Shenandoah, TX 2018-19 NCAA d3fb championships

[WRMUalum13]

Can someone give me a good reason why the athletes are going to like Houston/Canton less than Salem?  I'm sure the media/staff/admins are going to miss the Salem gift packs that they get in their hotel rooms.

For Canton...
If I were an athlete I'd be pretty upset that the 2020 Stagg is 30 minutes from the biggest d3 dynasty. Also December weather in Northeast Ohio can be nasty.

[AO]

Can someone give me a good reason why the athletes are going to like Houston/Canton less than Salem?  I'm sure the media/staff/admins are going to miss the Salem gift packs that they get in their hotel rooms.

For Canton...
If I were an athlete I'd be pretty upset that the 2020 Stagg is 30 minutes from the biggest d3 dynasty. Also December weather in Northeast Ohio can be nasty.

Playing hoops I was always more excited to play a true road game rather than a neutral site game.  Way more fun to have the stands filled even if they're mostly cheering against you.

[jknezek]

Can someone give me a good reason why the athletes are going to like Houston/Canton less than Salem?  I'm sure the media/staff/admins are going to miss the Salem gift packs that they get in their hotel rooms.

I can't see a drawback to Canton. The fact that UMU is typically in the Stagg just doesn't outweigh the facility or the proximity to the HoF.

As for Shenandoah. It's not actually in Houston. I mean, Houston goes for ages, it is a massively spread out city, so it's kind of hard to say what is and isn't near it, because Houston itself encompasses 600 square miles. On the upside, the airport is on the same side of those 600 square miles, so it's only about 25 miles away. But... the host city really makes an event like this. How they treat the players, how things are set up at the banquets, how the stadium is set up and the volunteers are gathered. How it is publicized. It just doesn't appear that Shenandoah is all that interested in doing that.

What does that mean to the players as opposed to the fans? I'm not sure. You'd have to ask someone who's been there as a player. But I'd guess the better run the event then what the host does isn't really noticed. The more the host scrimps and skips the details, the more it will be noticed.

[Ron Boerger]

Perhaps should either UMHB or UMU make it to next year's Stagg, D3fb can do an interview with one of the seniors comparing the two experiences 

[WRMUalum13]

Can someone give me a good reason why the athletes are going to like Houston/Canton less than Salem?  I'm sure the media/staff/admins are going to miss the Salem gift packs that they get in their hotel rooms.

I can't see a drawback to Canton. The fact that UMU is typically in the Stagg just doesn't outweigh the facility or the proximity to the HoF.

As for Shenandoah. It's not actually in Houston. I mean, Houston goes for ages, it is a massively spread out city, so it's kind of hard to say what is and isn't near it, because Houston itself encompasses 600 square miles. On the upside, the airport is on the same side of those 600 square miles, so it's only about 25 miles away. But... the host city really makes an event like this. How they treat the players, how things are set up at the banquets, how the stadium is set up and the volunteers are gathered. How it is publicized. It just doesn't appear that Shenandoah is all that interested in doing that.

What does that mean to the players as opposed to the fans? I'm not sure. You'd have to ask someone who's been there as a player. But I'd guess the better run the event then what the host does isn't really noticed. The more the host scrimps and skips the details, the more it will be noticed.

I mean I don't think canton's a bad fit either however, as a mount fan I've heard the "Mount always gets the easy route through the playoffs, it's not fair that they recruit way out of state, Mount should move up to division 2" I'm just not looking forward to adding "AND now they get a home game for the championship "to that list of complaints lol. But who knows if Mount will even make it to Canton, maybe our dynasty had a special connection to Salem (hope not, fingers crossed!)

[Toby Taff]

Can someone give me a good reason why the athletes are going to like Houston/Canton less than Salem?  I'm sure the media/staff/admins are going to miss the Salem gift packs that they get in their hotel rooms.

I can't see a drawback to Canton. The fact that UMU is typically in the Stagg just doesn't outweigh the facility or the proximity to the HoF.

As for Shenandoah. It's not actually in Houston. I mean, Houston goes for ages, it is a massively spread out city, so it's kind of hard to say what is and isn't near it, because Houston itself encompasses 600 square miles. On the upside, the airport is on the same side of those 600 square miles, so it's only about 25 miles away. But... the host city really makes an event like this. How they treat the players, how things are set up at the banquets, how the stadium is set up and the volunteers are gathered. How it is publicized. It just doesn't appear that Shenandoah is all that interested in doing that.

What does that mean to the players as opposed to the fans? I'm not sure. You'd have to ask someone who's been there as a player. But I'd guess the better run the event then what the host does isn't really noticed. The more the host scrimps and skips the details, the more it will be noticed.

