The Big Dance

[blooter442]

Amherst is still very young and I get the feeling UR is one of those inconsistent teams in which you never know what outfit will show up on the day. ConnCollege had them beat but totally blew it in the 81st minute and then lost it in OT. Still for UR to win at Oneonta the next day is impressive.

Spot on.

Amherst has had issues defensively -- surprising for a Serpone team -- but they did graduate the whole back four, so that's somewhat understandable. I like Derby and I think Hlinomaz is still very good, and Ajayi is a beast. They might not be as spectacular as in recent years but they are clearly very dangerous and gritty and will give Rochester as tough of a test as they've had this year. Rochester has solid team size, but I would think Amherst will score at least once, probably off a set piece.

I did not expect Rochester to do much this season after graduating four-year starters Greblick and Ben Swanger, and I really wasn't all that blown away by the guys they had returning, but they have proved me wrong. Granted, Rouin has been the majority of their offense this year, despite being held scoreless the last 4 games, but they have had other guys step up in recent games. Rouin himself has had a breakout year, scoring 12 this season alone after scoring 3 goals in his first 3 years. Clearly he has done major work on his finishing: last year, he had 2 goals on 40 shots (shot pct of .050); this year, 12 goals on 60 shots (shot pct of .200). That is a major improvement, I haven't seen many players do so little (comparatively speaking) in their first three years only to have a senior year in which they are in contention for All-American, although I'm sure it's happened. Regardless, that is impressive, and fair play to him.

As I've said numerous times, UR is a tough team to play against because they are athletic, fight to the end, and will be in your face the full 90 (or 110) minutes. They are much like a NESCAC side in that respect, probably the most similar of the UAA teams, although I've heard the opinion that Brandeis is cut from the same cloth, and I'd agree with that. Regardless, I'm sure Amherst will be a bit unperturbed by the battle shown by Rochester, but I also am not totally sure that Rochester is ready to handle the aerial threat and physicality that Amherst poses (athleticism and physicality are two different things IMHO). Should be a good one, and -- if it wasn't for Calvin/Chicago being in the same round -- this would be in with a shout for this year's marquee Sweet 16 game.

Over/under for yellow cards: 5

[Mr.Right]

2017 Final 4 Odds:

Calvin                    2-1
Messiah                  2-1
St.Thomas              4-1
Tufts                      8-1
Chicago                  10-1
Brandeis                 12-1
Amherst                 14-1
M.H.B.                    14-1
Rochester               14-1
Emory                    16-1
North Park              16-1
W & L                     18-1
Hopkins                  20-1
Drew                      20-1
Otterbein                35-1
Stevens                  35-1

[2xfaux]

Do we know why Messiah is playing the day games on Saturday instead of at night?

Shoemaker Field was a mess after the Messiah/Lycoming game in the rain a week ago.  Rain is expected again this Saturday and perhaps the hope is to get the games in before the field is a mess again.  This past weekend when the Messiah Women hosted the games were played on the Lacrosse field which is turf and has lights but no where near the seating capacity of Shoemaker.

(modified by GS for formatting)

[Mr.Right]

Amherst is still very young and I get the feeling UR is one of those inconsistent teams in which you never know what outfit will show up on the day. ConnCollege had them beat but totally blew it in the 81st minute and then lost it in OT. Still for UR to win at Oneonta the next day is impressive.

Spot on.

Amherst has had issues defensively -- surprising for a Serpone team -- but they did graduate the whole back four, so that's somewhat understandable. I like Derby and I think Hlinomaz is still very good, and Ajayi is a beast. They might not be as spectacular as in recent years but they are clearly very dangerous and gritty and will give Rochester as tough of a test as they've had this year. Rochester has solid team size, but I would think Amherst will score at least once, probably off a set piece.

I did not expect Rochester to do much this season after graduating four-year starters Greblick and Ben Swanger, and I really wasn't all that blown away by the guys they had returning, but they have proved me wrong. Granted, Rouin has been the majority of their offense this year, despite being held scoreless the last 4 games, but they have had other guys step up in recent games. Rouin himself has had a breakout year, scoring 12 this season alone after scoring 3 goals in his first 3 years. Clearly he has done major work on his finishing: last year, he had 2 goals on 40 shots (shot pct of .050); this year, 12 goals on 60 shots (shot pct of .200). That is a major improvement, I haven't seen many players do so little (comparatively speaking) in their first three years only to have a senior year in which they are in contention for All-American, although I'm sure it's happened. Regardless, that is impressive, and fair play to him.

