The Big Dance

[Gregory Sager]

Perhaps they like chicken wings.

[Part_Bart]

Well: the English coach uses his contacts well.
Seems like the athletic department is allowing this to happen, which is a bit atypical.
More typical to see at most one or two international students on a roster (e.g., http://athletics.dyc.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/roster - also in Buffalo and drawing from within the region, but has none)
And public colleges and universities (who typically have less flexibility to discount tuition/costs, typically have fewer international players on their roster (e.g., http://www.buffalostateathletics.com/roster.aspx?path=msoc -- a SUNYAC school that draws from across NY)

Focusing on Medaille, and looking to collegefactual.com and the US News and World Report data (both drawing from and supplementing the data collected by and shared from the US Department of Education), it seems the typical Medaille student pays about half of the listed tuition (indeed, most private college and universities are discounting 40+% of tuition, using a combination of grants and federally subsidized loans). Not hard to shave down a bit more cost and suddenly the cost is not all that different from the costs for college in England (which don't have the college sports)....

Many small colleges (and particularly private colleges) see D3 sports as a vehicle to help draw students TO their college. My back of the envelope analysis is that Medaille is part of conference (AMCC) where most schools enroll between 1500-3000 students and from 1/5 to 1/3 of these students are part of a varsity sports team.  A strong sports program is a draw to parents and students, generating both (some) tuition dollars and additional development opportunities (e.g, in support of facilities).

Worth noting that getting a degree in the US may provide these young men more opportunities than might be available in their home country, or allow them to expand their range of opportunities.

And, as noted, access to great chicken wings  is clearly a factor@

I'm not sure if its cynical to wonder WHY this is happening, or if this adds real value (or even covers costs).... 

Re: NESCAC schools. Pretty sure they offer D3 sports as a means of expanding and magnifying the college experience for the students they select to attend these institutions (and for many applicants, excellent sports are one more draw to apply for and attend).....

[truenorth]

That's a good analysis Part Bart.

As you're probably aware, only a fraction of high school students in the UK go on to university.  Many end up on vocational tracks.  So if a UK high school graduate perceives there's commercial value in going to a U.S. college, it's unlikely Dad and Mum are picking up much of the tab for travel, tuition, room and board.  I have no idea whether colleges like Medaille are offering larger grants to international students who play a sport vs. domestic students who don't play a sport...

Regarding the NESCAC schools, they are strongly committed to creating diverse campus communities, and international students are a big part of that effort.  That said, the vast majority of athletes on their teams are Americans, and to a smaller extent Canadians.

[Falconer]

Regarding foreign players in D3, many schools have them. Hopkins has an Asian national as their starting keeper, to give just one example that I saw with my own eyes--and he's really good.

How students finance their American educations is beyond me, except that he know many laced have specific scholarships for non-Americans. I know of a few schools where such scholarships are very large indeed. I don't know what Messiah does on that score.i  can't recall any foreign soccer players during the championship seasons or since, but perhaps I am forgetting someone.

[bestfancle]

Regarding foreign players in D3, many schools have them. Hopkins has an Asian national as their starting keeper, to give just one example that I saw with my own eyes--and he's really good.

How students finance their American educations is beyond me, except that he know many laced have specific scholarships for non-Americans. I know of a few schools where such scholarships are very large indeed. I don't know what Messiah does on that score.i  can't recall any foreign soccer players during the championship seasons or since, but perhaps I am forgetting someone.

Don't know how it is with all schools. JCU, as a Jesuit Catholic university, offers equal straight tuition to a couple of Jesuit Universities in Europe. This allows JCU students to study there for an extended periods of time as well as students from other countries coming over. I believe JCU has a player from Spain.

That being said, these students typically come from wealthy families abroad, they plan on staying a semester, but end up liking it and staying for their playing careers.

[JHU Fan]

Regarding the NESCAC schools, they are strongly committed to creating diverse campus communities, and international students are a big part of that effort.  That said, the vast majority of athletes on their teams are Americans, and to a smaller extent Canadians.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but Canadians ARE Americans!  I'm just sayin' . . .

[Mr.Right]

That is absolutely RIDICULOUS. That is beyond a joke for a D3 school to have all those English guys on a roster. You only see something like that in D2 and it is slowly coming to a stop. That looks like a 1986 Southern Connecticut roster Ray Reid style...What a joke....I hope Medaille bows out FAST...Ofcourse the coach and his 5 assistants are blokes as well...AD at Medaille must have been suckered with the accent and suitcase...The English make Americans JUMP THRU HOOPS to even get a chance to play over there YET they send all these retread coaches and players here..Do not even get me going on this.

