Shenandoah, TX 2018-19 NCAA d3fb championships

[Teamski]

The year Bridgewater made the Stagg was the highest attended Stagg in Salem, so it does compute. 100% born out. Two of the three Staggs with the highest attendance of all time were the one in Phenix City with a school 90 miles away and the one in Salem with a school 90 or so miles away. Two of the three worst attended Staggs in Salem were Linfield/UMHB and UMHB/UWO.
Proximity is pretty clearly the major driver of attendance.
 

That is fine, but my point was really about  the fact that Salem is not selected because of attendance.  This was in defense of my suggestion that a more centrally located championship would be better attended overall which was countered by the "Low attendance" argument.  I probably didn't get that across very well, sorry.  I don't think that filling the stands with UMU faithful at Canton in what is supposed to be a neutral location is ideal and if UMU doesn't make it, we have another Salem....in 30 degree weather...with possible snow hampering travel.   

-Ski

[jknezek]

The year Bridgewater made the Stagg was the highest attended Stagg in Salem, so it does compute. 100% born out. Two of the three Staggs with the highest attendance of all time were the one in Phenix City with a school 90 miles away and the one in Salem with a school 90 or so miles away. Two of the three worst attended Staggs in Salem were Linfield/UMHB and UMHB/UWO.
Proximity is pretty clearly the major driver of attendance.
 

That is fine, but my point was really about  the fact that Salem is not selected because of attendance.  This was in defense of my suggestion that a more centrally located championship would be better attended overall which was countered by the "Low attendance" argument.  I probably didn't get that across very well, sorry.  I don't think that filling the stands with UMU faithful at Canton in what is supposed to be a neutral location is ideal and if UMU doesn't make it, we have another Salem....in 30 degree weather...with possible snow hampering travel.   

-Ski

The only team to make the Stagg in recent history that would travel farther to Canton than Salem is UMHB. Closer to everyone else since probably Bridgewater. That being said, I think the problem with Nashville or Memphis is it is really close to no one likely to make the Stagg. The games that get the highest attendance are easy driving distance for one team. Think day trip. Memphis and Nashville don't qualify for anyone likely to make it. Canton doesn't really work for the most likely players besides UMU either, but I still think that facility and the HOF next door are solid draws and benefits to the student athletes.

There just isn't a good answer to this problem. In all those games between UMU and UWW you'd have ideally had the game somewhere due north of Indianapolis. But you can't organize these things that way. So you pick a community and hope for the best. Salem did a great job. Shenandoah seems to have buyer's remorse. Canton has some unique amenities. Memphis and Nashville? All that means is even more people need to buy last second flights...

[wally_wabash]

Nobody routinely, or ever, practices in lake effect blizzards.  That kind of condition favors nobody.  This is a bad take. 

Lake effect snow would cancel the game of course (another good reason why the location is less than ideal).  Seasonal snow and cold is another story, and that DOES play into the cold weather team's hands.  Example:  Wesley at UWW 2005.  Snow hits the field that week.  Wesley shows up (which is not a good cold weather team to begin with) and finds out that the cleats they brought were too short.  Too late.  The subsequent slip-laden game results in a 58-6 loss.  UWW practiced on that turf and were ready for the conditions.  Not saying that Wesley would have won the game, but they were better than that.

This was a seeded game.  If this was a championship, how would that show who was the better team?

-Ski

Honestly, that's on y'all.  Don't blame the weather because your guys didn't pack the right shoes.  Anybody wanting to play for championships in D3 has to be ready to play anywhere in December.  If cold is an excuse for a team, they're not ready. 

[Pat Coleman]

Delaware, Ohio (Ohio Wesleyan, with a 9,000-seat stadium) also put in to host, as did Detroit, which wanted to host a D2/D3 doubleheader in Ford Field.

[Teamski]

Main Issue:

A Location/City/Etc. has to APPLY to host the Championship.  The NCAA just doesn't Assign the game to a random location.

IMO, the NCAA made a mistake in wanting to "Move the Championship Around."

Salem has done an amazing job in hosting the Stagg and although I like the fact that the game will be played in Canton for a couple of years, I still think they should have kept it in Salem.

IMG Academy applied a few years ago, and it would have been a nice easy drive for me to attend, it didn't make sense for overall attendance at the game.  Very few locals would attend (IMO) and not everyone can make airline reservations with less that 7 days notice to support their team.

I am sure a bit of scouting by the NCAA would do wonders.  The DIII football championship is obviously an additional duty to some unfortunatel NCAA staff and it shows.  A good centralized location is FAR more equitable for everybody.  Central location like Memphis is closer to most DIII teams than Salem is and usually has better weather not affected by coastal or mountain terrain.   You can't tell me that the NCAA couldn't discuss options with different cities to host a championship that would be more amenable to DIII in general.  Yeah, the locations have to apply for it.  It doesn't mean that they have to read minds.  This thing doesn't pass the eye test IMHO.

-Ski

[Teamski]

Delaware, Ohio (Ohio Wesleyan, with a 9,000-seat stadium) also put in to host, as did Detroit, which wanted to host a D2/D3 doubleheader in Ford Field.

