 6th title. It was the final masterstroke of Coach Dave Brandt at Messiah as he left for Navy that offseason.  The opposite GK for Stevens: sophomore Zach Carr who would go on to be a two-time 1st Team All-American as a junior and senior, finishing with career marks of 55 solo shutouts and a .385 GAA which currently rank 1st and 6th all-time in men's Division III.

Yes, this story (raised first by Coach Jeff) is true as FW tells it. Blossey was named MVP of the Final Four for his terrific contribution. The back story has two further pieces. (1) In round two of the 2003 tournament, the defending champion Falcons were held to a scoreless tie at Salisbury. Their striker, Matt Bills (14 G in 18 G), had returned to the lineup after a serious muscle pull and he was far from 100%. The Falcons lost in an extended session of PKs. Brandt swore he'd never let that happen again. (2) With that loss specifically in mind, during the 2008 season Brandt had his GK coach (the great Dustin Shambach, already mentioned in this thread) work with Blossey on snuffing out PKs. They practiced this skill often, and Blossey got his moment in the sun. In other words, it wasn't a fluke that Blossey stopped 3 shots: he had been prepared exactly for that one job. (I know Nick Blossey and Dave Brandt, who were the sources of this information.)

Thanks Falconer...I did not know the entire story thanks for sharing

These stories reinforce what I believe wholeheartedly- you must have plus GK play to take home the Natty.  Even teams that have dominated all season may be humbled quickly with an untested keeper. The GKs value does and will come down to a moment - especially in single elimination play.  Getting the job done during the course of conference play won't compare to the national tourney where their is more Parity between teams. And to be clear - plus GKs aren't marked by shot stopping - that is a given for a collegiate player.  We will see it in decision making- commanding the 6 , holding versus punching or parrying - and bravery.  Will be interesting to watch.

[Maine Soccer Fan]

Yeah, as others have replied, when team swap GK's for shootouts, it's not always for "the bigger guy".  Two NCAA Tournament shootouts that I am familiar with (brother took part in one, my alma mater was in the other): 

(2) 2008 NCAA Championship Final, Messiah and Stevens played to a 1-1 tie. The Falcons switched out their junior 2-year starter who was a bigger/stronger GK for senior back-up Nick Blossey whose only starts (5) in his 4-year career came as a junior due to an injury to the starter he now was replacing for PK's with a national title on the line.  He went on the save 3 shots in a 3-0 shootout vitory to hand Messiah it's 6th title. It was the final masterstroke of Coach Dave Brandt at Messiah as he left for Navy that offseason.  The opposite GK for Stevens: sophomore Zach Carr who would go on to be a two-time 1st Team All-American as a junior and senior, finishing with career marks of 55 solo shutouts and a .385 GAA which currently rank 1st and 6th all-time in men's Division III.

Yes, this story (raised first by Coach Jeff) is true as FW tells it. Blossey was named MVP of the Final Four for his terrific contribution. The back story has two further pieces. (1) In round two of the 2003 tournament, the defending champion Falcons were held to a scoreless tie at Salisbury. Their striker, Matt Bills (14 G in 18 G), had returned to the lineup after a serious muscle pull and he was far from 100%. The Falcons lost in an extended session of PKs. Brandt swore he'd never let that happen again. (2) With that loss specifically in mind, during the 2008 season Brandt had his GK coach (the great Dustin Shambach, already mentioned in this thread) work with Blossey on snuffing out PKs. They practiced this skill often, and Blossey got his moment in the sun. In other words, it wasn't a fluke that Blossey stopped 3 shots: he had been prepared exactly for that one job. (I know Nick Blossey and Dave Brandt, who were the sources of this information.)

Thanks Falconer...I did not know the entire story thanks for sharing

These stories reinforce what I believe wholeheartedly- you must have plus GK play to take home the Natty.  Even teams that have dominated all season may be humbled quickly with an untested keeper. The GKs value does and will come down to a moment - especially in single elimination play.  Getting the job done during the course of conference play won't compare to the national tourney where their is more Parity between teams. And to be clear - plus GKs aren't marked by shot stopping - that is a given for a collegiate player.  We will see it in decision making- commanding the 6 , holding versus punching or parrying - and bravery.  Will be interesting to watch.

I'd agree. I'd also add distribution to your list. A GK who distributes well takes a lot of pressure off his defense and can generate attacks. TBH I haven't seen too many GK's who distribute well this year.

