2018 NCAA Tournament

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

How does the split role end up working out?

They played about 1/3 or something of their schedule against DIII and usually got an exemption from the NCAA to remained qualified for at-large bids. However, each May they had to decide for the following academic year what championships they wanted to be eligible for and get that exemption. In the last few years, at least, of their duality, they started to basically forgo the DIII exemptions and not worry about it. Eventually they decided the duality wasn't for them and went all in with DIII. Leaving NAIA completely behind.

I think it was a wise decision. They are in a good conference, they don't have the same financial burden (or at least turned that money towards other things). I think it duality worked for awhile, but not in the last 15 years and they finally decided the smarter course of action for themselves - especially when they saw it was more and more popular for NAIAs to leave for DIII anyway.

[Gregory Sager]

Others that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

[Riley056]

Thanks Dave! Always on top of it as usual!

[BobbyO]

Interesting thing for Augustana next game.  If Augie wins they beat every team this season that they lost to.  Oshkosh beat them early at Oshkosh in double overtime.  This game may be the game that makes a National Champ.  Two years ago St. Thomas beat Augie in the elite eight and then went on to win it all.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Others that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

So back to my comment about the Commonwealth... the SUNYAC has been very competitive from top to bottom most years. They do produce pretty good teams. Plattsburgh didn't look great tonight, but they are a better team than tonight showed. Plattsburgh also stopped one of the best offensive tandems in New England in the first round.

But again, I think the SUNYAC has for years had a very good conference from top to bottom. The top isn't the only metric I use (as I have shown). Sometimes just getting through conference play because of how good the bottom is is something to be considered. The SUNYAC hasn't been as strong the last few years and that's why I think it may not belong in the top ten now, but I feel it has been part of the conversation.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Interesting thing for Augustana next game.  If Augie wins they beat every team this season that they lost to.  Oshkosh beat them early at Oshkosh in double overtime.  This game may be the game that makes a National Champ.  Two years ago St. Thomas beat Augie in the elite eight and then went on to win it all.

A few teams have beaten Augie, in Rock Island especially, and gone on to titles I think (WashU?)... it was one of those things we talked about... when will Augie get out of Rock Island and be that team that wins it all. They finally did it a few years ago and now seem to be the most consistent in the NCAA tournament (last year was nuts).

Hats off to be sure... but tomorrow night should be epic.

[Mr. Ypsi]

It occurred to me this evening that the Elite Eight contains only FIVE ranked teams (from the last pre-tourney poll): #1, 9,14,19,24.  Did the pollsters have an off-week?  Have there been that many legitimate upsets?  Has parity gone stark-raving mad in D3?  I lean most heavily on the last option, but see some of each at work.  Comments?

[Smitty Oom]

Others that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

I am not the historian of D3 hoops quite like Greg (yet), but isn't the NJAC previously known for early bounces in the NCAA tourney as well?

I am extremely bias, but St. Thomas can probably bring the MIAC in the top 10 by themselves, not to mention Gustavus had a great run in most of the 2000s

[Gregory Sager]

Nebraska Wesleyan has a long and storied history as a D3 program. The Prairie Wolves (né the Plainsmen) have been to the Final Four on four previous occasions, finishing second once and third three times. They currently sport a 27-16 (.628) all-time record in the D3 tourney as of tonight's win, which is not too shabby.

Interesting thing for Augustana next game.  If Augie wins they beat every team this season that they lost to.  Oshkosh beat them early at Oshkosh in double overtime.  This game may be the game that makes a National Champ.  Two years ago St. Thomas beat Augie in the elite eight and then went on to win it all.

I know that you're an Augie fan, but, as far as this "may be the game that makes a national champ" business is concerned, I wouldn't go there if I were you. The Whitman vs. Nebraska Wesleyan winner is going to have a lot to say about who cuts down the net in Salem -- and the most impressive performance I saw tonight was by Swarthmore.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Others that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

I am not the historian of D3 hoops quite like Greg (yet), but isn't the NJAC previously known for early bounces in the NCAA tourney as well?

I am extremely bias, but St. Thomas can probably bring the MIAC in the top 10 by themselves, not to mention Gustavus had a great run in most of the 2000s

Totally forgot the MIAC - late night for my brain I guess. They should absolutely be in that conversation. Brain fart on my end, I guess. That conference has gotten darn good and easily would punt the NJAC, SUNYAC, Centennial, and others out of the conversation.