Now Detroit would be cool with a pair of championships on the card!  That would boost attendance a bit for sure.  Detroit would garner more local interested just from the local football fans in a large media market. 

-Ski

[wally_wabash]

Delaware, Ohio (Ohio Wesleyan, with a 9,000-seat stadium) also put in to host, as did Detroit, which wanted to host a D2/D3 doubleheader in Ford Field.

Now Detroit would be cool with a pair of championships on the card!  That would boost attendance a bit for sure.  Detroit would garner more local interested just from the local football fans in a large media market.

-Ski

No. It. Would. Not.  Thousands and thousands of unaffiliated people are not just going to show up for a D3 football game, championship or not, just because they like football.  You're WAY overestimating casual interest in small college football. 

[Teamski]

Honestly, that's on y'all.  Don't blame the weather because your guys didn't pack the right shoes.  Anybody wanting to play for championships in D3 has to be ready to play anywhere in December.  If cold is an excuse for a team, they're not ready.

So, you seen no adverse affect on a team practicing in 50-60 degree weather for a 25-35 degree game vs a team that is already there having hosted a string of 30-40 degree games?  Unless you have a fieldhouse that can double as a freezer, you are at a distinct disadvantage.

-Ski

[Pat Coleman]

Agreed -- that only draws well if Grand Valley is playing in the D2 game and that doesn't help D3 at all. In this scenario, D3 is the little brother at its own championship.

[Teamski]

Delaware, Ohio (Ohio Wesleyan, with a 9,000-seat stadium) also put in to host, as did Detroit, which wanted to host a D2/D3 doubleheader in Ford Field.

Now Detroit would be cool with a pair of championships on the card!  That would boost attendance a bit for sure.  Detroit would garner more local interested just from the local football fans in a large media market.

-Ski

No. It. Would. Not.  Thousands and thousands of unaffiliated people are not just going to show up for a D3 football game, championship or not, just because they like football.  You're WAY overestimating casual interest in small college football.

I think you are likewise underestimating the interest in football in a major city.   We aren't talking about Salem here.  Some decent local advertising will fill additional seats.  More than at Salem, that is for sure.

-Ski

[Teamski]

Agreed -- that only draws well if Grand Valley is playing in the D2 game and that doesn't help D3 at all. In this scenario, D3 is the little brother at its own championship.

If the games are played back to back, you will get people in attendance watching both games instead of a single game out in left field in Texas.

-Ski

[Pat Coleman]

Agreed -- that only draws well if Grand Valley is playing in the D2 game and that doesn't help D3 at all. In this scenario, D3 is the little brother at its own championship.

If the games are played back to back, you will get people in attendance watching both games instead of a single game out in left field in Texas.

-Ski

Well, we're going to get to test your hypothesis, because Shenandoah is in the Houston media market and some decent local advertising would do the same for that game.

[wally_wabash]

Honestly, that's on y'all.  Don't blame the weather because your guys didn't pack the right shoes.  Anybody wanting to play for championships in D3 has to be ready to play anywhere in December.  If cold is an excuse for a team, they're not ready.

So, you seen no adverse affect on a team practicing in 50-60 degree weather for a 25-35 degree game vs a team that is already there having hosted a string of 30-40 degree games?  Unless you have a fieldhouse that can double as a freezer, you are at a distinct disadvantage.

-Ski

Not really, no.  25-35 isn't even really that cold if we're being honest.  If 25-35 degrees is "adverse", then I have questions about how soft Wesley football is. 

[Teamski]

Agreed -- that only draws well if Grand Valley is playing in the D2 game and that doesn't help D3 at all. In this scenario, D3 is the little brother at its own championship.

If the games are played back to back, you will get people in attendance watching both games instead of a single game out in left field in Texas.

-Ski

Well, we're going to get to test your hypothesis, because Shenandoah is in the Houston media market and some decent local advertising would do the same for that game.

Yeah, but Shenandoah isn't Ford Field is it?    That said, I think that DIII is getting better visibility with having ESPN3 showing the Semi's for the last couple years and the finals on TV, of course.  That wasn't always the case.  Brand recognition you know.......

-Ski

[merlecanlas]

Nobody routinely, or ever, practices in lake effect blizzards.  That kind of condition favors nobody.  This is a bad take. 

Lake effect snow would cancel the game of course (another good reason why the location is less than ideal).  Seasonal snow and cold is another story, and that DOES play into the cold weather team's hands.  Example:  Wesley at UWW 2005.  Snow hits the field that week.  Wesley shows up (which is not a good cold weather team to begin with) and finds out that the cleats they brought were too short.  Too late.  The subsequent slip-laden game results in a 58-6 loss.  UWW practiced on that turf and were ready for the conditions.  Not saying that Wesley would have won the game, but they were better than that.

This was a seeded game.  If this was a championship, how would that show who was the better team?

-Ski

Lake Effect Snow rarely reaches the Canton Area.  More in the Upper NE corner of the state

no joke.  Canton has had a dusting so far, and might get 1-2" total before Friday night.  Canton is tropical compared to the Snow Belt.