As I've said numerous times, UR is a tough team to play against because they are athletic, fight to the end, and will be in your face the full 90 (or 110) minutes. They are much like a NESCAC side in that respect, probably the most similar of the UAA teams, although I've heard the opinion that Brandeis is cut from the same cloth, and I'd agree with that. Regardless, I'm sure Amherst will be a bit unperturbed by the battle shown by Rochester, but I also am not totally sure that Rochester is ready to handle the aerial threat and physicality that Amherst poses (athleticism and physicality are two different things IMHO). Should be a good one, and -- if it wasn't for Calvin/Chicago being in the same round -- this would be in with a shout for this year's marquee Sweet 16 game.

Over/under for yellow cards: 5

So you think this will be a borderline dirty/chippy game? It seems like UR is a hybrid because when I have seen them they can knock the ball around a bit especially against skilled UAA sides. I caught most of the game with Conn and really did not notice them playing overly physical in that match. It was surprisingly a rather fluid affair.

[Mr.Right]

Do we know why Messiah is playing the day games on Saturday instead of at night?

Shoemaker Field was a mess after the Messiah/Lycoming game in the rain a week ago.  Rain is expected again this Saturday and perhaps the hope is to get the games in before the field is a mess again.  This past weekend when the Messiah Women hosted the games were played on the Lacrosse field which is turf and has lights but no where near the seating capacity of Shoemaker.

This is a more reasonable answer. Weather and field conditions make more sense to me

(modified by GS for formatting)

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Do we know why Messiah is playing the day games on Saturday instead of at night?

I highly suspect because men's and women's basketball have tournaments that weekend with games throughout the day on Saturday... maybe it took less of a burden on staff and resources to do day games instead of night games. It appears the soccer games are early enough to keep the overlap at a minimum.

Your kidding me right? Are you saying Basketball/ staffing is dictating this? There must be another reason

I don't think anything is being "dictated" at all... we are in cross-over season and small college campuses and athletic departments have a lot going on sometimes. I have run 8-team basketball tournaments while there is a football game, ice hockey games, and even volleyball games all either home or away to consider ... there is only so much man power.

I do feel they are playing the soccer games earlier to adjust for man-power on campus on the weekend prior to thanksgiving. I have seen that a number of schools. There are only so many SIDs, ADs, and other staff available not to mention security and other staffing the campus may have in place.

I also know that the non-light schedule from the NCAA says tournament games are to be played at 11:00am and 1:30pm on Saturday followed by 1:00pm on Sunday. So Messiah is using the non-light schedule. My guess is because of their busy day. I think they are doing it based on the following home schedule:

11:00 am - MSOC: Stevens vs Messiah
1:30 pm - MSOC: Rochester vs Amherst
12:00 pm - M&W SWIM vs. Lycoming
1:00 pm - MBB: Tournament consolation game
3:00 pm - MBB: Tournament championship game
5:00 pm - WBB: vs. Geneseo

If they went by the NCAA schedule for lights, they would have a game at 5pm and 7:30pm. That would interfere with the women's basketball game (I noticed the men's soccer game has less likelihood of interfering with the men's basketball game probably at 3:00pm; they very well could be trying to make it easier for Messiah sports fans to see all the games.)

Also, if they use the light schedule, it forces a game to be played at 7:00 pm on Sunday. I am willing to bet that was not the schedule anyone wants to play, so they are going without lights.

(Post edit: the field and weather could be factors; the weather is expected to be rainy as previously mentioned and it is expected to get pretty cold at night.)

BTW - also not featured on that schedule at Messiah this weekend: women's soccer on the road, Field Hockey at the national championship weekend in Kentucky, Cross Country at the national championships in Illinois, and wrestling on the road in Alliance, Ohio (I assume at Mount Union).

I think Messiah has a ton on their plate and they are doing what they can with it. The schedule makes sense for a TON of reasons.

[blooter442]

So you think this will be a borderline dirty/chippy game? It seems like UR is a hybrid because when I have seen them they can knock the ball around a bit especially against skilled UAA sides. I caught most of the game with Conn and really did not notice them playing overly physical in that match. It was surprisingly a rather fluid affair.