25 year's ago, i worked in Spring and the Woodlands/Conroe area was the edge of Houston. Shenandoah is well within the sprawl and has all the amenities a big city has to offer. If the city gets behind it, my guess is that the experience will be great.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Question for you Dave or anyone else that may have more historical knowledge than I do. I too have seen the comments that the people of Shenandoah don't care and that will clearly mean that the product will be sub standard. My question, do we know what the people of Salem thought 25 years ago? 25 years ago if the city council members of Shenandoah would have made the same comments none of us would have known. Clearly I know that Salem is more in D3 country so I am sure there was more buy in initially but that doesn't mean it wasn't a lot of work for them and didn't require a few years to earn the good will that is obviously this many years later.

I do have my doubts about the success of a Texas Stagg Bowl but I am confident that since UMHB is listed as a co-sponsor of the event we will not let it be a terrible event.

Sorry for my delay... it has been a crazy week and I simply didn't have time to be on the boards.

The reason I and others have made the comments about Shenandoah is in what we have seen publicly. The city council meetings have been anything but positive. The information I am getting behind the scenes has been less than encouraging. I certainly am not saying the game and event will be an epic fail, but I also reference you to the final D3football.com podcast where they had one of football's former liaisons... his comments are worth listening to because he points out just why Shenandoah and even Canton won't live up to expectations for more than just those of us who are so familiar with the event.

Can someone give me a good reason why the athletes are going to like Houston/Canton less than Salem?  I'm sure the media/staff/admins are going to miss the Salem gift packs that they get in their hotel rooms. 

Feel free to ask the student-athletes. They speak highly of the Salem experience every time I ask them. Those around the championships talk about how the student-athletes are treated better in Salem than any other place in the NCAAs.

Salem and taken the championships in the NCAA and put them on another level. I have said this so often I feel like I may be a broken record, but they have elevated the student-athlete experience more than just about anyone in the entire NCAA. It isn't about gift bags for those like media (I have gotten one on a few occasions; certainly not the majority of my visits). It is about the gift bags the SAs get - something Salem was the first to do in the entire NCAA. It is about the hospitality, how details like laundry are taken care of, and how the SAs are treated from the moment they win their semifinal game (in the case of football) through their departure of Salem. The region has elevated the experience for the student-athletes to something that even the D1 bowl games can't compare with (again, I reference you to the podcast). Community service, celebrations, game environment. There are things Salem does and started doing that the NCAA has made mandatory at all of their other championships - and being one who has been to other championships, those experiences for the SAs still aren't on the same level as Salem. They deserve the props and applause for what they have done for 86 total NCAA championships (70 in DIII) so far and will continue to do, though on a small scale after March.

The bar Salem has set is probably impossible to meet. As a result, we all have to lower our expectations - plain and simple. Salem even pushed us, at D3sports and personally, to do better. We wouldn't have done the Gagliardi, Pregame, Hoopsville Courtside, and other stuff nearly as much or as well as we have done them if not for the individuals like Carey Harveycutter, John Saunders, Brad Bankston, JJ Nekeloff, Paul, Brian, and many others too numerous to mention have been driven to make the student-athletes' experience better including making sure we did things better as a result.

It is about the student-athletes ... never mistake that in any of our comments.

As for the assertion about Salem 25 years ago... the stories are numerous... they wanted to do this. They fought to do this. They did their research and made sure they were prepared. Ask anyone in Salem, the NCAA, or elsewhere and the decision to come to Salem was not one that was orchestrated. The committee talks about being blown away by Salem about why they wanted the Stagg Bowl. There weren't city council meetings that left people scratching their heads. Those stories were repeated several times this week.

Now, no one will tell you it didn't take Salem a few years to settle in. The joke last night was that it took ten years. LOL The reality is it will take time, but that is also how moving the championships around could end up doing more harm than good. What Shenandoah realizes needs to be improved from the first year only has the second year to be either implemented or ignored (because it is only one more year). Same with Canton. The disadvantage with always moving the championships around is that the hosts never have time to iron things out. Salem never sat on its rear-ends thinking they had solved things. Even after nearly 90 championships they are constantly looking to do things better.

[merlecanlas]

from hearing all of the podcasts, pre and post game coverage, and reading twitter; it seems like the folks of Salem and D3 guys aren't too optimistic about Stagg Bowl 46 and 47 in Texas.

I am incredibly biased, but I think Canton can grab the bar that Salem raised and take it even higher.  Hopefully Shenandoah doesn't screw things up too bad.   

Thanks for all of the memories Salem and all those that I can no longer remember

[Ralph Turner]

How well did the City of Shenandoah handle the NCAA D-III Women's Swimming and Diving Championships, March 15-18, 2017?  The city also hosted D3 S&D Nationals in 2013 and 2015.

