FB: New York State Bowl

[Bartman]

If Hobart beats SLU I think you see them at Cortland on 11/17 b/c IC takes the ECAC bid having already played them (like what happened in 2017).

Outside chance IC gets a Pool C by beating Cortland or does Muhlenberg have it? If IC does not make dance, I would think  they go for ECAC as you suggest. A Cortland -Hobart game would be awesome for Hobart to really measure where they have come since the drubbing by Bport in first week. They have to beat SLU though, who seems to have improved over the season.  If Hobart loses they finish 4-5 and 2-3 in the LL.  It would be the first losing season since Coach Cragg's first year in 1995. No pressure on DeWall .

I hope Hobart has a short memory, last week ended on a very sour note.  This young team has started to really come together the last 4 weeks (despite the results on the scoreboard). I also am looking forward to seeing a little more of our Freshman QB on the field, not sure if Hoffman's shoiulder is still injured, but he didn't have the zip on the ball that he has had in other games.  Cortland-Hobart would be a great match up

Oline,
    Not that it matters now, but wanted your opinion on the refs call where the Hofman pass was ruled a fumble. It looked live on Saturday like the throwing motion was started and I just watched it again on the Ithaca site and it looked to me that he started his throwing motion, then it was swatted by IC defender. It was a bang-bang play, but that was a pretty big turning point in the game. Hobart was close enough for a Hackett field goal with the wind behind him. No matter now, just wanted to get another opinion.
     As far as the balance of the season, it would be great to get a shot at Cortland, I think it would be a real opportunity for this young team and for the Seniors to go out on a positive note.

[Oline89]

If Hobart beats SLU I think you see them at Cortland on 11/17 b/c IC takes the ECAC bid having already played them (like what happened in 2017).

Outside chance IC gets a Pool C by beating Cortland or does Muhlenberg have it? If IC does not make dance, I would think  they go for ECAC as you suggest. A Cortland -Hobart game would be awesome for Hobart to really measure where they have come since the drubbing by Bport in first week. They have to beat SLU though, who seems to have improved over the season.  If Hobart loses they finish 4-5 and 2-3 in the LL.  It would be the first losing season since Coach Cragg's first year in 1995. No pressure on DeWall .

I hope Hobart has a short memory, last week ended on a very sour note.  This young team has started to really come together the last 4 weeks (despite the results on the scoreboard). I also am looking forward to seeing a little more of our Freshman QB on the field, not sure if Hoffman's shoiulder is still injured, but he didn't have the zip on the ball that he has had in other games.  Cortland-Hobart would be a great match up

Oline,
    Not that it matters now, but wanted your opinion on the refs call where the Hofman pass was ruled a fumble. It looked live on Saturday like the throwing motion was started and I just watched it again on the Ithaca site and it looked to me that he started his throwing motion, then it was swatted by IC defender. It was a bang-bang play, but that was a pretty big turning point in the game. Hobart was close enough for a Hackett field goal with the wind behind him. No matter now, just wanted to get another opinion.
     As far as the balance of the season, it would be great to get a shot at Cortland, I think it would be a real opportunity for this young team and for the Seniors to go out on a positive note.

B-Man, I was in the stands as well, and also saw the play on video.  The refs did not blow a whistle, and credit to Ithaca, they jumped on the ball.  Hobart players were all around it and just reacted as if it were an incomplete pass.  That being said, back in the dark ages, before instant replay (where D3 remains stuck), anytime a pass went forward and passed the line of scrimmage, it was an incomplete pass.  It is a physical impossibility for the ball to travel 10 yards forward in the air on a fumble.  Hoffman was throwing the ball and the D-lineman hit his arm.  IMO Hobart got screwed on their one drive that had any momentum. 

[Bartman]

If Hobart beats SLU I think you see them at Cortland on 11/17 b/c IC takes the ECAC bid having already played them (like what happened in 2017).