My thinking in the NJAC is the same as the SUNYAC... it isn't necessarily about the NCAA tournament. Yes. Struggled to get out of the first weekend (thankfully, Ramapo cleared it; may prove that when they get out NJAC teams are dangerous). However, they are also a damn competitive conference. There are no easy nights and there are no undefeated seasons usually.

[AndOne]

How does the split role end up working out?

For many years Nebraska Wesleyan was a member of an NAIA conference in which every single school in the conference other than NWU gave athletic scholarships. While they regularly competed with scholarship schools while holding dual NAIA/NCAA membership, they always adhered to the NCAA philosophy regarding athletic scholarships, and never awarded them. Their thinking on this subject was one of the reasons they ultimately decided to rescind their NAIA affiliation, and attach solely to the NCAA.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Nebraska Wesleyan has a long and storied history as a D3 program. The Prairie Wolves (né the Plainsmen) have been to the Final Four on four previous occasions, finishing second once and third three times. They currently sport a 27-16 (.628) all-time record in the D3 tourney as of tonight's win, which is not too shabby.

Interesting thing for Augustana next game.  If Augie wins they beat every team this season that they lost to.  Oshkosh beat them early at Oshkosh in double overtime.  This game may be the game that makes a National Champ.  Two years ago St. Thomas beat Augie in the elite eight and then went on to win it all.

I know that you're an Augie fan, but, as far as this "may be the game that makes a national champ" business is concerned, I wouldn't go there if I were you. The Whitman vs. Nebraska Wesleyan winner is going to have a lot to say about who cuts down the net in Salem -- and the most impressive performance I saw tonight was by Swarthmore.

Great point, Sager. I think the Final Four is going to be fantastic after what I saw tonight. And I have honestly felt nothing could top last year's event.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

How does the split role end up working out?

For many years Nebraska Wesleyan was a member of an NAIA conference in which every single school in the conference other than NWU gave athletic scholarships. While they regularly competed with scholarship schools while holding dual NAIA/NCAA membership, they always adhered to the NCAA philosophy regarding athletic scholarships, and never awarded them. Their thinking on this subject was one of the reasons they ultimately decided to rescind their NAIA affiliation, and attach solely to the NCAA.

Well to be honest, they HAD to adhere to the NCAA DIII philosophy and rules or they wouldn't have been allowed to retain membership and thus duality.

[Gregory Sager]

Others that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

So back to my comment about the Commonwealth... the SUNYAC has been very competitive from top to bottom most years. They do produce pretty good teams. Plattsburgh didn't look great tonight, but they are a better team than tonight showed. Plattsburgh also stopped one of the best offensive tandems in New England in the first round.

But again, I think the SUNYAC has for years had a very good conference from top to bottom. The top isn't the only metric I use (as I have shown). Sometimes just getting through conference play because of how good the bottom is is something to be considered. The SUNYAC hasn't been as strong the last few years and that's why I think it may not belong in the top ten now, but I feel it has been part of the conversation.

I agree with you to a certain degree, inasmuch as conferences are best measured top to bottom when sorted out as an aggregate whole within D3. That's always been my knock on the MIAA and the NCAC -- they were too top-heavy over long stretches of time, too plagued by lightweight, never-competitive programs at the bottom. The SUNYAC has great balance; it's much like the OAC in that regard, although I think that the OAC's pedigree is better.

But if you're going to be in the upper echelon -- i.e., the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and UAA -- you've got to produce in March. And the SUNYAC decidedly doesn't produce in March.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

It occurred to me this evening that the Elite Eight contains only FIVE ranked teams (from the last pre-tourney poll): #1, 9,14,19,24.  Did the pollsters have an off-week?  Have there been that many legitimate upsets?  Has parity gone stark-raving mad in D3?  I lean most heavily on the last option, but see some of each at work.  Comments?

It's that last part. It is why I have 40-50 schools I'm considering for my ballot each week.

I have four of the last eight on my ballot. The only ones I don't are Oshkosh, Ramapo, Springfield, and MIT... and all of them I considered, though MIT was a short thought considering they didn't have Jomard back.