Was that experience something that the city learned it did not want to deal with the NCAA again?

Was the NCAA happy with the community's support of the event, such that the NCAA will no longer favorably receive a bid from Shenandoah for another Championship?

https://www.egovlink.com/public_documents300/shenandoah/published_documents/Communications/2017/NCAA%20Announcement%20REVISED.pdf

[merlecanlas]

How well did the City of Shenandoah handle the NCAA D-III Women's Swimming and Diving Championships, March 15-18, 2017?  The city also hosted D3 S&D Nationals in 2013 and 2015.

Was that experience something that the city learned it did not want to deal with the NCAA again?

Was the NCAA happy with the community's support of the event, such that the NCAA will no longer favorably receive a bid from Shenandoah for another Championship?

https://www.egovlink.com/public_documents300/shenandoah/published_documents/Communications/2017/NCAA%20Announcement%20REVISED.pdf

not sure if Women's swimming and diving is the same as football.  Good luck to Shenandoah.  I don't wan't the Mount Union players to have two years of sub-par football championships.  An empty stadium is going to look horrible on ESPN if it's Mount vs UW-Whoever or Minnesota team of the year or East region darling.  But the opposite of that is, how much money is a UMHB "home game" going to bring into Shenandoah?

I hope it works and is not too terrible.  D3 deserves better.

[Pat Coleman]

Men's and women's swimming and diving (they're hosted together, folks) is a different animal. It's definitely a logistical challenge, but it's not a spectator sport, and I will be hoping to see butts in seats for football.

[wally_wabash]

How well did the City of Shenandoah handle the NCAA D-III Women's Swimming and Diving Championships, March 15-18, 2017?  The city also hosted D3 S&D Nationals in 2013 and 2015.

Was that experience something that the city learned it did not want to deal with the NCAA again?

Was the NCAA happy with the community's support of the event, such that the NCAA will no longer favorably receive a bid from Shenandoah for another Championship?

https://www.egovlink.com/public_documents300/shenandoah/published_documents/Communications/2017/NCAA%20Announcement%20REVISED.pdf

not sure if Women's swimming and diving is the same as football.  Good luck to Shenandoah.  I don't wan't the Mount Union players to have two years of sub-par football championships.  An empty stadium is going to look horrible on ESPN if it's Mount vs UW-Whoever or Minnesota team of the year or East region darling.  But the opposite of that is, how much money is a UMHB "home game" going to bring into Shenandoah?

I hope it works and is not too terrible.  D3 deserves better.

Come on.  You have to give it a chance at least.  They deserve people to go into it next year with at least an open mind.

[merlecanlas]

How well did the City of Shenandoah handle the NCAA D-III Women's Swimming and Diving Championships, March 15-18, 2017?  The city also hosted D3 S&D Nationals in 2013 and 2015.

Was that experience something that the city learned it did not want to deal with the NCAA again?

Was the NCAA happy with the community's support of the event, such that the NCAA will no longer favorably receive a bid from Shenandoah for another Championship?

https://www.egovlink.com/public_documents300/shenandoah/published_documents/Communications/2017/NCAA%20Announcement%20REVISED.pdf

not sure if Women's swimming and diving is the same as football.  Good luck to Shenandoah.  I don't wan't the Mount Union players to have two years of sub-par football championships.  An empty stadium is going to look horrible on ESPN if it's Mount vs UW-Whoever or Minnesota team of the year or East region darling.  But the opposite of that is, how much money is a UMHB "home game" going to bring into Shenandoah?

I hope it works and is not too terrible.  D3 deserves better.

Come on.  You have to give it a chance at least.  They deserve people to go into it next year with at least an open mind.

I'll give it a chance, but I'm just reading the tea leaves.  The local support seems to be lacking, and Mount/UW-?/Linfield/East fans are all going to have trouble booking a flight within 4-5 days to Houston.  Seems like trouble. 

Shenandoah should invest in a few thousand purple t-shirts for all of the free tickets that they will be giving away.  Pretty good chance they will blend in with whatever teams are in the game. 

[AO]

Question for you Dave or anyone else that may have more historical knowledge than I do. I too have seen the comments that the people of Shenandoah don't care and that will clearly mean that the product will be sub standard. My question, do we know what the people of Salem thought 25 years ago? 25 years ago if the city council members of Shenandoah would have made the same comments none of us would have known. Clearly I know that Salem is more in D3 country so I am sure there was more buy in initially but that doesn't mean it wasn't a lot of work for them and didn't require a few years to earn the good will that is obviously this many years later.

I do have my doubts about the success of a Texas Stagg Bowl but I am confident that since UMHB is listed as a co-sponsor of the event we will not let it be a terrible event.