Outside chance IC gets a Pool C by beating Cortland or does Muhlenberg have it? If IC does not make dance, I would think  they go for ECAC as you suggest. A Cortland -Hobart game would be awesome for Hobart to really measure where they have come since the drubbing by Bport in first week. They have to beat SLU though, who seems to have improved over the season.  If Hobart loses they finish 4-5 and 2-3 in the LL.  It would be the first losing season since Coach Cragg's first year in 1995. No pressure on DeWall .

I hope Hobart has a short memory, last week ended on a very sour note.  This young team has started to really come together the last 4 weeks (despite the results on the scoreboard). I also am looking forward to seeing a little more of our Freshman QB on the field, not sure if Hoffman's shoiulder is still injured, but he didn't have the zip on the ball that he has had in other games.  Cortland-Hobart would be a great match up

Oline,
    Not that it matters now, but wanted your opinion on the refs call where the Hofman pass was ruled a fumble. It looked live on Saturday like the throwing motion was started and I just watched it again on the Ithaca site and it looked to me that he started his throwing motion, then it was swatted by IC defender. It was a bang-bang play, but that was a pretty big turning point in the game. Hobart was close enough for a Hackett field goal with the wind behind him. No matter now, just wanted to get another opinion.
     As far as the balance of the season, it would be great to get a shot at Cortland, I think it would be a real opportunity for this young team and for the Seniors to go out on a positive note.

B-Man, I was in the stands as well, and also saw the play on video.  The refs did not blow a whistle, and credit to Ithaca, they jumped on the ball.  Hobart players were all around it and just reacted as if it were an incomplete pass.  That being said, back in the dark ages, before instant replay (where D3 remains stuck), anytime a pass went forward and passed the line of scrimmage, it was an incomplete pass.  It is a physical impossibility for the ball to travel 10 yards forward in the air on a fumble.  Hoffman was throwing the ball and the D-lineman hit his arm.  IMO Hobart got screwed on their one drive that had any momentum.

OK, I'm not crazy. The only problem is that after the interception it would have been third down and 24 to go. They probably would not have gotten a first down (but who knows), but they would have had a good chance for a field goal. I hate to see such a tight game be impacted by a bad call. Oh well, good luck to Ithaca.

[ITH radio]

It's release has been delayed but we got the clip of the pass / fumble and reviewed it in our "host chat" show, now due out tmw. It was a terrible call by the ref and definitively changed the game.

[Bartman]

ITH,
     I think you reported on your blog that the LL declined to participate in the NY State Bowl, why was this decided so late? I assume this was voted on by the football members? Do you have any additional information? If this is true, I guess this goes in the record books as the shortest running post season contest.

[Oline89]

ITH,
     I think you reported on your blog that the LL declined to participate in the NY State Bowl, why was this decided so late? I assume this was voted on by the football members? Do you have any additional information? If this is true, I guess this goes in the record books as the shortest running post season contest.

So, if I am interpreting this correctly, the LL declined to participate in the NY Bowl game, not the individual schools?  If it is LL, then we need new governance.  Not only is it depriving the LL team from attending the game, but it is totally screwing the Cortland team from playing a post season game.  If it is an individual school (Hobart!?) from sending a team, it is an equally pathetic and weak decision.  I have posted this before but will state it a again:  Football offseason/preseason and practice is miserable, long, and grueling.  Playing in a football game is an exhilarating, strenuous, and unique experience that is unequaled in any other sport.  It  happens only 9-10 times a year for the elite group of athletes that have spent the other 355 days preparing. 

[D3viewer]

Even tho the NY Bowl may be dead, it was kinda beset with issues from the beginning. Like last season, the spectre of Cortaca 2 loomed over the final results. This problem probably won't go away, as those 2 programs will most likely be in the running every year. Also, with the crossover of LL/E8 reg season games, the prospect of a new matchup was limited (no new information here). So, too bad for the prospective teams this season, but there may be an overall silver lining

If Brockport and RPI can get past their 1st round matchups in the NCAA tourney, we can be treated to a true NY Bowl, pitting the actual winners of the LL and E8 in a meaningful game. Made that much more interesting in that they haven't faced each other (in a long time ?). This is much more interesting game as far as I'm concerned. I was hoping RPI and Brockport would meet so the Upstate title can be incorporated into the National playoffs. Others may disagree, but I like the prospect of these 2 teams playing each other in the "true" NY Bowl game.