[MessageBoardMessi]

Yeah, as others have replied, when team swap GK's for shootouts, it's not always for "the bigger guy".  Two NCAA Tournament shootouts that I am familiar with (brother took part in one, my alma mater was in the other): 

(2) 2008 NCAA Championship Final, Messiah and Stevens played to a 1-1 tie. The Falcons switched out their junior 2-year starter who was a bigger/stronger GK for senior back-up Nick Blossey whose only starts (5) in his 4-year career came as a junior due to an injury to the starter he now was replacing for PK's with a national title on the line.  He went on the save 3 shots in a 3-0 shootout vitory to hand Messiah it's 6th title. It was the final masterstroke of Coach Dave Brandt at Messiah as he left for Navy that offseason.  The opposite GK for Stevens: sophomore Zach Carr who would go on to be a two-time 1st Team All-American as a junior and senior, finishing with career marks of 55 solo shutouts and a .385 GAA which currently rank 1st and 6th all-time in men's Division III.

Yes, this story (raised first by Coach Jeff) is true as FW tells it. Blossey was named MVP of the Final Four for his terrific contribution. The back story has two further pieces. (1) In round two of the 2003 tournament, the defending champion Falcons were held to a scoreless tie at Salisbury. Their striker, Matt Bills (14 G in 18 G), had returned to the lineup after a serious muscle pull and he was far from 100%. The Falcons lost in an extended session of PKs. Brandt swore he'd never let that happen again. (2) With that loss specifically in mind, during the 2008 season Brandt had his GK coach (the great Dustin Shambach, already mentioned in this thread) work with Blossey on snuffing out PKs. They practiced this skill often, and Blossey got his moment in the sun. In other words, it wasn't a fluke that Blossey stopped 3 shots: he had been prepared exactly for that one job. (I know Nick Blossey and Dave Brandt, who were the sources of this information.)

Thanks Falconer...I did not know the entire story thanks for sharing

These stories reinforce what I believe wholeheartedly- you must have plus GK play to take home the Natty.  Even teams that have dominated all season may be humbled quickly with an untested keeper. The GKs value does and will come down to a moment - especially in single elimination play.  Getting the job done during the course of conference play won't compare to the national tourney where their is more Parity between teams. And to be clear - plus GKs aren't marked by shot stopping - that is a given for a collegiate player.  We will see it in decision making- commanding the 6 , holding versus punching or parrying - and bravery.  Will be interesting to watch.

I'd agree. I'd also add distribution to your list. A GK who distributes well takes a lot of pressure off his defense and can generate attacks. TBH I haven't seen too many GK's who distribute well this year.

Yes! Distribution is a game changer.  A lot more to it than kicking it long.  And I would also agree to not seeing many good signs of it this season.....

[Kuiper]

Yeah, as others have replied, when team swap GK's for shootouts, it's not always for "the bigger guy".  Two NCAA Tournament shootouts that I am familiar with (brother took part in one, my alma mater was in the other): 

(2) 2008 NCAA Championship Final, Messiah and Stevens played to a 1-1 tie. The Falcons switched out their junior 2-year starter who was a bigger/stronger GK for senior back-up Nick Blossey whose only starts (5) in his 4-year career came as a junior due to an injury to the starter he now was replacing for PK's with a national title on the line.  He went on the save 3 shots in a 3-0 shootout vitory to hand Messiah it's 6th title. It was the final masterstroke of Coach Dave Brandt at Messiah as he left for Navy that offseason.  The opposite GK for Stevens: sophomore Zach Carr who would go on to be a two-time 1st Team All-American as a junior and senior, finishing with career marks of 55 solo shutouts and a .385 GAA which currently rank 1st and 6th all-time in men's Division III.

Yes, this story (raised first by Coach Jeff) is true as FW tells it. Blossey was named MVP of the Final Four for his terrific contribution. The back story has two further pieces. (1) In round two of the 2003 tournament, the defending champion Falcons were held to a scoreless tie at Salisbury. Their striker, Matt Bills (14 G in 18 G), had returned to the lineup after a serious muscle pull and he was far from 100%. The Falcons lost in an extended session of PKs. Brandt swore he'd never let that happen again. (2) With that loss specifically in mind, during the 2008 season Brandt had his GK coach (the great Dustin Shambach, already mentioned in this thread) work with Blossey on snuffing out PKs. They practiced this skill often, and Blossey got his moment in the sun. In other words, it wasn't a fluke that Blossey stopped 3 shots: he had been prepared exactly for that one job. (I know Nick Blossey and Dave Brandt, who were the sources of this information.)

