Now Streaming...

[irapthor]

To much chit-chat nonsense between these 2 announcers....Focus on the game boys....You have done well all weekend

Thanks for the feedback...sometimes when there's a lull in the action you try to be a little more light-hearted in the conversations...especially when the two announcers (in this case Dave and I) are friends in real life.

[LM3]

No. Teams who lose are traditionally sent home the next day (or that night in some sports/cases). If teams stay, the schools have to foot the bill - ala I wonder if Chicago men will stay to support the women.

Also, if they do stay to Sunday... they can't always go home Sunday night. Furthermore, if you had a Hope, Calvin, Wheaton, etc. here, the games would then be pushed to Monday and that is even more money.

Back to my original point: DII gets 5.0% of the NCAA overall operating budget and they have 1/3 or so the numbers DIII has... whose operating budget is 3.1%. Those are the cards dealt. They aren't going to change. DIII has looked into changing aspects of all their tournaments like adding a day in between - it has been talked about often. The costs have not been favorable to make such a change especially after having just come out of a major budget tightening few years.

you aren't really proving anything here... yeah losing team goes home when they lose what does that have to do with the winning teams playing on sunday.. in 2013 we played friday night and saturday night. we still had the hotel on sunday and if the game was at 12pm they would be able to leave later that night. I experienced it first hand. it's not fair to the players.

So who knows what you want for "proof" ... but this is the rules by which Division III has chose to govern themselves. You are trying to compare to another division who governs itself under a different set of numbers budget wise and it's own rules as well. Apples and oranges on many levels.

My point about the losing team going home is that they aren't even in town when the championship game is played. The winning teams only stay one more night. You are asking for the championship teams to possibly stay two more nights. Sure, they could play a noon game, however is that fair either? To play an early game when maybe no one can watch? (I.E. football has chosen to play on Friday nights under the lights to have a better TV crowd than to play on Saturday at noon when less people will see the game.)

As for Sunday, you are ignoring the biggest issue... a lot of good soccer problems have rules about not playing on Sundays. Messiah is about the only Christian-based school I know that has chosen to allow for games to be played on Sunday. Hope, Calvin, Wheaton (both), etc. will do allow it. So... in your scenario, they are playing the games Friday and Sunday... paying for hotel rooms for at least Wednesday-Sunday... and one of the three (four) schools listed get to the title game... and can't play until Monday. That is now another night of rooms and missed class time especially at a time of year where final classes for the semester or finals in general are taking place.

Everything I have just mentioned is what presidents will tell you are reasons they will not allow for a day in between for a day off. Financial, missed class time, chance of a delay, etc.

Many say it is unfair to the student-athlete... I was once a college soccer player myself. I understand the challenges, but it happens in most sports in the NCAA for a lot of very good reasons. They even included rules to keep games from being played too soon after one another (thus why Messiah didn't go Saturday/Sunday a few weeks ago with their schedule).

It has been discussed a number of times, it has been researched and debated... it isn't going to be changed.

I agree and not only that I am surprised that D2 gets 5% of the overall NCAA budget and D3 only get 3.1% as D2 has WAY less teams and IMO is slowly dying out as more and more programs are leaving D2 and even NAIA to go D3..

DII isn't dying as much as people think. Yes, there has been a decline in numbers, but that has plateaued. Also, most of where schools are coming from to DIII is NAIA and otherwise. DII isn't as popular a destinations as it used to be for DIIIs, but it does happen occasionally as well.

And despite numbers going up or down, changing the budget distribution would take an entire NCAA vote - all three divisions. Those numbers are how it was set-up when the three divisions were formed. DI would have to be willing to give up more of it's money and DII willing to lose money or allow DIII to get a bigger piece of the pie. Lot of politics involved in that and highly doubtful it will ever happen. DIII nearly two years ago approved a measure to increase dues. Technically, they should have gotten 3.1% of that increase. However, the NCAA approved that DIII keep all of the increase. That was the solution to try and add more money to the DIII budget because it was well known asking the NCAA to bump up the percentage was basically a non-starter.

For better or worse, DIII Benedictine seems as if they will indeed move to D2 in the 2018-19 season...everything I hear has them filing the papers this Winter. As my son plays there, it will put us in the mode of trying to understand the pluses and minues...perhaps exploring other options. Oh well...we'll see.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

For better or worse, DIII Benedictine seems as if they will indeed move to D2 in the 2018-19 season...everything I hear has them filing the papers this Winter. As my son plays there, it will put us in the mode of trying to understand the pluses and minues...perhaps exploring other options. Oh well...we'll see.