[Bombers798891]

Even tho the NY Bowl may be dead, it was kinda beset with issues from the beginning....with the crossover of LL/E8 reg season games, the prospect of a new matchup was limited (no new information here).

This. A million times this. Look, maybe IC was unique in this, and certainly playing Cortland again is different from playing Alfred twice, but 12 of the 23 non-conference games played by E8 teams this year were against LL teams. I'd be stunned if IC was the only program thinking a rematch wasn't in its best interest.

I know it will never happen, for all the obvious reasons, but the two conferences simply should become one conference, with two divisions, and have the 10th game be a conference title game.

[Oline89]

Even tho the NY Bowl may be dead, it was kinda beset with issues from the beginning....with the crossover of LL/E8 reg season games, the prospect of a new matchup was limited (no new information here).

This. A million times this. Look, maybe IC was unique in this, and certainly playing Cortland again is different from playing Alfred twice, but 12 of the 23 non-conference games played by E8 teams this year were against LL teams. I'd be stunned if IC was the only program thinking a rematch wasn't in its best interest.

I know it will never happen, for all the obvious reasons, but the two conferences simply should become one conference, with two divisions, and have the 10th game be a conference title game.

Nice concept, but why give up 2 automatic bids  to the NCAAs?  If rules are changed to give the automatic bid to 8 member leagues only, then make the super conference.  Regarding the NY State Bowl, since all the AD's, HCOF's agreed to this 2 years ago, find a way to get it done.  Are the NE, MAC and Centennial Conference teams really more committed to their players, parents and fans than LL or E8?  If we prefer the NESCAC model, then fine.  Just don't commit to something you are not going to see to completion (I sound like a football coach in preseason!!!).

[ITH radio]

Tracy relayed to us that he'd have to cancel his appearance on our show to announce the game b/c IC was passing on playing Cortland again (which they obviously did and took the ECAC bid we previewed earlier today), Hobart was passing on the game and Union hadn't planned on getting the bid so they weren't planning on playing either.

Not sure why Brian Miller would renege on it, especially since we know there was money set aside for the game if Hobart made it. Saying it was for financial or other reasons isn't accurate in my opinion. Honestly, it's a shame that the players, especially the seniors don't get that 10th and one extra game.

2010 was a pretty bad year for the Statesmen, but with this mess at the back end, probably takes it.

[Bombers798891]

Nice concept, but why give up 2 automatic bids  to the NCAAs?   

This is the obvious reason why I know it will never happen.

Regarding the NY State Bowl, since all the AD's, HCOF's agreed to this 2 years ago, find a way to get it done. Just don't commit to something you are not going to see to completion (I sound like a football coach in preseason!!!).

What transpired would seem to indicate that, in fact, there wasn't universal agreement/commitment from coaches or ADs. This wasn't just IC balking at "Cortaca II". (Which is really a whole different thing, that really anyone could have seen was going to be an issue).

[Bartman]

Tracy relayed to us that he'd have to cancel his appearance on our show to announce the game b/c IC was passing on playing Cortland again (which they obviously did and took the ECAC bid we previewed earlier today), Hobart was passing on the game and Union hadn't planned on getting the bid so they weren't planning on playing either.

Not sure why Brian Miller would renege on it, especially since we know there was money set aside for the game if Hobart made it. Saying it was for financial or other reasons isn't accurate in my opinion. Honestly, it's a shame that the players, especially the seniors don't get that 10th and one extra game.

2010 was a pretty bad year for the Statesmen, but with this mess at the back end, probably takes it.

