The Big Dance

[1970s NESCAC Player]

I think he came in around 4:15 mile?  That's pretty darn good.

I hate to say I doubt it, but 4:15 is a really, really good time for a runner, let alone a soccer player. I was an All-Conference X-C runner in high school yet only a 4:42 miler, and while I was better at long distance (5K and up was my forte) I can tell you that the only track guy in our conference who ran a 4:15 mile ended up running at Dartmouth.

I could see a 4:50, maybe even 4:40. That said, if he was running 4:15, I would assume he'd be running track at Messiah as well as playing soccer.

Yes, a 4:15 mile would make him a better track athlete than soccer player.  A true untrained 4:15 runner would be somewhat of a freak of nature with the potential to be world class if properly trained.

[Gregory Sager]

Good call yesterday, Mr. Sager.

Thanks! Much appreciated.

It was difficult to tell through the audio if it was just a couple of loud Tommy fans, or if they had a good travel contingency, because there was a LOT of complaining after every call. So, obviously, the Vikings had a loud crowd, but it sure seemed like the visitors had a vocal group, as well.

The Tommies had a pretty good traveling group of fans, about eighty to a hundred in all, but they were the sort of families-and-girlfriends contingent that typically follows a team on the road. NPU had somewhere between 800 and 900 fans there (the posted attendance of 1,411 seems very high), and a big chunk of the NPU fan section consisted of students (including their brigade of rowdies, Foster's Finest, which did a great job of keeping up the noise level for the entire 90 minutes). I think that the reason why the UST fans sounded so prominent on the broadcast is that the most vocal handful of them were clustered in the top row just below the press box and down toward the rail at midfield, which meant that they were the closest in proximity to the two cameras (and, thus, the two camera mics). That's the problem with broadcasts -- you can't always get a good gauge on crowd composition based upon sound, because that's dependent upon the placement of the field mics. The people who were standing on the far sidelines along the benches noted what a tremendous amount of noise the NPU faithful were generating, and they said that whatever they heard from the UST fans was sparse and intermittent.

Whatever was going on, both teams started to boil over down the stretch. It was entertaining to watch, and I actually thought the ref did a decent job keeping a lid on the game.

I think that he did what he had to do to manage the game as far as bookings were concerned, aside from booking the wrong guy in one instance (NPU's Peder Olsen got a yellow in the 82nd minute that his teammate, Shatil Khoury, should've gotten instead). I didn't think he called a consistent game, foul-wise, although he was very even-handed in his inconsistency. I'm just happy that the craziness after the match didn't result in somebody in a purple kit taking a swing at him. You can see just a glimpse of it if you watch the game replay on NPU's Facebook page before the producer cut to the other camera, but when Shae Bottum verbally unloaded on the ref in the handshake line he looked like he was about to imitate the guy in the movie Scanners whose head exploded.

[rudy]

I think he came in around 4:15 mile?  That's pretty darn good.

I hate to say I doubt it, but 4:15 is a really, really good time for a runner, let alone a soccer player. I was an All-Conference X-C runner in high school yet only a 4:42 miler, and while I was better at long distance (5K and up was my forte) I can tell you that the only track guy in our conference who ran a 4:15 mile ended up running at Dartmouth.

I could see a 4:50, maybe even 4:40. That said, if he was running 4:15, I would assume he'd be running track at Messiah as well as playing soccer.

Yes, a 4:15 mile would make him a better track athlete than soccer player.  A true untrained 4:15 runner would be somewhat of a freak of nature with the potential to be world class if properly trained.

Messiah wants all players to run a sub 5 minute mile. My son  is around 445 for the pre season run after some training. Nick beats him by a lot. From what I hear the kid can run at a fast pace the whole mile and never slows up. So I think 415 is accurate within a free seconds. Maybe 420.

[lastguyoffthebench]

All about technique and training.  Never had blazing speed, but I could run a 445-450 mile.  That was basically my all out pace...

Also did XC and ran about 620-630 pace at best for 5 milers.

Is West faster than Jack Thompson from a few seasons ago?

[blooter442]

Messiah wants all players to run a sub 5 minute mile. My son  is around 445 for the pre season run after some training. Nick beats him by a lot. From what I hear the kid can run at a fast pace the whole mile and never slows up. So I think 415 is accurate within a free seconds. Maybe 420.