Don't get too far ahead just yet... not positive this is going to happen. From what I am told, the Board of Trustees has not decided if they want to make the move. If they approve the idea, then there is paperwork to fill out and a decision by NCAA/DII on whether to accept them.

I know Benedictine has been looking, but there are no indications as of yet the move is going to happen - even seem to happen.

FYI - one has to have the paperwork complete by a deadline in early January for there to be any chance. So, the timing is there, but I am not sure this is a done deal right now. One vote goes the other direction and it stops cold.

[Dog Face]

For better or worse, DIII Benedictine seems as if they will indeed move to D2 in the 2018-19 season...everything I hear has them filing the papers this Winter. As my son plays there, it will put us in the mode of trying to understand the pluses and minues...perhaps exploring other options. Oh well...we'll see.

I know Benedictine has been looking, but there are no indications as of yet the move is going to happen - even seem to happen.

Would be interesting to know why they're thinking of the switch- so they grant athletic scholarships?  so they have a better chance (from a % basis) of making NCAA tournaments?  so they can have more fulsome off-season training?  so that the athletic competition better aligns with their applicant pool?  so they can join the conference which best aligns with them geographically or from an overall academic perspective?

FYI - one has to have the paperwork complete by a deadline in early January for there to be any chance. So, the timing is there, but I am not sure this is a done deal right now. One vote goes the other direction and it stops cold.

[LM3]

For better or worse, DIII Benedictine seems as if they will indeed move to D2 in the 2018-19 season...everything I hear has them filing the papers this Winter. As my son plays there, it will put us in the mode of trying to understand the pluses and minues...perhaps exploring other options. Oh well...we'll see.

Don't get too far ahead just yet... not positive this is going to happen. From what I am told, the Board of Trustees has not decided if they want to make the move. If they approve the idea, then there is paperwork to fill out and a decision by NCAA/DII on whether to accept them.

I know Benedictine has been looking, but there are no indications as of yet the move is going to happen - even seem to happen.

FYI - one has to have the paperwork complete by a deadline in early January for there to be any chance. So, the timing is there, but I am not sure this is a done deal right now. One vote goes the other direction and it stops cold.

I am not really rooting for it, but it is now an open discussion in the Athletic Department  and through the various teams. All indications is that paperwork will be filed, but what happens after that is unknown. That said, I claim no insider info, and I respect your caution.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Would be interesting to know why they're thinking of the switch- so they grant athletic scholarships?  so they have a better chance (from a % basis) of making NCAA tournaments?  so they can have more fulsome off-season training?  so that the athletic competition better aligns with their applicant pool?  so they can join the conference which best aligns with them geographically or from an overall academic perspective?

One item I was told was that the president (and many are like this) wants the prestige of moving to another division. They see the grass and think its greener and thus also think that there will be fanfare and much celebration. Put that on their resume and they feel they suddenly become more sought after.

Another one that I heard somewhere was that some alum (maybe alums) were willing to pony up the money to help and make it happen.

The other item is that one of the conferences in the area has been courting them because that conference would love to have a tent pole in the Chicagoland area.

As for making the NCAA tournaments, sure they would have a better chance - the percentage of schools to bids in DII is astronomical compared to DIII, but the costs can make that not worth it. There are facility requirements, scholarship money additions, and much more that make this move far more than just a shift. Financially, this is a HUGE decision and not one that is taken lightly or is easy to make happen. Several DIIIs in recent years have tried to make the shift and have returned to DIII with their tail between their legs. Others have done it and then flat-out disappeared - no more NCAA tournament appearances, either.

As for their applicant pool and conference alignments, I think that is secondary if not on a third tier. They are in a conference in DIII they can compete and win in. They are in a situation where they have already proven they can succeed. This feels more ego and "fireworks" in nature. I don't personally see why moving to DII would make any sense. Many I have talked to in the department don't necessarily want to leave DIII. They feel the division is a better fit than DII.

[Ommadawn]

One item I was told was that the president (and many are like this) wants the prestige of moving to another division. They see the grass and think its greener and thus also think that there will be fanfare and much celebration. Put that on their resume and they feel they suddenly become more sought after.

I am not altogether convinced that moving from DIII to DII is necessarily a guaranteed step-up in prestige.  I know you need to take each school's situation a case-by-case situation, but in some parts of the country and in some sports more than others, moving to DIII from DII elevates a school's prestige, both academically and athletically.  In New England about 20 years ago, there was an exodus away from DII, with some schools (e.g., Bryant, Quinnipiac) moving to DI and some schools moving to DIII (e.g., Keene State, Springfield). In some sports, the schools moving to DIII had tougher, not easier, competition in DIII.

