Mid-Atlantic Region

[SimpleCoach]

Paul have you read the Messiah Method, the book by a Messiah professor about the program. One of the big takeaways I had was how involved alumni are in the scouting and recruiting process. They essentially have a nationwide scouting network that encourages kids to attend camps and reach out to the coaches at Messiah. It then also leads to certain programs becoming feeder programs. The Robbins and at least two other players on those teams were all from the same Christian high school in Greensboro, NC.

Just ordered.  They are clearly doing something special there.  Even how they play is pretty unique in the D3 ranks.  And again, it's kind of an obscure school with a strong religious component that at first glance, wouldn't think it would attract the right type of players.  Find it fascinating especially since there are a number of schools ... and I have said as much ... that I expect so much more of.  If for anything because they have many of the attributes that would make them attractive to a recruit.  Again, this is the thing I am wrestling with and clearly something that Messiah has figured out.

[PaulNewman]

Paul have you read the Messiah Method, the book by a Messiah professor about the program. One of the big takeaways I had was how involved alumni are in the scouting and recruiting process. They essentially have a nationwide scouting network that encourages kids to attend camps and reach out to the coaches at Messiah. It then also leads to certain programs becoming feeder programs. The Robbins and at least two other players on those teams were all from the same Christian high school in Greensboro, NC.

I should take another look.  I seem to recall reading a downloadable version or a detailed summary years ago.

BTW, when is The Tufts Way by D4 hitting Amazon and local independent bookstores? 

[d4_Pace]

Might need to get through school before having time to write that one.

[Centennial1]

Might need to get through school before having time to write that one.

Pssshhh. Hasn't anybody told you that school is for nerds?

[d4_Pace]

Yep big time nerd over here.

[blooter442]

I should take another look.  I seem to recall reading a downloadable version or a detailed summary years ago.

Adding my 2¢ endorsement, as well. They also went into detail about the women's program — the ethos seem consistent across both programs.

[Falconer]

Let me respond to calls for Messiah people to chime in about certain things. I've addressed aspects of the rare, but not unique, ethos, in the past—and the book about the their soccer teams goes into this at length. I've also stressed the importance of families, not just individual players, making commitments to the institution and their teams. I probably said somewhere that Messiah might possibly have more sets of multiple siblings (including some mixed sets on both men's and women's teams) than any other institution I am aware of. OWU and Calvin have this, too, but I think to a lesser extent. To hammer the point down, leaving out a large number of other names, there were FOUR Thompson brothers through the years, all of them starters including an AA (Nick), and THREE Robbins brothers, all 3 of whom were AA (two defenders and one forward). A less known example: Nick West's older brother was the starting GK on a couple of national championship teams.

[PaulNewman]

Let me respond to calls for Messiah people to chime in about certain things. I've addressed aspects of the rare, but not unique, ethos, in the past—and the book about the their soccer teams goes into this at length. I've also stressed the importance of families, not just individual players, making commitments to the institution and their teams. I probably said somewhere that Messiah might possibly have more sets of multiple siblings (including some mixed sets on both men's and women's teams) than any other institution I am aware of. OWU and Calvin have this, too, but I think to a lesser extent. To hammer the point down, leaving out a large number of other names, there were FOUR Thompson brothers through the years, all of them starters including an AA (Nick), and THREE Robbins brothers, all 3 of whom were AA (two defenders and one forward). A less known example: Nick West's older brother was the starting GK on a couple of national championship teams.

Nice call on Brandon West.  Never made that connection.  Brandon of course was in goal on the frigid evening of 11-23-13.

And yes, OWU, Calvin, and Wheaton have a history of brothers in their programs, and OWU as the least mission-driven of that group definitely shares some characteristics with the others at least vis-a-vis the soccer programs.

[Falconer]

As for excellent attackers moving up from the back during their careers, that is indeed something that happens quite often at Messiah—or, vice versa. For example, two-time AA defender J D Binger started in the MF as a FR, and All-region defender Chris Claassen (who IMO merited AA status) began as a striker in his first season. Likewise, AA defender Aaron Faro (now the assistant coach) began as a MF and scored quite a few goals. Perhaps the most famous example of the opposite was the first truly great Messiah player, Hayden Woodward, the leader of the first two championship teams. An AA defender in 2000, he was injured part of 2001 and missed that honor, but in 2002 he was POY as a MF. The person mentioned above, who played in the back vs Tufts (and was AA there in 2015) and was later POY in MF, was Jacob "bend it like" Bender, a LF player who was truly dangerous on free kicks. His younger brother Josh played outside back on the 2017 team, and a younger brother Ben now plays for Maryland after considering following his brothers to Messiah. https://www.testudotimes.com/2021/9/7/22661354/no-7-maryland-mens-soccer-midfielder-ben-bender-named-big-ten-offensive-player-of-the-week-stats If Ben had become a Falcon, he would probably have been the top D3 player in the nation this year and the Falcons would probably be favored to win it all.

