Mid-Atlantic Region

Started by Mid-Atlantic Fan, August 29, 2017, 02:44:32 PM

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stlawus

#1890
April 12, 2023, 03:39:17 PM
I am the furthest thing from a recruiting expert, but having followed the process for a while I've noticed that there is usually one type of pedigree that almost always indicates success at the college level, and that's being a high school All American.  Most, if not all of them usually go division I but the ones that go division III always have great careers.

soccerpapa

#1891
April 13, 2023, 12:09:00 PM
What is considered a great career at the Division 3 level? - do they go on to be All-American at this level as well? 

It would be interesting to look at the D3 and USC All-American teams from this past year and see who was a HS All-american, All-Region, All-State and vice versa-(How many HS all Americans received recognition at the D3 Level from either their conferences, or USC) - anybody have time to delve into this  - lol

stlawus

#1892
April 13, 2023, 12:58:26 PM Last Edit: April 13, 2023, 01:00:33 PM by stlawus
It's something interesting to explore, but the two HS AA SLU had were both first team AA.   Sibanda was one who had 2 first team AA, and the other would have likely had 2 first team AA if not for a season ending injury his senior season.  I've no doubt that the rest of the d3 HS AA were at least 1st or second all league.

Kuiper

#1893
April 13, 2023, 01:07:13 PM
Quote from: soccerpapa on April 13, 2023, 12:09:00 PM
What is considered a great career at the Division 3 level? - do they go on to be All-American at this level as well? 

It would be interesting to look at the D3 and USC All-American teams from this past year and see who was a HS All-american, All-Region, All-State and vice versa-(How many HS all Americans received recognition at the D3 Level from either their conferences, or USC) - anybody have time to delve into this  - lol

I think there are a lot of D3 players who have great careers and don't receive all-American recognition, especially when you look at the differences between the USC rankings and the D3soccer.com rankings or the SimpleCoach rankings (do I need a TM symbol there, SC?  ;D).  That's probably true even at the conference level too, where different conferences have different politics for this stuff.   

On the flip side, the state awards have lost some of their luster.  I know a lot of college coaches who discount HS awards, especially with the proliferation of state levels allowing a ton of players to be named "all state."  All-American or State Player of the Year still probably mean something, but it's not clear below that.  Plus, not all kids play HS soccer anymore because of DA/MLS Next rules or the de-funding of HS sports in some places.  ODP also used to get coaches' attention, but that has declined in significance as well.  As with anything else, the awards might get a coach to open a kids' email, but the advent of easy highlight videos has reduced their importance.  In my day, a kid might get recruited on their soccer resume and a HS coaches' recommendation alone, but today even a coach with no scouting budget at all can watch all of a kids' club games (and maybe HS games) online themselves and kids travel so widely for showcases and tournaments that most coaches see players live as well as watch their videos.

Ejay

#1894
April 13, 2023, 07:21:25 PM
I know of two HS All-Americans who were playing for Mid-Atlantic teams this year that didn't earn D3 All-Region accolades.  In fact, one didn't even earn all-conference honors. I'm sure there are plenty others if you were to look.

SimpleCoach

#1895
April 14, 2023, 08:01:57 AM
Quote from: Kuiper on April 13, 2023, 01:07:13 PM
Quote from: soccerpapa on April 13, 2023, 12:09:00 PM
What is considered a great career at the Division 3 level? - do they go on to be All-American at this level as well? 

It would be interesting to look at the D3 and USC All-American teams from this past year and see who was a HS All-american, All-Region, All-State and vice versa-(How many HS all Americans received recognition at the D3 Level from either their conferences, or USC) - anybody have time to delve into this  - lol

I think there are a lot of D3 players who have great careers and don't receive all-American recognition, especially when you look at the differences between the USC rankings and the D3soccer.com rankings or the SimpleCoach rankings (do I need a TM symbol there, SC?  ;D). 

No TM.  But would appreciate if you added BRBF.... Best Ranking By Far ...  Actually, more like 9/10DPSCBRBF... 9 out of 10 Doctors Prefer the SimpleCoach Best Ranking By Far....  So, going forward please use "SimpleCoach Rankings 9/10DPSCBRBF".  That'll do it.

Thank you for your consideration.

SC.

Kuiper

#1896
May 30, 2023, 12:14:42 PM
From Ursinus College to Interim HC of the US Men's National Team:  BJ Callaghan

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1663576273782726658?s=20

Kuiper

#1898
June 23, 2023, 01:26:41 PM Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 02:01:54 PM by Kuiper
Sad news out of the Atlantic East Conference.  Cabrini is being sold to Villanova.  This will be its last season of D3 sports.

https://twitter.com/d3hoops/status/1672213073418153985?s=20

QuoteCabrini University is expected to be sold to Villanova University and will cease operating as a separate entity after the 2023-24 academic year and sports season, D3sports.com and Hoopsville have learned.

This continues the trend of larger, Division I institutions, taking over Division III institutions in the same area and closing the smaller school. Cabrini and Villanova, two Catholic schools in the Philadelphia suburbs, sit less than 2 miles apart.

The information was confirmed by multiple sources. The sources could not speak on the record because they are not currently authorized to speak publicly about the subject. An official announcement is expected once Villanova's full Board of Trustees votes. The plan has already been approved by a board committee.

The sale comes as Cabrini has lost nearly half of its student population, especially in the graduate student population. The school had 1,235 full-time undergraduate students, 61 percent of them women, as of its most recent published filing with the U.S. Department, through the 2021-22 academic year.