I think so. Apple isn't quite in the same class as Serpone in terms of sideline histrionics, but he has been known to work the refs from the sidelines and spent several minutes complaining about a no-call in the box at Brandeis last year (to be fair to him, I think he did have a point). Much like Wiercinski -- not over the top by any means, but he'll definitely let you know when he disagrees. As for UR as a team, they are a feisty bunch and I suspect that, given Amherst's physicality, they will get riled up when the Mammoths go hard into the tackle and may react poorly. Of course, these are all just my opinions, but having watched lots of both teams there are numerous reasons that I think this will be a good match (and have some fireworks).

[Mr.Right]

I hear what you are saying but come NCAA time you do have plenty of NCAA reps on site. It is not fully dependent on Messiah staffers and IIRC Messiah when hosting any NCAA rounds in past years have always been at night..

[Mr.Right]

So you think this will be a borderline dirty/chippy game? It seems like UR is a hybrid because when I have seen them they can knock the ball around a bit especially against skilled UAA sides. I caught most of the game with Conn and really did not notice them playing overly physical in that match. It was surprisingly a rather fluid affair.

I think so. Apple isn't quite in the same class as Serpone in terms of sideline histrionics, but he has been known to work the refs from the sidelines and spent several minutes complaining about a no-call in the box at Brandeis last year (to be fair to him, I think he did have a point). Much like Wiercinski -- not over the top by any means, but he'll definitely let you know when he disagrees. As for UR as a team, they are a feisty bunch and I suspect that, given Amherst's physicality, they will get riled up when the Mammoths go hard into the tackle and may react poorly. Of course, these are all just my opinions, but having watched lots of both teams there are numerous reasons that I think this will be a good match (and have some fireworks).

Fair enough. You are probably right. Do we have a scout on UR...System? GK? playmakers? How will they adjust to Messiah's field size? Stuff like that

[Mr.Right]

How about Drew? Anyone have any idea about what Drew will be playing? If they took down Lycoming than they must be able to deal with physicality and pressing rather well. The Brandeis v Drew match has all the makings of an extremely tight one goal game

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I hear what you are saying but come NCAA time you do have plenty of NCAA reps on site. It is not fully dependent on Messiah staffers and IIRC Messiah when hosting any NCAA rounds in past years have always been at night..

You do NOT have plenty of NCAA reps on site. You have one. Just one. And they are not people who carry keys to unlock doors on Messiah's campus let alone have any familiarity with the campus. Hosting NCAA tournaments is absolutely fully dependent of the schools hosting. This is Division III. Heck, that is the way it is for much of the NCAA outside of the big events like March Madness. Schools put in to host and then it is on them to host. The only NCAA "staffer" is actually a committee member, regional or national (sometimes from outside the region even; or someone else if there are conflicts).

Maybe it has been always at night (though, I would like to check that), but there are always different situations in place. Remember, there was a long time when Messiah wouldn't play on Sundays (as they don't during the regular season) and that meant Friday/Saturday games. They changed that rule on their campus and thus other things have changed.

[Mr.Right]

I hear what you are saying but come NCAA time you do have plenty of NCAA reps on site. It is not fully dependent on Messiah staffers and IIRC Messiah when hosting any NCAA rounds in past years have always been at night..

You do NOT have plenty of NCAA reps on site. You have one. Just one. And they are not people who carry keys to unlock doors on Messiah's campus let alone have any familiarity with the campus. Hosting NCAA tournaments is absolutely fully dependent of the schools hosting. This is Division III. Heck, that is the way it is for much of the NCAA outside of the big events like March Madness. Schools put in to host and then it is on them to host. The only NCAA "staffer" is actually a committee member, regional or national (sometimes from outside the region even; or someone else if there are conflicts).

Maybe it has been always at night (though, I would like to check that), but there are always different situations in place. Remember, there was a long time when Messiah wouldn't play on Sundays (as they don't during the regular season) and that meant Friday/Saturday games. They changed that rule on their campus and thus other things have changed.

I believe they had significant pressure from the NCAA to change the Fri/Sat because coaches were getting pissed that Former Coach Dave Brandt was scouting the Sunday games after his team had advanced, mind you this was all before streaming was available

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I hear what you are saying but come NCAA time you do have plenty of NCAA reps on site. It is not fully dependent on Messiah staffers and IIRC Messiah when hosting any NCAA rounds in past years have always been at night..