Just for kicks (no pun intended), I found a couple of 5K results with his name on them. 17:45 from his senior year of high school and 18:03 from 2016. That comes out to roughly 5:45 and 5:50 per mile, respectively, so he definitely has some endurance, but in my experience a guy running 4:20 would most likely be around 16 (or below) for 5K, so I can't say I'm totally sold.

Who knows, though? Maybe he is that fast! Apparently his sister was an All-American runner at Susquehanna and ran a 4:54 mile herself (as well as a 2:12 800 and 59 400), so it certainly runs in the family (again, no pun intended). If nothing else, from what I have seen of him, he appears to be quicker than pretty much all the players on the field in a given game and definitely has superior endurance. And my skepticism isn't to say it isn't possible, but rather that (having been a competitive runner and known how difficult it is to run sub-5) I've heard countless people over the years say "yeah, that guy ran like a 4:30 mile [in high school soccer tryouts]" when in fact the kid actually ran 5:20. Hey, both are evidence of great athleticism, but they are levels apart.

[Falconer]

I think he came in around 4:15 mile?  That's pretty darn good.

I hate to say I doubt it, but 4:15 is a really, really good time for a runner, let alone a soccer player. I was an All-Conference X-C runner in high school yet only a 4:42 miler, and while I was better at long distance (5K and up was my forte) I can tell you that the only track guy in our conference who ran a 4:15 mile ended up running at Dartmouth.

I could see a 4:50, maybe even 4:40. That said, if he was running 4:15, I would assume he'd be running track at Messiah as well as playing soccer.

Yes, a 4:15 mile would make him a better track athlete than soccer player.  A true untrained 4:15 runner would be somewhat of a freak of nature with the potential to be world class if properly trained.

Messiah wants all players to run a sub 5 minute mile. My son  is around 445 for the pre season run after some training. Nick beats him by a lot. From what I hear the kid can run at a fast pace the whole mile and never slows up. So I think 415 is accurate within a free seconds. Maybe 420.

If so, that's a spectacular time for a soccer player at any level, including professional. I am sceptical. Your son is certainly in a better place to know what Nick can do in the mile, Rudy, but I am still sceptical. Referring to the official trial when players report for the season, the best I am aware of in Falcon history is slightly under 4:40 on the part of J D Binger in the last decade. I know he does have HS track experience, and he is fast in the 5K, so I could certainly believe under 4:30, which would put him in an elite category for college soccer players. I don't believe 4:15, unless I see hard evidence of it.

[Falconer]

We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

[firstplaceloser]

All about technique and training.  Never had blazing speed, but I could run a 445-450 mile.  That was basically my all out pace...

Also did XC and ran about 620-630 pace at best for 5 milers.

Is West faster than Jack Thompson from a few seasons ago?

haha I was the complete opposite. I could run short distance faster than almost anyone I knew but long distance and I did not get along

[rudy]

We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'll see if I can confirm the time. 430 at least is likely accurate.. I thought closer to 420 but I could have heard wrong. Definitely better than 440 i.m sure of that.

[firstplaceloser]

We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'll see if I can confirm the time. 430 at least is likely accurate.. I thought closer to 420 but I could have heard wrong. Definitely better than 440 i.m sure of that.

not many outsiders even realize how impressive that is... anything under 5 is crazy

[Sherlock Holmes]

The highlights of both Falcon sectional games are now available on their home page. The best goal on Saturday--the brilliant shot off a fake free kick by Andrew Masur of Stevens--is unfortunately not included in the clip. That was unquestionably the highlight of the game for either team, and it should be on the video record: shame on the Falcons for not putting it into this highlight. I hope it shows up somewhere at some point.

I know we're in the midst of a mile-time discussion here (which I have no right to participate in, seeing as I'm likely slower than any DIII player in history), but I didn't want to let this go unmentioned. The people responsible for creating highlight packages (if we're talking about the same clips) wear so many different hats at the Division III level that they have way better things to do than include opponent plays in their own highlights. I think it was discussed elsewhere on this board, but it looks like Messiah had 8 teams in action Saturday, including a four-team basketball tournament at home. That means tons of work for a small staff of 3 or 4 people. And that's not to even mention that these highlight packages are mostly designed to promote and highlight Messiah; them including Stevens' or any other opponent's good plays does little to further that.
The folks at Stevens almost certainly have access to the very same game film - if they want a highlight out there of a spectacular goal, there's no reason they can't post a highlight themselves.