ITH,
    I assume you meant 2018 and not 2010, for the "pretty bad year". I think this is rather a harsh assessment(although maybe you intended it for the administration issues on homecoming and the NYS Bowl) ....true Endicott was a bad loss and Brockport played a perfect game against Hobart. But this team has improved over the season on both sides of the ball( The defense was particularly strong in the IC game) and were close in both the RPI and IC games despite some bad calls against us at  critical times in both games.I think we will see some significant improvement in the win column next year.

[ITH radio]

2010 and 2018 were "pretty bad years" to me in terms of the team ending up with 5-4 records and having to deal with a couple of internal team issues. The good news after the 2010 season was those issues were worked out and the team went on a pretty amazing run. I'm hopeful we'll see that in 2019.

This August I predicted Hobart would go 6-3 in the preseason kickoff rankings based on how much turnover and youth there was on the roster, especially compared to some SR heavy teams like BP, RPI and IC. Finishing below that mark, to me, is not a "good year", even if the team made overall strides, which they obviously did.

That said Hobart was only a few plays away from being 9-1, and while the Endicott loss stings the most, at the end of the day, the Gulls actually are one of the better NE teams (which Kevin deserves credit for helping to build), so it should be looked at with some perspective.

I agree with you that the 2018 Statesmen team steadily improved over the course of the season and probably would have had a very good shot of beating Cortland and being 6-4 if given the chance to play them on Saturday. The administration's handling of Homecoming and the Bowl game should be harshly criticized however. If I was an opposing coach I'd point these things out to a player I was after and convince them Hobart isn't serious about football. We know that's not the case, which is why the bowl decision is even more vexing.

Coach DeWall and his staff had a lot of overcome based on what I witnessed in person at the BP game. The job they've done getting this team better each week has been great to see, but at the end of the day, the W/L record is what it is. We know the Statesmen have the potential to be better, but I'm sorry if this does come off as harsh, but 5-4 isn't good enough (and I'm sure it's not for the coaching staff either, they hate to lose more than any of us, I'm sure).

So while I'm disappointed how things turned out this season - some kick in the gut losses, bad refs, no-10th game or homecoming game opportunity, bailing on a viable bowl game the week before after the HC is telling the kids they'll have a shot to play in it - I am optimistic for the future of the program.

The only caveat is this is assuming the new leadership that's coming to HWS gives Kevin chances to go out and be successful. So far the "leadership" I've seen since Gearan moved on has me really concerned, honestly.

[Bartman]

Well, I opened this topic, and I think it is time to close it. Unfortunately, while the idea was worthy, the execution has had many issues( Ithaca and Cortland not wanting to play agin, ECAC alternative or perhaps teams that just feel the NCAAs are the real prize). I think the LL coaches and ADs need to either commit or focus on the ECACs. As a fan, I love to see the season extended, but it should be about the student athletes and not me. As a Hobart fan I am now of the opinion that it should be the LL title and the NCAAs or bust. Team excellence often runs in cycles, and Hobart certainly has had its share over the last 20 years and I hope it will return to the league title because based on the talent returning and DeWall and staff recruiting efforts (heck, the next Marpet or Coleman may be in the pipeline now),  we should be the favorite in 2019. I think it is best for the LL to have as many competitive teams as possible and fight for the title, just as it was this year. The NCAA tournament appearance is the goal , IMHO. Congratulations to RPI for reaching the goal and good luck in the NCAAs. 

[ITH radio]

I agree the member schools need to decide and commit to it either way. IMO, the NCAA or bust is a bad option for a program when there was a sanctioned and agreed upon game by the member schools of the LL. Maybe it'll be easier to coordinate next season with Buff St in, but who knows?

I don't think Hobart should "excuse itself" from participating if the game is retained as it'll detract from recruiting and building a stronger program. Another week of practice and game against Cortland tmw would have been a great experience, win or lose. The school is hurting it's own student athletes with this take it or leave it stance.