Sorry for my delay... it has been a crazy week and I simply didn't have time to be on the boards.

The reason I and others have made the comments about Shenandoah is in what we have seen publicly. The city council meetings have been anything but positive. The information I am getting behind the scenes has been less than encouraging. I certainly am not saying the game and event will be an epic fail, but I also reference you to the final D3football.com podcast where they had one of football's former liaisons... his comments are worth listening to because he points out just why Shenandoah and even Canton won't live up to expectations for more than just those of us who are so familiar with the event.

Can someone give me a good reason why the athletes are going to like Houston/Canton less than Salem?  I'm sure the media/staff/admins are going to miss the Salem gift packs that they get in their hotel rooms. 

Feel free to ask the student-athletes. They speak highly of the Salem experience every time I ask them. Those around the championships talk about how the student-athletes are treated better in Salem than any other place in the NCAAs.

Salem and taken the championships in the NCAA and put them on another level. I have said this so often I feel like I may be a broken record, but they have elevated the student-athlete experience more than just about anyone in the entire NCAA. It isn't about gift bags for those like media (I have gotten one on a few occasions; certainly not the majority of my visits). It is about the gift bags the SAs get - something Salem was the first to do in the entire NCAA. It is about the hospitality, how details like laundry are taken care of, and how the SAs are treated from the moment they win their semifinal game (in the case of football) through their departure of Salem. The region has elevated the experience for the student-athletes to something that even the D1 bowl games can't compare with (again, I reference you to the podcast). Community service, celebrations, game environment. There are things Salem does and started doing that the NCAA has made mandatory at all of their other championships - and being one who has been to other championships, those experiences for the SAs still aren't on the same level as Salem. They deserve the props and applause for what they have done for 86 total NCAA championships (70 in DIII) so far and will continue to do, though on a small scale after March.

The bar Salem has set is probably impossible to meet. As a result, we all have to lower our expectations - plain and simple. Salem even pushed us, at D3sports and personally, to do better. We wouldn't have done the Gagliardi, Pregame, Hoopsville Courtside, and other stuff nearly as much or as well as we have done them if not for the individuals like Carey Harveycutter, John Saunders, Brad Bankston, JJ Nekeloff, Paul, Brian, and many others too numerous to mention have been driven to make the student-athletes' experience better including making sure we did things better as a result.

It is about the student-athletes ... never mistake that in any of our comments.

As for the assertion about Salem 25 years ago... the stories are numerous... they wanted to do this. They fought to do this. They did their research and made sure they were prepared. Ask anyone in Salem, the NCAA, or elsewhere and the decision to come to Salem was not one that was orchestrated. The committee talks about being blown away by Salem about why they wanted the Stagg Bowl. There weren't city council meetings that left people scratching their heads. Those stories were repeated several times this week.

Now, no one will tell you it didn't take Salem a few years to settle in. The joke last night was that it took ten years. LOL The reality is it will take time, but that is also how moving the championships around could end up doing more harm than good. What Shenandoah realizes needs to be improved from the first year only has the second year to be either implemented or ignored (because it is only one more year). Same with Canton. The disadvantage with always moving the championships around is that the hosts never have time to iron things out. Salem never sat on its rear-ends thinking they had solved things. Even after nearly 90 championships they are constantly looking to do things better.

Took some notes while listening to the podcast, maybe I can pass this on to the Shenandoah/Canton folks.
Reasons why Salem is great:
Driving Distance for at least one of the teams - tough to control this one, but odds are good Mount and UMHB will be involved and able to drive at least one of the two years you host.
Relationships - Carey Harveycutter sounds like a tough guy to beat in this regard-just be yourself.
Community - Mostly hope for the best, but it sounds like that mostly refers to the city providing for stadium upgrades which won't be necessary in Shenandoah or Canton.
Better than 1987 Blue Bonnet Bowl - You have a major advantage in that the players are actually excited about the Stagg Bowl.
Great snow removal Shouldn't be much of an issue for Shenandoah, Canton might also have more snow plows that Salem?
Laser tag Should be available in both places?  I know the FCS championship also hosts a fun night at a bowling alley/arcade with amazing BBQ, could be something to try to copy.
Giant gift bags including soda, toothpaste, and razors Pretty self-explanatory.  That's a far cheaper gift bag than the $550 the D1 bowls give out in gifts to 250 players on both teams.
60 experienced staff including ushers/security Might be relatively easy to recruit and train staff considering how UMHB and Canton are used to hosting well attended football games.

[Pat Coleman]

merle -- you're incorrect about flying to Houston. While it's true that the vast majority of Division III schools (even the vast majority of Stagg Bowl teams from the past decade) would have to fly to Houston, there are a ton of flights and available seats into that market, compared to flying to ROA or even CAK.