FYI Falconer, I'm not trying to just be contrarian or picky here. Would it be great to have a replay of that goal? Absolutely! I just think "they should be ashamed of themselves" is a little harsh. 

[rudy]

All about technique and training.  Never had blazing speed, but I could run a 445-450 mile.  That was basically my all out pace...

Also did XC and ran about 620-630 pace at best for 5 milers.

Is West faster than Jack Thompson from a few seasons ago?

haha I was the complete opposite. I could run short distance faster than almost anyone I knew but long distance and I did not get along

I can relate. No way I would make the under 5 minute mile requirement. Under 10 sounds about right for me. My son is pretty fast.. and has endurance..he has to train the mile a good month before training season to get under 5.  He can't get close to Nick in the mile..I was surprised myself.  I'm sure he could run track at Messiah if he wanted to.

[Falconer]

The highlights of both Falcon sectional games are now available on their home page. The best goal on Saturday--the brilliant shot off a fake free kick by Andrew Masur of Stevens--is unfortunately not included in the clip. That was unquestionably the highlight of the game for either team, and it should be on the video record: shame on the Falcons for not putting it into this highlight. I hope it shows up somewhere at some point.

I know we're in the midst of a mile-time discussion here (which I have no right to participate in, seeing as I'm likely slower than any DIII player in history), but I didn't want to let this go unmentioned. The people responsible for creating highlight packages (if we're talking about the same clips) wear so many different hats at the Division III level that they have way better things to do than include opponent plays in their own highlights. I think it was discussed elsewhere on this board, but it looks like Messiah had 8 teams in action Saturday, including a four-team basketball tournament at home. That means tons of work for a small staff of 3 or 4 people. And that's not to even mention that these highlight packages are mostly designed to promote and highlight Messiah; them including Stevens' or any other opponent's good plays does little to further that.
The folks at Stevens almost certainly have access to the very same game film - if they want a highlight out there of a spectacular goal, there's no reason they can't post a highlight themselves.

FYI Falconer, I'm not trying to just be contrarian or picky here. Would it be great to have a replay of that goal? Absolutely! I just think "they should be ashamed of themselves" is a little harsh. 

Your rebuke is justified, Mr Holmes, your argument well made. I withdraw that part of my post with apologies to the folks who prepare the clips. Thanks for defending them. +K.

(I recall seeing some opponent goals in those clips from time to time, few as impressive as that goal by Stevens, but I'm sure you're right about having to keep it short and sweet under the circumstances.)

[rudy]

We talked about mile speed a few months ago somewhere, and I mentioned that my own athletic background was HS & collegiate track & XC. I'm not going to talk about my own times here, except that no Falcon player as a collegian (obviously) has ever gone as fast as I did as a 16-year old HS runner nearly fifty years ago. I affirm there is an enormous difference between running 4:45 and running even 4:30, let alone 4:15 in the mile. Enormous. If anyone in NCAA soccer can run 4:15, then they are almost certainly also running track. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I would just love to see it. As some might recall, we discussed the Williams player who is a high level decathlete, but his 1500 time (not mile) doesn't translate even to 4:30 for the mile, let alone 4:15. He was the best candidate anyone produced at that time.

I'll see if I can confirm the time. 430 at least is likely accurate.. I thought closer to 420 but I could have heard wrong. Definitely better than 440 i.m sure of that.

not many outsiders even realize how impressive that is... anything under 5 is crazy

It was 4:33 this year I just confirmed.  I knew it was fast...not quite 4:15-4:20 but that is not training specifically year round for the mile so that is quite impressive.   

[blooter442]

It was 4:33 this year I just confirmed.  I knew it was fast...not quite 4:15-4:20 but that is not training specifically year round for the mile so that is quite impressive.

That is believable, and very impressive! Might be the fastest miler in D3 soccer (of course, superlative mile times are not what soccer players care about, but still).