Thanks Falconer...I did not know the entire story thanks for sharing

These stories reinforce what I believe wholeheartedly- you must have plus GK play to take home the Natty.  Even teams that have dominated all season may be humbled quickly with an untested keeper. The GKs value does and will come down to a moment - especially in single elimination play.  Getting the job done during the course of conference play won't compare to the national tourney where their is more Parity between teams. And to be clear - plus GKs aren't marked by shot stopping - that is a given for a collegiate player.  We will see it in decision making- commanding the 6 , holding versus punching or parrying - and bravery.  Will be interesting to watch.

I'd agree. I'd also add distribution to your list. A GK who distributes well takes a lot of pressure off his defense and can generate attacks. TBH I haven't seen too many GK's who distribute well this year.

One key point on distribution: a GK who can punt or kick a GK far isn't something that tells you whether they are good at distribution. They're just good at placing your team's giveaway of the ball farther away from your own goal.  It may fit a coach's high press strategy, but it's not really a distribution plan like a throw, roll, or kick to a player so he can take it on the run.  And this is where a GK who catches and holds a ball can really be a playmaker. Too many, though, wait (or are told by their coaches to wait) to reduce the risk of an error in their own half.

[MessageBoardMessi]

Yeah, as others have replied, when team swap GK's for shootouts, it's not always for "the bigger guy".  Two NCAA Tournament shootouts that I am familiar with (brother took part in one, my alma mater was in the other): 

(2) 2008 NCAA Championship Final, Messiah and Stevens played to a 1-1 tie. The Falcons switched out their junior 2-year starter who was a bigger/stronger GK for senior back-up Nick Blossey whose only starts (5) in his 4-year career came as a junior due to an injury to the starter he now was replacing for PK's with a national title on the line.  He went on the save 3 shots in a 3-0 shootout vitory to hand Messiah it's 6th title. It was the final masterstroke of Coach Dave Brandt at Messiah as he left for Navy that offseason.  The opposite GK for Stevens: sophomore Zach Carr who would go on to be a two-time 1st Team All-American as a junior and senior, finishing with career marks of 55 solo shutouts and a .385 GAA which currently rank 1st and 6th all-time in men's Division III.

Yes, this story (raised first by Coach Jeff) is true as FW tells it. Blossey was named MVP of the Final Four for his terrific contribution. The back story has two further pieces. (1) In round two of the 2003 tournament, the defending champion Falcons were held to a scoreless tie at Salisbury. Their striker, Matt Bills (14 G in 18 G), had returned to the lineup after a serious muscle pull and he was far from 100%. The Falcons lost in an extended session of PKs. Brandt swore he'd never let that happen again. (2) With that loss specifically in mind, during the 2008 season Brandt had his GK coach (the great Dustin Shambach, already mentioned in this thread) work with Blossey on snuffing out PKs. They practiced this skill often, and Blossey got his moment in the sun. In other words, it wasn't a fluke that Blossey stopped 3 shots: he had been prepared exactly for that one job. (I know Nick Blossey and Dave Brandt, who were the sources of this information.)

Thanks Falconer...I did not know the entire story thanks for sharing

These stories reinforce what I believe wholeheartedly- you must have plus GK play to take home the Natty.  Even teams that have dominated all season may be humbled quickly with an untested keeper. The GKs value does and will come down to a moment - especially in single elimination play.  Getting the job done during the course of conference play won't compare to the national tourney where their is more Parity between teams. And to be clear - plus GKs aren't marked by shot stopping - that is a given for a collegiate player.  We will see it in decision making- commanding the 6 , holding versus punching or parrying - and bravery.  Will be interesting to watch.

I'd agree. I'd also add distribution to your list. A GK who distributes well takes a lot of pressure off his defense and can generate attacks. TBH I haven't seen too many GK's who distribute well this year.

One key point on distribution: a GK who can punt or kick a GK far isn't something that tells you whether they are good at distribution. They're just good at placing your team's giveaway of the ball farther away from your own goal.  It may fit a coach's high press strategy, but it's not really a distribution plan like a throw, roll, or kick to a player so he can take it on the run.  And this is where a GK who catches and holds a ball can really be a playmaker. Too many, though, wait (or are told by their coaches to wait) to reduce the risk of an error in their own half.

100%. I would argue that a long GK or punt should rarely if ever happen

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

Messiah and Stevens are the clear favorites to advance the furthest in the tournament as both earned top seeds in their respective regions.

Others that have a chance are Hopkins & F&M. PSU-Harrisburg might be able to turn some heads with their draw as well. They will be a tough out and can surprise some squads that overlook them. NYU with a brutal draw. They can also make a run but they are in a tough spot.

Don't see much of a chance for any kind of run from Catholic, Rowan, Rosemont, Scranton or Muhles. Sweet 16 at most for someone from this group but I would be shocked if any of them made it that far.