As has been pointed out, Luke Groothoff (a national HS AA from Maine) is now drawing attention as a forward, where McCarty recently put him after playing center mid in 2019 and being an AA CB as a FR. That first season was certainly a fluke, insofar as Luke had never played in the back before and didn't really want to play there in college; but, there was a desperate need that season for a dominant player back there and Luke certainly fits that description. When he played there, as his attacking skills became evident, he was green lighted to do pretty much anything with the ball, including carrying the ball all the way up into the box and shooting or passing once gaining possession on the back line. And, of course, his older brother is also on the team; his highly positive experiences at Messiah played a big role in persuading Luke to deflect interest from some pretty good D1 programs—the sibling effect once again. Their sister, I hear, is also now attending Messiah, though she's not on the soccer team.

There's so much more I could say on these two themes, but this is enough to start filling in the observations by others above.

[Falconer]

Center back from NC was Robbins. He had a brother on the team too which is another big Messiah thing. The center back looked like Jesus and just about played like him too. I walked away from that game most impressed with him and Brian Ramírez. Payne was 2X NPOY and might have been the fourth best player on that team which shows how good they were.

I entirely agree with this assessment: Payne was an excellent player, but not actually as good as those three teammates. IMO, Ramirez was the most highly skilled player on those teams—and as it turns out he had a brief professional career outside the US. A younger brother had played winger at Messiah, and either another brother or a cousin played for a national team, I think Honduras but don’t quote me on that. Winger Jack Thompson was not mentioned above, but he must be the implied fourth player. I rank him next after Ramirez on those teams.

[PaulNewman]

Center back from NC was Robbins. He had a brother on the team too which is another big Messiah thing. The center back looked like Jesus and just about played like him too. I walked away from that game most impressed with him and Brian Ramírez. Payne was 2X NPOY and might have been the fourth best player on that team which shows how good they were.

I entirely agree with this assessment: Payne was an excellent player, but not actually as good as those three teammates. IMO, Ramirez was the most highly skilled player on those teams—and as it turns out he had a brief professional career outside the US. A younger brother had played winger at Messiah, and either another brother or a cousin played for a national team, I think Honduras but don't quote me on that. Winger Jack Thompson was not mentioned above, but he must be the implied fourth player. I rank him next after Ramirez on those teams.

I had mentioned Thompson a few posts above that along with Wood, Payne, Ramirez and Robbins.  Thompson had our right back on skates and dizzy.  He was not containable and imo was the most dangerous if not the most talented overall.  Kenyon AA Sam Justice saved a sure Thompson goal off the line before Ramirez finally got the winner at 88:16.

[Hopkins92]

I actually saw Bender score on a PK against Virginia earlier this year. That tied the game and was followed by a goal very similar to Groothoff's goal the other night. One of the best goals I've seen live/in person.

[Centennial1]

I've only seen a handful of Messiah matches through the years, but the player that stands out for me (sample size: one game) was Kai Kasiguran. Messiah hosted a first-weekend NCAA match, and he just dominated.

[joking777]

Paul have you read the Messiah Method, the book by a Messiah professor about the program. One of the big takeaways I had was how involved alumni are in the scouting and recruiting process. They essentially have a nationwide scouting network that encourages kids to attend camps and reach out to the coaches at Messiah. It then also leads to certain programs becoming feeder programs. The Robbins and at least two other players on those teams were all from the same Christian high school in Greensboro, NC.

Just ordered.  They are clearly doing something special there.  Even how they play is pretty unique in the D3 ranks.  And again, it's kind of an obscure school with a strong religious component that at first glance, wouldn't think it would attract the right type of players.  Find it fascinating especially since there are a number of schools ... and I have said as much ... that I expect so much more of.  If for anything because they have many of the attributes that would make them attractive to a recruit.  Again, this is the thing I am wrestling with and clearly something that Messiah has figured out.

I haven't read The Messiah Method, but another book that I would be curious if it was used by other coaches is Grit, by Angela Duckworth. At the end of the book she recounts her discussions with the UNC women's coach, Anson Dorrance, about building a culture of success. If you don't have time to read the entire book, you can just read chapters 11 and 12 and get the idea. I imagine there is a lot of overlap in ideas.

https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duckworth/dp/1501111108

[Ejay]

Speaking of Anson Dorrance, this is one of the best books I've read...

The Man Watching: Anson Dorrance and the University of North Carolina Women's Soccer Dynasty

https://www.amazon.com/Man-Watching-Dorrance-University-Carolina/dp/0312616090