UPDATE:  It is now official.  Here's the joint statement from Villanova and Cabrini

https://www1.villanova.edu/content/university/media/press-releases/2023/agreement.html

Of note, the agreement does not state that Cabrini students who will not graduate this next academic year will become Villanova students. Cabrini will assist students with transfer options, but this sounds like a straight land/facility acquisition, not a merger.  All of those players will need to find homes for the year after next and I imagine some of them might be calling around now to see if there are spots open this summer for the coming fall.

TNAggie

#1899
July 04, 2023, 10:11:06 PM
I don't know what factors are used for the latest Massey Ratings since all teams are 0-0, and a very large grain of salt is required here; nonetheless, the current preseason national rankings per Massey Ratings for teams in the Centennial Conference are interesting:
#15 Johns Hopkins
#29 Gettysburg
#31 Franklin & Marshall
#33 Washington College
#42 Muhlenberg
#73 Swarthmore
#87 Dickinson
#89 Haverford
#142 McDaniel
#187 Ursinus

Hopkins92

#1900
July 05, 2023, 12:19:13 PM
I think early season Massey is slightly wonky, of course.

But even knowing not to put a ton of stock in it... The Bullets higher than the Dips?

I dunno how that got worked up. I wasn't all that impressed with their approach to the game last season. (Relying on long-ball/quick counters and long throw-ins). Kind of taking F&M's version of chaos ball but not really all that effective.

SierraFD3soccer

#1901
July 05, 2023, 02:21:41 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on July 05, 2023, 12:19:13 PM
I think early season Massey is slightly wonky, of course.

But even knowing not to put a ton of stock in it... The Bullets higher than the Dips?

I dunno how that got worked up. I wasn't all that impressed with their approach to the game last season. (Relying on long-ball/quick counters and long throw-ins). Kind of taking F&M's version of chaos ball but not really all that effective.

It is what it is as to Massey.  All will be shuffled and guessing that Massey is basing it on strength of schedule and success of the teams from last year.  May be all a fallacy as some of the COVID kids have moved on, but some are still there. 

As to F&M and chaos ball, they pretty much only played that way for an entire game against JHU last year. I would say that the long throw ins was not used regularly (though they do have a freshman, now sophomore, who can throw far). Definitely liked quick counters and who doesn't.

Gregory Sager

#1903
July 25, 2023, 11:04:04 AM
Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on July 05, 2023, 02:21:41 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on July 05, 2023, 12:19:13 PM
I think early season Massey is slightly wonky, of course.

But even knowing not to put a ton of stock in it... The Bullets higher than the Dips?

I dunno how that got worked up. I wasn't all that impressed with their approach to the game last season. (Relying on long-ball/quick counters and long throw-ins). Kind of taking F&M's version of chaos ball but not really all that effective.

It is what it is as to Massey.  All will be shuffled and guessing that Massey is basing it on strength of schedule and success of the teams from last year.  May be all a fallacy as some of the COVID kids have moved on, but some are still there.

One thing that I learned about Massey in 2022-23, much to my chagrin, is that the results of a program's previous season are baked in far more deeply than I had once thought. The best proof of this is in how Massey rates programs that have a wild swing in performance in either direction from one year to the next. North Park's men's basketball program had been dismal in 2021-22, and even worse than dismal for the four seasons previous. Thanks to a new coach, a lot of new players, and a new style of play, the Vikings turned their fortunes around immensely in 2022-23, going from 10-14 overall and a 5-11 seventh-place finish in the CCIW to 24-6, a CCIW tournament championship, a Sweet Sixteen appearance, and a 13-3 second-place finish in the CCIW. Yet Massey lagged so far behind in terms of recognizing NPU's turnaround that for the bulk of January and February -- in other words, more than halfway through the season -- it was predicting that the Vikings would win only one or two more games and would finish with a losing record, which gradually became a predicted-mediocre record, which gradually became an OK-they're-good-so-far-but-they're-definitely-going-to-start-losing-now record. Massey was predicting that teams that the Vikings had beaten by 20 points or more in the first go-round of the CCIW double round-robin would beat NPU in the return game.

It was astonishing to see, and a little bit disheartening as well, because I'd always put great stock in Massey as a reliable ratings source. My project this year is to examine the opposite side of the coin -- in other words, find some team that has had a good recent history of success that is obviously down at the heels this school year, and see if Massey holds that team up above where it should be.

The d3boards.com basketball-boards posters feature a number of people who are skilled at data analysis and dissecting algorithms. (That's not a jab at the soccer-boards posters; there's simply a lot more basketball-boards regulars in general.) I had a lot of back-and-forth with them about this over the course of last winter; obviously my conversion from Massey enthusiast to Massey critic was motivated by partisan reasons, but the consensus of the data experts on the basketball boards in the wake of our extended conversation is that Massey is indeed subjective in how it handles the data and the parameters it uses in its algorithm (i.e., how long and how strongly the previous season's data remains manifest in the current season's results).

Unless someone can show proof otherwise, the logical conclusion to draw about the Massey Ratings (given Ken Massey's herculean attempt to cover the entire waterfront of American collegiate sports) is that he uses the same algorithm for each sport. Given that, I would suggest that D3 men's soccer Massey Ratings be taken with more than a pinch of salt.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

stlawus

#1904
July 25, 2023, 11:41:57 AM
I noticed the same thing last year. SLU basketball was a Massey underdog in 7 of their last 9 games of the season, and they won 8 in a row through the conference tournament. They were underdogs in all 3 games against RPI including having a 17% chance of winning the road matchup but won all 3 games. One or two misses is a normal statistical blip, but to happen repeatedly is another thing. With soccer I noticed thatthe score line can significantly change your rating. Massey is limited obviously, but not all score lines are the same as in soccer it's common for teams to rest players in gimme games. It's nice to have something like Massey but the limitations have become pretty clear the past few seasons.
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