[firstplaceloser]

That is absolutely RIDICULOUS. That is beyond a joke for a D3 school to have all those English guys on a roster. You only see something like that in D2 and it is slowly coming to a stop. That looks like a 1986 Southern Connecticut roster Ray Reid style...What a joke....I hope Medaille bows out FAST...Ofcourse the coach and his 5 assistants are blokes as well...AD at Medaille must have been suckered with the accent and suitcase...The English make Americans JUMP THRU HOOPS to even get a chance to play over there YET they send all these retread coaches and players here..Do not


we played them first round 2012. their coach called their season "the toad to amazing" and many other things that were really ridiculous. he was also very arrogant and cocky but kids like that when visiting schools. they play a cake schedule and never have a strong showing in NCAAs

[luckylefty]

Some schools have international programs that allow kids to get scholarships to fund more of their experience. If you see a cluster of international kids on any d3 roster odds are the school has international money.

I also second the Medaille English connection being ridiculous. I can't see how that works long term and retention will be an absolute mess.

[Londoner]

Hi, I'm a long time reader, first time poster, so please take it easy on me.
Felt I had to pipe up as there was a lot of misinformation being put forward in regards to Medaille and international students in D3 soccer.
I'm originally from London, England, and played four years of D3 Soccer.
I played in four NCAA tournaments. The experiences I had here were ones I will treasure for the rest of my life.

The NCAA system is unlike anything else in the world. It is one of a kind. I believe you should be proud - as Americans - that student athletes from across the globe want to come and play here. The top level of D3 is an elite standard that should not be disrespected. Many of the elite D3 programs have D1 talent, but add the focus on academics. For an international student, to get a 1st rate degree, AND be able to play competitive soccer at a good level is incredibly attractive.

As far as scholarships etc go, many international students have a base "international" scholarship, and then add additional merit based, depending on their grades. It is certainly not just "all the rich kids." I would guess that many of those Medaille players are former Premier League (or lower league) academy kids who were cut. At that age, they don't want to give up their dream of playing pro, but need an education too. The ability to come to the US and chase both dreams is a fantastic option.

In response to Mr Right - whose posts I usually find informative and entertaining - I'm not sure what "hoops" you are referring to in the UK that Americans have to jump through. From first hand experience, it was a lot harder for me to get over here to play at college, than it has been for some Americans I've known to go to the UK for pro trials and try outs.

An internationally diverse program and team is something I was proud to be a part of and something that should be treasured and protected.

So I'm not cheering for or against Medaille, but don't think they should be picked on for providing a life changing opportunity for kids from across the world to change their lives.

[Londoner]

BUT... most importantly, let's enjoy the Tournament.
Congrats to Calvin and John Carroll on advancing tonight.
Should be a good game tomorrow.

[inlovewithplaid]

I get to go to a handful of Michigan State University men's soccer games each year. MSU is having a good year, and it has a couple of really good players. The Big Ten Conference has a few good programs, like Indiana, and now Maryland. I've seen a lot of D1 soccer come through East Lansing. I've also been following NESCAC soccer for the past four or five years, and D3 Michigan programs like Calvin. The elite D3 soccer stacks up to the D1s, in my opinion, and I have to say that I often find it more entertaining. And, also, while some D3 conferences and programs are stronger and weaker than others, the exact same thing can be said for D1 and 2. That's my take.

[Part_Bart]

BUT... most importantly, let's enjoy the Tournament.
Congrats to Calvin and John Carroll on advancing tonight.
Should be a good game tomorrow.

Thanks, Londoner, for the posts.  What you report from experience jives with what I've seen and been told about the participation of international students on U.S. College soccer teams.  This noted, the Medaille roster seems a little unbalanced in representation. The NCAA is dealing with this over-internationalization in a number of sports (swimming, water polo are two I know more about than some of the others) and one conversation is to limit the percentage of spots offered to non-US-based student-athletes. This will accelerate the trajectory of international students coming to the US to play at a Junior College for a year (and become US-based).  Sigh.

Luckily, most coaches see the opportunity in the same way you have outlined it -- an amazing way to close out one's organized soccer career and parlay this love of a game into a college degree. 

So, thanks, and please do say that you are an Arsenal fan so I feel good about standing with you!

[truenorth]

I myself am in for Liverpool!

[Falconer]

St Scholastica--the MN school that scored zillions of goals in recent seasons--has had a high percentage of English or other foreign players as long as I've followed them. This year they show 5 Brits, 2 Canadians, and 2 Mexicans. Coach Barry Chastey hails from England, where he played semi-pro soccer.

I checked this year's Falcon roster, b/c I know that David Alejos is listed as coming from Mexico. But, as I had thought, he graduated from Lancaster Mennonite HS, which is no more than 60 miles from campus. It's the same school that has produced half a dozen Falcons in the championship era, as well as one of the best players that Gordon College had recently. Not to mention Keegan Rosenberry, who played at D1 Georgetown before entering MLS.

I was thinking of Alejos as an American--and he might be an American citizen, for all I know.

The Ramirez brothers are a similar case. Their family is from Guatemala, and that is where they are from according to the rosters, but they graduated from a HS in Harrisburg PA. I wasn't counting them as foreign players for that reason, but you could.

I am still not thinking of any unambiguous examples from Falcon rosters in the championship years.