[Mr.Right]

FYI----NCAA D1 NCAA Semi's on ESPNU tonight..Will have to listen to Twellman but 2 good games..

6pm- Akron v Stanford

830pm---UNC v Indiana

You have some National Team products on the field for all 4 teams especially Stanford and UNC. You do have Indiana Stud striker and Big Ten ROY Mason Toye who played at Seton Hall Prep with a couple D3 guys.

[1970s NESCAC Player]

FYI----NCAA D1 NCAA Semi's on ESPNU tonight..Will have to listen to Twellman but 2 good games..

6pm- Akron v Stanford

830pm---UNC v Indiana

You have some National Team products on the field for all 4 teams especially Stanford and UNC. You do have Indiana Stud striker and Big Ten ROY Mason Toye who played at Seton Hall Prep with a couple D3 guys.

Thanks much for the heads up.  Almost forgot this was tonight.

[Mr.Right]

1-0 Stanford up on Akron after a horrendous defensive giveaway.Akron knocking the ball around the back and the CB got stripped and Stanford finished it off nicely...

[Mr.Right]

2-0 Stanford..

In other news Bobby Clark hangs em up at age 73...Class act with a HUGE coaching tree across the country and all divisions. Congrats

http://www.und.com/sports/m-soccer/spec-rel/112817aao.html


My bet is his son would want to maybe succeed him at Notre Dame. I am kind of hoping the Dartmouth Head Coach finds a better job as well because I would like to see that Dartmouth job open up. It opened up a couple years ago when Jeff Cook left to go to the Philadelphia Union to be a youth coach in their system. I do not think it was the greatest move on his part but that is another story. Chad Riley got the Dartmouth job when it opened up but Wesleyan Head Coach Geoff Wheeler was a finalist. A situation where he has been a couple times with D1 openings in the past. He missed out at Harvard, Yale and Dartmouth which is where he played for Bobby Clark. After 18 years, I am guessing Wheeler wants a new challenge. While Wesleyan is a good job there is only so far you can go as it is a different kind of school to recruit to in Nescac. You usually are getting scraps from the Top Nescac's. His most successful team was in 2009 when they WON Nescac and had a LEGIT team. They finished 12-2-5 and 6-0-3 in Nescac. They were an extremely tough out that year and got VERY unlucky as they lost in the NCAA Sweet 16 to UR at Messiah in 2 OT. IIRC Wesleyan speedster Asante Brooks had a chance to win it in regulation but missed a sitter. That Wesleyan team had one of the better GK's Nescac has seen the lat 15 years with Adam Purdy. They were also extremely difficult to break down defensively and had some threats in midfield and up top. That same pod at Messiah saw an unbelievable comeback by Messiah over Hopkins in the final minute or Messiah would have been eliminated. Had Wesleyan gotten by UR they would of had a fantastic chance against Messiah or Hopkins. Was not meant to be. Anyway, would love to see Wheeler get a chance at Dartmouth as he would be a finalist again IMO. Actually, I thought he had WAY MORE experience than Chad Riley who was pretty young with no Head Coaching experience but was a Bobby Clark guy. he did not get the job for whatever reason but I thought he should have. Wheeler has got to be north of 50 so he might not have another opportunity but he is a very solid coach and here's hoping he gets that chance.

[luckylefty]

It's hard to say Cooke leaving Dartmouth for the Union was a bad move.  College coaching is a grind, and being able to step back and Coach Academy kids and not have to worry about recruiting, or budgets or anything else, and at the same time getting to coach incredibly high level teams?

There is ALOT of college coaches that would sign up for that.

Seems like Wheeler has been out of the D1 game for a long time, makes a direct jump there as a Head Coach even more difficult.

[Mr.Right]

It's hard to say Cooke leaving Dartmouth for the Union was a bad move.  College coaching is a grind, and being able to step back and Coach Academy kids and not have to worry about recruiting, or budgets or anything else, and at the same time getting to coach incredibly high level teams?

There is ALOT of college coaches that would sign up for that.

Seems like Wheeler has been out of the D1 game for a long time, makes a direct jump there as a Head Coach even more difficult.