You do NOT have plenty of NCAA reps on site. You have one. Just one. And they are not people who carry keys to unlock doors on Messiah's campus let alone have any familiarity with the campus. Hosting NCAA tournaments is absolutely fully dependent of the schools hosting. This is Division III. Heck, that is the way it is for much of the NCAA outside of the big events like March Madness. Schools put in to host and then it is on them to host. The only NCAA "staffer" is actually a committee member, regional or national (sometimes from outside the region even; or someone else if there are conflicts).

Maybe it has been always at night (though, I would like to check that), but there are always different situations in place. Remember, there was a long time when Messiah wouldn't play on Sundays (as they don't during the regular season) and that meant Friday/Saturday games. They changed that rule on their campus and thus other things have changed.

I believe they had significant pressure from the NCAA to change the Fri/Sat because coaches were getting pissed that Former Coach Dave Brandt was scouting the Sunday games after his team had advanced, mind you this was all before streaming was available

I don't buy that... remember it was a school-wide decision since all post-season tournaments are affected. They didn't make the change just in soccer. Plus the fact, Calvin and Hope still have the same rule in affect along with a lot of other schools. Sure, people can claim it was something about scouting... but they were still a non-Sunday playing school after streaming started. Decisions like these have a lot of ramifications when it comes to tournaments when you won't play on Sundays. Messiah decided to change it to ease up on their end. If there was a problem with scouting, they have other ways to handle that like post-season suspensions and bans. It has happened elsewhere for other reasons.

[blooter442]

Fair enough. You are probably right. Do we have a scout on UR...System? GK? playmakers? How will they adjust to Messiah's field size? Stuff like that

In past they have played 4-3-3, but this year seems to be more of a 4-3-2-1 with Rouin at the top. Pretty much the same setup with the striker a bit further up. They try to spring him a lot, he's got some wheels. They do not have any real dynamos in midfield or playmakers, but they are very good in terms of positional awareness. Goalkeeper is solid but not spectacular.

As for the field, interesting question. I think they will use the extra space well, but while Amherst likes narrow fields I do think Amherst will be better suited to the surface. We can say they're even in terms of having to adapt to that.

How about Drew? Anyone have any idea about what Drew will be playing? If they took down Lycoming than they must be able to deal with physicality and pressing rather well. The Brandeis v Drew match has all the makings of an extremely tight one goal game

No idea about system, but they definitely have some size based on the look I had at their roster and reading a few game recaps. Cserhat at CF is 6-5 and 200 so I can imagine they might be trying to hit him on crosses against the Brandeis CBs who are 6' and 5'10".

[Gregory Sager]

I hear what you are saying but come NCAA time you do have plenty of NCAA reps on site. It is not fully dependent on Messiah staffers and IIRC Messiah when hosting any NCAA rounds in past years have always been at night..

You do NOT have plenty of NCAA reps on site. You have one. Just one. And they are not people who carry keys to unlock doors on Messiah's campus let alone have any familiarity with the campus. Hosting NCAA tournaments is absolutely fully dependent of the schools hosting. This is Division III. Heck, that is the way it is for much of the NCAA outside of the big events like March Madness. Schools put in to host and then it is on them to host. The only NCAA "staffer" is actually a committee member, regional or national (sometimes from outside the region even; or someone else if there are conflicts).

Maybe it has been always at night (though, I would like to check that), but there are always different situations in place. Remember, there was a long time when Messiah wouldn't play on Sundays (as they don't during the regular season) and that meant Friday/Saturday games. They changed that rule on their campus and thus other things have changed.

D-Mac is spot on. Staffing resources in light of the beginning of basketball season are the likely driver behind schools scheduling playoff soccer matches. I can state for a fact that that's why NPU is holding afternoon contests on Saturday rather than on Saturday night. If John Born had his druthers, the Vikes would be playing at night. But he understands, just like the rest of us at NPU, that there's only so much staff and so many physical resources (from laptops to power strips to microphones) to go around. As it is, NPU is going to have to run the soccer matches while there's a women's basketball tournament being played elsewhere on campus; the alternative was to schedule at night, when the men's basketball team will be hosting a tournament.