This is complete nonsense...Cook leaving Dartmouth was a HUGE mistake...He went to get his "Professional License" before leaving Dartmouth. Yes that is the same license Brandt got fired for not having at Pittsburgh. So Cook had the mindset of coaching professionally. His ego got in the way of his career. He leaves Dartmouth which is a very "safe" D1 job that unless you totally screw it up you would have for your career. He THINKS by going to coach in Philadelphia's youth system and with that license he would eventually coach in MLS. That was a tremendous mistake. Technical Director's usually have total control over the MLS teams youth system so if the Technical Director is fired or leaves it is quite possible that the new Technical Director would clean house and bring in his own guys. Cook is still in that same role so that has not happened yet BUT he took a pay cut for sure and for what? Coaching an MLS U-15 or U-14 Youth team? Give me a break...Are you really saying that is a more challenging role than coaching college age kids at Dartmouth? If it is than you have no clue what you are talking about.

[Mr.Right]

It's hard to say Cooke leaving Dartmouth for the Union was a bad move.  College coaching is a grind, and being able to step back and Coach Academy kids and not have to worry about recruiting, or budgets or anything else, and at the same time getting to coach incredibly high level teams?

There is ALOT of college coaches that would sign up for that.

Seems like Wheeler has been out of the D1 game for a long time, makes a direct jump there as a Head Coach even more difficult.

I will take issue with the comment you made against Wheeler as well..Yes he has been out of the D1 game for a while and yes SOME not ALL AD's would look at that as possibly worrisome but to me those AD"S are clueless anyway. It should not determine whether a Coach can do the job or not. To me a Head Coach is a Head Coach whether it is in D1 or D3. 18 years of experience at Wesleyan would look way better to me than a young D1 assistant with no head coaching experience. Since he was a FINALIST at Harvard, Yale and Dartmouth in the past 10 years I would be willing to bet those AD"s agree with me. He would have never been a Finalist if they thought being out of the D1 game for to long mattered. What it is telling me is that either those 3 schools had better candidates OR Wheeler did not impress in those 2nd/3rd Round of interviews.

[luckylefty]

It's hard to say Cooke leaving Dartmouth for the Union was a bad move.  College coaching is a grind, and being able to step back and Coach Academy kids and not have to worry about recruiting, or budgets or anything else, and at the same time getting to coach incredibly high level teams?

There is ALOT of college coaches that would sign up for that.

Seems like Wheeler has been out of the D1 game for a long time, makes a direct jump there as a Head Coach even more difficult.

This is complete nonsense...Cook leaving Dartmouth was a HUGE mistake...He went to get his "Professional License" before leaving Dartmouth. Yes that is the same license Brandt got fired for not having at Pittsburgh. So Cook had the mindset of coaching professionally. His ego got in the way of his career. He leaves Dartmouth which is a very "safe" D1 job that unless you totally screw it up you would have for your career. He THINKS by going to coach in Philadelphia's youth system and with that license he would eventually coach in MLS. That was a tremendous mistake. Technical Director's usually have total control over the MLS teams youth system so if the Technical Director is fired or leaves it is quite possible that the new Technical Director would clean house and bring in his own guys. Cook is still in that same role so that has not happened yet BUT he took a pay cut for sure and for what? Coaching an MLS U-15 or U-14 Youth team? Give me a break...Are you really saying that is a more challenging role than coaching college age kids at Dartmouth? If it is than you have no clue what you are talking about.

That wasnt even close to my point.  My point was that being able to not have to travel as much, coach an incredibly high level academy team, and be able to forget about recruiting and everything else is a job many college coaches would be interested in.  It's easy to say it was a HUGE MISTAKE, but you have zero idea where this guy was in his life and what he actually wanted.  Maybe he just got tired of the college soccer recruiting grind and wanted to just coach soccer? Maybe he also got a huge pay bump.  Who knows, but to say this was a mistake means you would have to know exactly what Cooke was looking for and what he thought about college soccer.  Which obviously none of us do. He also coaches the Union U-18's not their u-14's or u-15's.  He's had the opportunity to coach a ton of outrageously high level players over the past few years, and that will only continue.  Some of them are better players then he would have ever had the chance to coach at Dartmouth (Derrick Jones for instance).

Being out of the D1 game for as long as Wheeler has matters for one reason.  He hasn't had to manage scholarships in 20 years.  You cannot overlook how complicated and difficult that is.  You mismanage two scholarships and you set your program back for years.  That obviously doesn't apply to the Ivy's you mentioned because they don't do athletic scholarships, but for other D1's that absolutely matters and its a real barrier.  There is no doubt he could lead a program, manage a staff etc, he is already doing that.  But can he manage athletic scholarships?  You can be great in every single facet, but if you make mistakes with your athletic offers you will be boxed in.  I'm not saying he couldn't be great, I'm just saying it will give AD's pause.